• Monday, February 18, 2019

Saudi and French fighters get Familiar (F-15C vs Rafale)

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by Mosamania, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Mosamania

    Mosamania ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,171
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Ratings:
    +5 / 14,270 / -0
    Country:
    Saudi Arabia
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    Saudi and French fighters get Familiar
    [​IMG]
    A Royal Saudi Air Force F-15D Eagle at Nancy, France, for Green Shield 2014 (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    A Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) F-15C Eagle pilot looks outside his cockpit. He sees not the familiar sandy surroundings of Tabuk King Faisal Airbase in the Saudi desert, but the green scenery of Nancy Airbase in France. To his right is a green, delta shaped local bird. It’s an Armée de l’air Dassault Mirage 2000D, ready for take-off and for the combat search and rescue (CSAR) mission that follows. But the Saudi pilot is not alone, his wingman in another F-15C is readying himself for the same mission. This is exercise Green Shield 2014 in progress.

    On Monday 14 April it takes only a quick look at the fighter filled flightline of Base Aérienne 133 Nancy (Ochey) to notice the two participating countries in Green Shield 2014. Next to about a dozen French Dassult Mirages and Rafales stand six Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 Eagles. Four of the Saudis are C-model one-seaters, two being D-model two-seaters. Nearby, a group of Saudi personnel keeps watch over the aircraft, while they wait for pilots to show up for the next mission. Despite reasonable spring weather, the ground crew jokes about the cold. Judging by their clothing, they may actually mean it.

    [​IMG]
    Great ball of fire! French Air Force (Armée de l’Air) Mirage 2000D with serial 667 / code 133-JZ taking off
    (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    It’s a big operation for them”, says Nancy based Mirage 2000D pilot Pascal Leroux, involved in organizing Green Shield 2014. “The Saudi’s brought their fighters to Nancy together with 200 personnel, using their new Airbus A330 MRTT tanker/transport aircraft. A lot of planning was involved on their side, and ours as well. Nancy is not really suited for large exercises, but we made it work.”

    [​IMG]

    During our visit the French Air Force scrambled the dedicated Eurocopter EC725R2 Caracal for the Combat Search and Rescue mission (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    Earlier experience:
    There was luckily some experience to lean on. It’s the fourth time the French and Saudi’s train together. Earlier exercises were held in 2007 (Saudi Arabia), 2009 (Dijon, France) and 2012 (Saudi Arabia again). Leroux: “The goal is to train together and share experience in combined air operations. When the F-15s arrived here two weeks ago, we started training one-versus-one scenarios, using our Mirage 2000-5Fs as opponents. Gradually missions grew larger, as did the mission packages. Today, we fly a Combat Search and Rescue mission.”

    [​IMG]
    A Royal Saudi Air Force F-15C Eagle taking off from Nancy during Exercise Green Shield 2014 (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    Indeed, in the afternoon the sound of jet engines starting up is heard at Nancy. Two CSAR specialized EC-725 Caracal helicopters take off first. They are followed by several Mirage 2000Ds which have been calling Nancy ‘home’ for years. Then, two Saudi F-15s claim the 7,874 feet long runway, throttle up to 50,000 lbs of thrust and depart with full afterburner. A second pair does the same some time later. Meanwhile, Rafales and Mirage 2000 air defense fighters go airborne as well.

    [​IMG]
    The look of a killer: an Armée de l’Air Dassault Rafale B with code 113-FI (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    Killed:
    Two weeks into the exercise, the Saudis have grown into the Nancy environment and are giving the French a hard time. Camille Jolly, a weapons systems officer (‘wizzo’) from Nancy, flew against the Saudi pilots in the backseat of a Dassault Rafale B in the morning. “We were actually killed by them, but we did take out some of their aircraft too. I think the score was an equal 3-3.” According to Jolly the general goal of a Green Shield mission is to force a hole in air defenses by using offensive air, so that Mirage 2000D strike aircraft can move through to hit their targets


    [​IMG]

    The flightline of Nancy filled with Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 Eagles (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    Saudi Eagles:
    The RSAF has used the F-15C/D Eagles as an air defence fighter for years, acquiring 60 aircraft in the eighties and ordering nine more after that. The United States hastily supplied an additional 24 F-15Cs in 1990, after Iraq invaded neighbouring Kuwait. Some of those aircraft were seen at Nancy.

    Saudi Arabia has become a big user of the F-15, also buying 72 of the F-15S Strike Eagle version in 1993. Deliveries of another 84 new-build F-15SAs (Saudi Advanced) are set to run from 2015 until 2019. The SA-order is worth US$ 29.4 billion, making it one of the largest foreign military sales ever in US history.

    [​IMG]
    The Saudi Eagle jocks started their aerial combat in the skies over Nancy against this French Air Force Mirage 2000-5F (Image © Dennis Spronk)

    Involved:
    The ‘old’ F-15C/Ds performed well during Green Shield, Mirage pilot Pascal Leroux tells after the CSAR mission returns to base and the roar of aircraft engines has gone. “Green Shield was a success for everybody involved.”

    Over the last two weeks, fierce air wars have been fought out over Nancy, but it also sounds like friend were made. On Wednesday 16 April, dignitaries of both the French Air Force and the Royal Saudi Air Force will talk about a follow-up exercise. Leroux: “There will likely be another Green Shield in 2016, but then it will be us heading for Saudi Arabia.”

    © 2014 AIRheads’ editor Elmer van Hest

    WITH VIDEO: Saudi and French fighters get familiar
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Apparently Saudi pilots with our oldest Aircraft in service the F-15C/D went on in equal footing against the French Rafale, Care to know your input.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  2. AZADPAKISTAN2009

    AZADPAKISTAN2009 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    27,242
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Ratings:
    +35 / 25,395 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    China
    F15 appears so outdate vs Rafale not to mention probbaly have all low performance missiles as well

    And the F15 Look they have not been washed / cleaned or maintained for ages
     
  3. Mosamania

    Mosamania ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,171
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Ratings:
    +5 / 14,270 / -0
    Country:
    Saudi Arabia
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    The F-15C/Ds with the blue camo instead of the grey one has actually been received in the early 80s, the fact that it is still 40 years later kicking *** and going up equally against the Rafales is a credit to them and to their pilots. It wouldn't be flying now if it was not cleaned/ washed and maintained periodically.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  4. $even

    $even FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 7 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    :hitwall: India is about to spend 20B$ on an aircraft that can't beat a relic from the 80's
     
  5. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    11,809
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Ratings:
    +9 / 13,829 / -2
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Do Saudis think it a good idea to be spending billions buying the F-15 that originally came into service 40 years ago?
     
  6. kaykay

    kaykay ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,722
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Ratings:
    +3 / 10,441 / -4
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Don't take these exercises very seriously. Rafale has even beaten F22s according to a report but then on real life raptors will rape Rafale. And regarding Indian Rafales, they will be most advance variant so It's not wise to comment before knowing specifications of aircrafts used in this exercise and what systems they used like spectra and what kind of missions it was.
     
  7. Mosamania

    Mosamania ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,171
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Ratings:
    +5 / 14,270 / -0
    Country:
    Saudi Arabia
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    The F-15SA is a whole new Aircraft to the F-15C, or F-15E for that matter.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  8. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    15,900
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Ratings:
    +16 / 15,891 / -0
    Country:
    Canada
    Location:
    Canada
    The F-15 is still the supreme fighter of the skies after 40 years and much improvements and upgrades. The US will not engage in any war with the the F-22 alone, and without the F-15s accompanying them. They will be the real backbone of the USAF till at least 2025, and beyond with the Silent Eagles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  9. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    11,809
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Ratings:
    +9 / 13,829 / -2
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Do you think Saudi will go for F-35 or may see how the Chinese and Russian fifth generation fighters turn out?
     
  10. Mosamania

    Mosamania ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,171
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Ratings:
    +5 / 14,270 / -0
    Country:
    Saudi Arabia
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    Maybe to replace the Tornado fleet by 2020, F35 is already looked at by RSAF and will see how that goes.
     
  11. Sage

    Sage SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,048
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1,995 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    France
    F-15 SA or lethal machines ...specially their radars and agility ...I never found anything wrong with F-15 ever ...Big radar, big engines, big payload, big wings ...a true american work horse !
     
  12. TheNoob

    TheNoob SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,793
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2013
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,717 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    All that money you guys has.... @w@
     
  13. Akasa

    Akasa SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,920
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Ratings:
    +6 / 5,071 / -0
    Country:
    Canada
    Location:
    Canada
    Here's an option: buy the USAF Golden Eagle upgrade program, in which old F-15s would be retrofitted with AESA radar and more multirole changes. That would be benign to RSAF's budget yet it would be tremendously helpful in light of regional tension.
     
  14. Mugwop

    Mugwop PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Messages:
    5,699
    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Ratings:
    +5 / 7,544 / -2
    Country:
    Haiti
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Pilot skills also matter
     
  15. alimobin memon

    alimobin memon FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,819
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Ratings:
    +1 / 851 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    So that means F 15 of Saudi Arabian Air force being not as advanced as the American version which is obvious, "Who would sell the Complete F 15 like american air force's F 15 " is as good as twice the price jet ?