SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[waz]

I thought your profile picture was your pet cat. Now that I look closely I realised it's a big cat...

Big cat of Pakistan and the Himalayas. The snowy legend…

 

[Abid123]

Sir we cannot afford 150 J-35s. We had around 100 F-86s and now we have around 80 F-16s.

If we were to acquire J-35s it would be foolish to acquire more than 50.

I understand what you are trying to say. Looking at the our current situation we cannot afford it.

The thing is that we are most likely going to consider the J-35 at the end of this decade. That is a long time. We can easily get our economy back on track by that time.

"We had around 100 F-86s and now we have around 80 F-16s".

With all due respect sir the F-16 example is a poor one. We have 50+ F-16 on order which were never delivered. PAF had originally planned on having 150 F-16 if not for the arms embargo. We would be amongst the largest foreign F-16 operators along side Egypt, Turkey and Israel.

"If we were to acquire J-35s it would be foolish to acquire more than 50".

Only 50 5th generation for a air force the size of PAF? In any case the minimum number should be 100. 150 is the number for PAF needed to neutralize Indian air superiority.

The J-35 is expected to have a unit price of around 80 million USD. So 80x150= 12 billion USD. Spread that over a 10 year plan. If made a priority by the Pakistan armed forces it should not be a problem.

@Zarvan What do you think. How many units of the J-35 should the PAF induct?

 

[Zarvan]

I understand what you are trying to say. Looking at the our current situation we cannot afford it.

The thing is that we are most likely going to consider the J-35 at the end of this decade. That is a long time. We can easily get our economy back on track by that time.

"We had around 100 F-86s and now we have around 80 F-16s".

With all due respect sir the F-16 example is a poor one. We have 50+ F-16 on order which were never delivered. PAF had originally planned on having 150 F-16 if not for the arms embargo. We would be amongst the largest foreign F-16 operators along side Egypt, Turkey and Israel.

"If we were to acquire J-35s it would be foolish to acquire more than 50".

Only 50 5th generation for a air force the size of PAF? In any case the minimum number should be 100. 150 is the number for PAF needed to neutralize Indian air superiority.

The J-35 is expected to have a unit price of around 80 million USD. So 80x150= 12 billion USD. Spread that over a 10 year plan. If made a priority by the Pakistan armed forces it should not be a problem.

@Zarvan What do you think. How many units of the J-35 should the PAF induct?

You are worrying about J-35 you should also know we are also now partners in TFX project of Turkey. I have always maintained this that eventually we would have two types of 5th Generation Fighter jets at least. One from China and one from Turkey and we have only 80 F16 because US doesn't let us buy more. It's not that we want to remain limited to 80. US decides to give us 100 more F-16 BLOCK 72 without any stupid conditions trust me we would make the deal in no time.

 

[python-000]

 

[Abid123]

Good replacement for our F-16s.

 

[Syntage]

Good replacement for our F-16s.

Well, it feels good to think like that but we won't buy any 5th Gen aircraft until India does. Its been the history and strategy of folks in big offices.

 

[Abid123]

Well, it feels good to think like that but we won't buy any 5th Gen aircraft until India does. Its been the history and strategy of folks in big offices.

Makes sense. We can't compete with Indian air force in a arms race. India will probably induct 5th generation in the early 2030s.

We should get our economy back on track by that time. Have a functioning tax revenue system. So we could order and maintain a large number of them. 150 minimum.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Good replacement for our F-16s.

I do think PAF is looking towards both the TFX and J-3(X?)' s to replace the F16s. Do note the J-35 is the Naval version, there is no airforce derivative of the J-35 yet ..

The Turks are doing interesting things with their UCAVs/UAVs/EW systems and Turkey will supply the "absolute best" it has to Pakistan - there seems to be far fewer hangups about what Turkieye is prepared to sell to Pakistan.. China has always been relucant to give its "absolute" best - it only seems to sell systems 1 or 2 tiers below their absolute best that is given to their own services...

 

[Abid123]

I do think PAF is looking towards both the TFX and J-3(X?)' s to replace the F16s. Do note the J-35 is the Naval version, there is no airforce derivative of the J-35 yet ..

You are right. We are most likely going to induct two 5th generation fighters the TFX and J-35/J-31.

I am a little confused. Is the J-31/J-35 not the same prototype? Because China will make a land based 5th generation aimed at the export market.

Military Watch Magazine

militarywatchmagazine.com

 

[credence]

I do think PAF is looking towards both the TFX and J-3(X?)' s to replace the F16s. Do note the J-35 is the Naval version, there is no airforce derivative of the J-35 yet ..

The Turks are doing interesting things with their UCAVs/UAVs/EW systems and Turkey will supply the "absolute best" it has to Pakistan - there seems to be far fewer hangups about what Turkieye is prepared to sell to Pakistan.. China has always been relucant to give its "absolute" best - it only seems to sell systems 1 or 2 tiers below their absolute best that is given to their own services...

Not always this case. for example, VT-4 tank is much better than PLA best tank Type-99 , and J10CP is better PLA J10C.

 

[credence]

You are right. We are most likely going to induct two 5th generation fighters the TFX and J-35/J-31.

I am a little confused. Is the J-31/J-35 not the same prototype? Because China will make a land based 5th generation aimed at the export market.

Military Watch Magazine

militarywatchmagazine.com

different variants of the same prototypes, parts can be shared.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

CGI of the Chinese Underdevelopment J35

 

[Horse_Rider]

Hi i can’t understand why Chinese members all of a sudden think that j/31/35 is not for sale it’s not ,China top of the notch stealth like J20
USA too develop F35 instead of exporting F22 as their congress has put a ban at that time not to export F22 even to near & dear ally of USA which is Israel

Is buying J-31 making more sense? I have an alternative proposal and wanted to gauge interest / check logic here from senior members. Would it make sense to acquire J-10CE production line and build 100-150 jets under the brand of JF-17 block 4 with delta wings? (speaking long term here, not next year). The same line can later be used for maintenance / upgrades / rebuild and stealthy options from J-31 can start to be introduced to build expertise and industry on certain components and tech.

The same production line can later be enhanced to produce a stealthy version of the 5th gen J-10-JXX when we get to that stage by rebranding project AZM using J-31 or J-20's tech. This would save a lot of national expenditure and we'd have in-house capacity for building / maintaining our fleet of our top line jets.

Thoughts?

 

[MastanKhan]

Is buying J-31 making more sense? I have an alternative proposal and wanted to gauge interest / check logic here from senior members. Would it make sense to acquire J-10CE production line and build 100-150 jets under the brand of JF-17 block 4 with delta wings? (speaking long term here, not next year). The same line can later be used for maintenance / upgrades / rebuild and stealthy options from J-31 can start to be introduced to build expertise and industry on certain components and tech.

The same production line can later be enhanced to produce a stealthy version of the 5th gen J-10-JXX when we get to that stage by rebranding project AZM using J-31 or J-20's tech. This would save a lot of national expenditure and we'd have in-house capacity for building / maintaining our fleet of our top line jets.

Thoughts?

Hi,

That is f-'d up---

 

[Horse_Rider]

Hi,

That is f-'d up---

Care to go beyond "f-d up"? and help provide some details? I've read some of your posts lately. I don't know how much you know about setting up a manufacturing line, tech buildout for such applications, cost and localization / industry aspects of things as well as national expenditure being a country like Pakistan. Keep in mind, we now build majority of the JF-17 ourselves so aircrafts and tech aren't new to Pakistan anymore.