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Russians reluctantly embrace Chinese cars after Western brands depart

Viet

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they sound like cheap petrol cars mostly. guess EVs don't make much sense in Russia, even in China's northeast they require redundant heating for the battery in winter
EVs for Russia is like selling Mercedes to Cuba.
Those electric cars need a proper charging infrastructure. Otherwise worthless. Russia can’t do that nor the Russians can’t afford it. Unless Chinese jump in and do that for the Russians. Putin pays then in oil and gas.
Not so easy to build EV infra. Take EU, much smaller than Russia in size. EU now has about 400,000. now plans a charging station for every 60km highway. That will be millions of EV chargers. For Russia would mean ten of millions chargers. That’s unrealistic.

 

大汉奸柳传志

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EVs for Russia is like selling Mercedes to Cuba.
Those electric cars need a proper charging infrastructure. Otherwise worthless. Russia can’t do that nor the Russians can’t afford it. Unless Chinese jump in and do that for the Russians. Putin pays then in oil and gas.
Not so easy to build EV infra. Take EU, much smaller than Russia in size. EU now has about 400,000. now plans a charging station for every 60km highway. That will be millions of EV chargers. For Russia would mean ten of millions chargers. That’s unrealistic.

We have the same problem in Xinjiang and Tibet, too vast land, too small population. Cars sold there are still dominantly diesel/petrol when rest of the country already moved on with EVs
 

renhai

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LOL! 2022 was a bad year for GM but...

2022 Sales by Brand
  • Cadillac had sales of over 194,000 units in 2022. Demand for the CT5 luxury sedan remained strong, up 8.7% from a year earlier, sustaining its position as the brand’s top-selling model. The LYRIQ, which started deliveries in September, has been gaining in customer popularity.
  • Buick deliveries exceeded 644,000 units, led by the robust demand for its premium models. The Envision Plus midsize SUV had three-fold sales growth on an annual basis. The CENTURY flagship MPV was introduced to solidify the brand’s longstanding leadership in the segment. The VELITE NEV family also posted strong growth, with sales surging 73% year over year.
  • Chevrolet had deliveries of about 200,000 units last year. The brand continued to bolster its SUV offensive through the introduction of the all-new Seeker and Tracker RS. Sales of the Menlo EV more than doubled from a year earlier.
In 2022, Tesla delivered 439,770 vehicles in China, up 37.11 percent from 320,743 vehicles in 2021.

Look at which car was the #5 best selling car overall in China in 2022..not just EV's
screenshot_2023-01-22-00-21-56-731-edit_com-yiche-autoeasy-jpg.912375


Both the Tesla Model Y and Model 3 make it into the top selling EV list.
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Idiot Yankee. Tesla uses a BYD battery. lol
 

mike2000 is back

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Chinese cars are second to none. If the US didn't ban Chinese cars, American brand be facing big competition. In Australia Chinese cars are on the rise.

MG is a British brand that China bought a controlling stake in. Its like saying Jaguar land Rover is due to Indian technology. Lol India just bought a controlling stake in it. Almost all their tech, designs etc still done by Jaguar Land Rover in Britain.
The thing is very few Chineee auto indigenous brand has even successful overseas. In fact not even the Chinese themselves in Chin are fond of them. The Chinese legacy auto brands who eve manage to sell well in China itself had to rely on Western auto company's Joint ventures to do so. Reason all the major Chineee auto companies(especially the huge state owned ones) all have joint ventures (which the Chinese government forced western brands to partner with them and up their game/tech) in China with Chinese auto companies to be able to sell well in China.
The only truly indigenous Chinese car brand that I think had a Chance of making a good name for itself abroad is BYD. They have everything I think to succeed in China and the world. Remains to be seen how things will play for them thus coming years though. But I think they will be the one of the only main Chinese global car brand this coming year.


MOSCOW, March 24 (Reuters) - As the exodus of Western carmakers narrows options for Russian consumers, Chinese automakers are filling the gap, forcing Russians to overcome their reluctance to embrace Chinese brands and stomach higher prices.

Chinese brands such as Haval (601633.SS), Chery and Geely (0175.HK) now account for almost 40% of Russia's new car sales, data from analytical agency Autostat and consulting company PPK showed, up from less than 10% in January-February of 2022, pouncing on the opportunity left by the exit of firms such as Renault (RENA.PA), Nissan (7201.T) and Mercedes (MBGn.DE).

But there are teething problems. Reuters spoke to several Russian car buyers - individuals and dealerships - who perceived the quality of some Chinese cars to be lower than Western rivals and industry experts said Chinese manufacturers needed to enhance their reputation even as their market share soars.

Stepan, 28, who has increasingly driven Chinese cars when using carsharing services, is among those that need convincing. Among his complaints was the smoothness of the drive.

"I managed to buy a Skoda in 2022. If you want my honest opinion, the difference (with Chinese cars) is massive," he told Reuters at Moscow's Favorit Motors dealership.

Czech carmaker Skoda Auto, part of Volkswagen Group (VOWG_p.DE) and one of several Western automakers that had local car production, is in the final stages of a deal to sell its Russian assets in the wake of Western sanctions after Moscow despatched troops to Ukraine last February.

When buying his new Chinese car, Alexander, 74, looked for one which encompassed Swedish technology.

"I believe that in time the reliability will improve," he said. "For example, I know that (Geely) Tugella has a Volvo engine. This sold this car for me."

Russia's former president Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday after a visit to China in December that cooperation with Chinese manufacturers was good and consumers' perceptions were out of date.

"We used to laugh at some of their designs, but I went for a ride in a local car and looked at others," he said. "I'll say bluntly: the car I drove was certainly no worse than a Mercedes."

COMPETITION DRIES UP​


Most Western automakers, who have fought with domestic carmakers for market share since they began building factories in Russia in the early 2000s, ceased operations last spring.

"We've lived our whole lives focused on European, Japanese, American brands and did not especially take the Chinese market into account, which...has developed at an incredible rate," said Vladimir Shestak, general director of Altair-Auto in Vladivostok, whose dealership specialises in the Mercedes-Benz and Geely brands.

Though the majority of foreign firms have exited Russia or are in the process of leaving, lingering stocks and parallel imports mean some companies' cars remain on sale for now.

Domestic producer Avtovaz's Lada brand is Russia's most popular. Renault, through its former controlling stake in Avtovaz, had the highest market share among foreign producers before Russia began what it calls its "special military operation" in Ukraine.

While Chinese cars are increasingly filling the gap, the lack of reputation remains an issue, said auto industry expert Sergey Aslanyan.

"Yes, they have almost no competitors here anymore," he said. "But that does not mean that people will change their opinion quickly."

Chinese brands' market share reached 37.15% in January-February, up from 9.48% a year earlier, Autostat and PPK data showed. Sales of departing European, Japanese and Korean brands were down to 22.6% from 70%.

The sharp swing comes, however, amid plummeting sales of new cars, which slumped 58.8% in 2022 as lower living standards and a desire for Western-made vehicles caused people to reduce their spending and purchase more used cars.

In a sign of growing cooperation China's Haval is now producing cars locally, while in Moscow, the revived Soviet-era Moskvich is using engine parts, design and engineering from China's JAC.

But another gripe for consumers is the price. Even Medvedev said the Moskvich's price looked a little high. The model 3 costs around 2 million roubles ($26,195). Prices for the Lada Granta, Russia's most widely sold car, start at around 680,000 roubles.

"(The Chinese) are bringing in a lot of cars but if we talk about price, not quality, there are no cheap cars at all," said Maxim Kadakov, editor in chief of the "Behind the Wheel" magazine.

($1 = 76.3500 roubles)


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🤣

I think I can't blame the Russians. They don't have any other choice to be honest.
Anyway, I believe it's becasue their EV market isn't developed yet. Else I believe BYD will be doing well there. Nio is not bad as well.
 

Mav3rick

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LOL! What Chinese cars did we supposedly ban?
I think he meant in the future; as US banned Huawei because of how it was eating up US companies both in terms of its mobile phones and 5G. US effectively killed the Huawei mobile phone business. That's what he meant IMO, that unless the US sometime in the future decide to ban Chinese cars, the same Chinese cars will start outselling other brands pretty soon.
 

Genghis khan1

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Chinese cars are second to none. If the US didn't ban Chinese cars, American brand be facing big competition. In Australia Chinese cars are on the rise.

US will ban anything Chinese once it’s good enough to compete and threaten US companies. Like Huawei.
 

antonius123

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MG is a British brand that China bought a controlling stake in. Its like saying Jaguar land Rover is due to Indian technology. Lol India just bought a controlling stake in it. Almost all their tech, designs etc still done by Jaguar Land Rover in Britain.
The thing is very few Chineee auto indigenous brand has even successful overseas. In fact not even the Chinese themselves in Chin are fond of them. The Chinese legacy auto brands who eve manage to sell well in China itself had to rely on Western auto company's Joint ventures to do so. Reason all the major Chineee auto companies(especially the huge state owned ones) all have joint ventures (which the Chinese government forced western brands to partner with them and up their game/tech) in China with Chinese auto companies to be able to sell well in China.

No it is different. MG newest car majority is based on Chinese technology.

The engineering and technology used in the newest MG cars are primarily based on Chinese technology, as MG Motor is owned by SAIC Motor Corporation Limited, a Chinese automaker. However, MG cars also incorporate some British technology and engineering, as the company has a significant presence in the United Kingdom, and the MG Global Design Team is based there. In addition, some of the components and systems used in MG cars are sourced from suppliers around the world, so it's possible that some of the technology in MG cars has been developed outside of China and the UK. However, overall, the newest MG cars are primarily based on Chinese technology and engineering.
 

FuturePAF

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Anyway the fact is that China has found a gap and filled it. I love the Chinese business model.
The customer feedback will definitively force the Chinese brands to up their game or perish, especially in cold weather, where EV cars may suffer on performance, in general.

Japanese and South Korean cars had to overcome their earlier reputations. Chinese cars will do the same.

A lot will have to be invested in customer support for Russia to become a show case model for other countries to more willing adopt Chinese cars over other brands.

This could be the big break Chinese auto industry has been waiting for to increase global sales. Good customer service and build quality in comparison to other brands will be the deciding factor over the 10 years. From Russia, China could expand into Eastern Europe and Latin America, before trying to break into the “western” markets.
 
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MG is a British brand that China bought a controlling stake in. Its like saying Jaguar land Rover is due to Indian technology. Lol India just bought a controlling stake in it. Almost all their tech, designs etc still done by Jaguar Land Rover in Britain.
The thing is very few Chineee auto indigenous brand has even successful overseas. In fact not even the Chinese themselves in Chin are fond of them. The Chinese legacy auto brands who eve manage to sell well in China itself had to rely on Western auto company's Joint ventures to do so. Reason all the major Chineee auto companies(especially the huge state owned ones) all have joint ventures (which the Chinese government forced western brands to partner with them and up their game/tech) in China with Chinese auto companies to be able to sell well in China.
The only truly indigenous Chinese car brand that I think had a Chance of making a good name for itself abroad is BYD. They have everything I think to succeed in China and the world. Remains to be seen how things will play for them thus coming years though. But I think they will be the one of the only main Chinese global car brand this coming year.



I think I can't blame the Russians. They don't have any other choice to be honest.
Anyway, I believe it's becasue their EV market isn't developed yet. Else I believe BYD will be doing well there. Nio is not bad as well.

MG is not British. It is only a brand. Its platform, engine, transmission and all that is 100% Chinese. There is no British tech input.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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I think he meant in the future; as US banned Huawei because of how it was eating up US companies both in terms of its mobile phones and 5G. US effectively killed the Huawei mobile phone business. That's what he meant IMO, that unless the US sometime in the future decide to ban Chinese cars, the same Chinese cars will start outselling other brands pretty soon.

You can still buy some Huawei phone models in the US. The ban mostly has to do with behind the scenes telecommunications hardware.

I don't think Pakistan would be installing telecommunications systems built by India so I'm not sure why you are finding any difficulty understanding the ban.
 
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Hamartia Antidote

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Idiot Yankee. Tesla uses a BYD battery. lol
..and almost all Chinese phone brands use Qualcomm chips. LOL!

Apparently all your EV companies that are selling models below the #5 Tesla Model Y in that 2022 list are even bigger idiots. LOL!!!

Why is the Tesla Model Y #5 on your overall sales list..which obviously also includes gasoline cars...and it is the #2 when looking at just 100% EV cars (with #1 being some GM/SAIC venture)..even outselling all of BYD's 100% EV models. Why is China always the follower?

I thought China has over 100 car companies? The American Tesla Model Y outsold all but 4 of the models from all these Chinese auto companies? Shouldn't the Tesla Model Y be somewhere near 101? 🤔

Where is that innovation from millions of Chinese graduates????
 
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renhai

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Well apparently all your EV companies that are selling models below the #5 Tesla Model Y in that 2022 list are even bigger idiots. LOL!!!

Why is the Tesla Model Y #5 on your overall sales list..including gasoline cars...and it is the #2 when looking at 100% EV cars..even outselling all of BYD's 100% EV models.

Where is that innovation from millions of Chinese graduates?
Idiot Yankee. Tesla still loves BYD batteries. lol.

MG is a British brand that China bought a controlling stake in. Its like saying Jaguar land Rover is due to Indian technology. Lol India just bought a controlling stake in it. Almost all their tech, designs etc still done by Jaguar Land Rover in Britain.
The thing is very few Chineee auto indigenous brand has even successful overseas. In fact not even the Chinese themselves in Chin are fond of them. The Chinese legacy auto brands who eve manage to sell well in China itself had to rely on Western auto company's Joint ventures to do so. Reason all the major Chineee auto companies(especially the huge state owned ones) all have joint ventures (which the Chinese government forced western brands to partner with them and up their game/tech) in China with Chinese auto companies to be able to sell well in China.
The only truly indigenous Chinese car brand that I think had a Chance of making a good name for itself abroad is BYD. They have everything I think to succeed in China and the world. Remains to be seen how things will play for them thus coming years though. But I think they will be the one of the only main Chinese global car brand this coming year.



I think I can't blame the Russians. They don't have any other choice to be honest.
Anyway, I believe it's becasue their EV market isn't developed yet. Else I believe BYD will be doing well there. Nio is not bad as well.
But Tesla loves BYD batteries very much. Why do you have to anti-IQ first and then anti-China?
 

Hamartia Antidote

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Idiot Yankee. Tesla still loves BYD batteries. lol.

They are just one of like 5 companies that sell batteries to Tesla due to insane worldwide demand. It's not like they are the exclusive source. Meanwhile your top Smart Phone brands can't get enough of American chips.


The only truly indigenous Chinese car brand that I think had a Chance of making a good name for itself abroad is BYD. T

Yeah, and Warren Buffet spotted them back in 2008 and made a big investment that gave them some recognition..although they failed to deliver on their promises (because their tech wasn't ready)

14 years ago BTW

So how's the BYD 100% EV passenger car sales in Britain? Rest of Europe? North America? South America? LOL! Ever hear of Tesla 14 years ago?

Now Tesla is known for bringing EV cars worldwide and Elon Musk will get the blurb in the history books.
 
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