What's new

Russia to China: Together we can rule the world

donkeykong

FULL MEMBER
Mar 2, 2020
312
-2
499
Country
China
Location
Australia

Russia's President Vladimir Putin, left, walks with China's President Xi Jinping in Beijing | Greg Baker/AFP via Getty Images

THE COMING WARS

Russia to China: Together we can rule the world
Only Europe can prevent an Eastern bloc.

By BRUNO MAÇÃES

2/17/19, 6:00 AM CET


Updated 4/19/19, 1:17 AM CET

Europe’s obsession with Russia is unrequited. Moscow just isn’t interested in the Continent anymore.

It doesn’t care about European integration, or moving toward Europe. But neither is it interested in Europe’s predicted disintegration, or in pulling countries away from the West and closer to its way of thinking.

In the halls of the Kremlin these days, it’s all about China — and whether or not Moscow can convince Beijing to form an alliance against the West.

Russia’s obsession with a potential alliance with China was already obvious at the Valdai Discussion Club, an annual gathering of Russia’s biggest foreign policy minds, in 2017.

At their next meeting, late last year, the idea seemed to move from the speculative to something Russia wants to realize. And soon.

Russia’s view of China has shifted significantly over the past five years.

Every Russian speech — from obscure academics to Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian President Vladimir Putin himself — played that note and no other. There was even a new sense of desperation in the air.

As Sergey Karaganov, a former adviser to Putin, explained to me at breakfast, now everything must be about China.


Russia’s view of China has shifted significantly over the past five years. Moscow has abandoned any hope that the Chinese economy is an example it might emulate. Instead, foreign policy experts now talk of how Russia can use China to further its geopolitical goals.

There was no doubt at Valdai that China knows how to do economic growth, and that Russia does not. Russia’s elite — always so ready to resist any sign of Western hegemony — have no problem admitting China’s economic superiority. Their acceptance reminded me of the way Britain gave way to the United States as the world’s dominant economic power.


In the halls of the Kremlin these days, it’s all about China | Andreas Rentz/Getty Images

Seen from Moscow, there is no resistance left to a new alliance led by China. And now that Washington has imposed tariffs on Chinese exports, Russia hopes China will finally understand that its problem is Washington, not Moscow.

In the past, the possibility of an alliance between the two countries had been hampered by China’s reluctance to jeopardize its relations with the U.S. But now that it has already become a target, perhaps it will grow bolder. Every speaker at Valdai tried to push China in that direction.

When Putin finished a fireside chat with policymakers — a set-piece of the conference, where he fields softball questions from the audience — he made a gesture to leave the room, but then quickly rushed back to grab Yang Jiechi, a former Chinese foreign minister and arguably the main architect of the country’s foreign policy. He insisted on walking out with Yang by his side, to the obvious delight of his Chinese guest.

But what happens now? Can Russia and China really be friends, and for how long?

The thing to remember is that both countries are obsessed with overturning the American-led global order. They may have a long history of geopolitical rivalry — one that is sure to return once their goal is achieved and new poles emerge, pitting them against each other.

But they’ll cross that bridge when they get there, maybe in another 20 years or so. For now, Russia and China are essentially on the same side.

For the moment, Chinese prudence remains the great obstacle to the new alliance. And Russians know this.

This alliance, if it becomes concrete, would overturn how we do global politics. Imagine an international crisis in which Russia and China suddenly emerge as a single bloc. The impact would be considerable, and to some extent unpredictable: Psychologically, in the mind of the West, it would combine the fear associated with Russia with the apparent invulnerability of China. Washington would feel under attack; Europe, intimidated and unsettled.

The old Continent would also face the threat of a split between Western Europe and the nations of Central and Eastern Europe, which could turn their focus east under the influence of a cash-happy China ready to invest in the region.

It would be an entirely new world, and it’s one that is coming closer to becoming reality.

For the moment, Chinese prudence remains the great obstacle to the new alliance. And Russians know this.


Sergey Karaganov, a former adviser to Vladimir Putin | Soeren Stache/AFP via Getty Images

I met Karaganov again at a meeting with Chinese officials and think tankers in Beijing a few weeks ago. There, a number of Chinese participants said they doubted Russia’s assertions that the world is in the midst of a new Cold War.

Karaganov dedicated himself to convincing them otherwise, arguing with increasing passion that China is deluding itself if it thinks issues between Beijing and Washington can be conveniently resolved to the benefit of both sides.

If Beijing places its bets on peace and cooperation, the great Chinese adventure will come to an end, and China will have to live in the shadow of the U.S. for another generation — perhaps forever, Karaganov said. Chinese authorities, he argued, have no more than five years to make a decision.

The meeting was held under the Chatham House rule, so unfortunately, I cannot report on what the response from the Chinese side was; only Karaganov allowed me to relay his words.


At this point, can U.S.-China relations be salvaged? | Fred Dufour/AFP via Getty Images

But from my own separate conversations, Chinese officials appear to agree the clock is ticking. They’re just not yet convinced they should choose war — even a Cold War.

But if China has a word on whether we see the creation of an Eastern bloc, so does Europe.

European markets and European technology are critical resources for China. More and more, Chinese authorities know what to expect from America, and they know all too well what to expect from Russia. But Europe is a different matter. Beijing will hesitate to push it away, and will wait for Europeans to make up their minds.

We can keep them waiting. We can keep them pondering. In a dangerous world, Europe is the holder of the balance.

Bruno Maçães, a former Europe minister for Portugal, is a senior adviser at Flint Global in London and a nonresident senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington. His book “The Dawn of Eurasia” was published by Penguin last year.



Authors:
Bruno Maçães
 

donkeykong

FULL MEMBER
Mar 2, 2020
312
-2
499
Country
China
Location
Australia
Russia has been begging for China to join an Alliance with them but the only reason China hasn't was because of their relationship with America. With America now trying to throw that relationship in the toilet, there is no doubt China and Russia will join hands as a united front.
 

Yankee-stani

ELITE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2018
8,018
1
12,085
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Russia has been begging for China to join an Alliance with them but the only reason China hasn't was because of their relationship with America. With America now trying to throw that relationship in the toilet, there is no doubt China and Russia will join hands as a united front.
Trump original strategy was to use Russia against China but deep state wont let it happen and Russian leadership basically despises the US ever since both Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014 had those color revolts
 

MayaBazar

BANNED
May 14, 2020
710
-13
392
Country
India
Location
United States

Russia's President Vladimir Putin, left, walks with China's President Xi Jinping in Beijing | Greg Baker/AFP via Getty Images

THE COMING WARS

Russia to China: Together we can rule the world
Only Europe can prevent an Eastern bloc.

By BRUNO MAÇÃES

2/17/19, 6:00 AM CET


Updated 4/19/19, 1:17 AM CET

Europe’s obsession with Russia is unrequited. Moscow just isn’t interested in the Continent anymore.

It doesn’t care about European integration, or moving toward Europe. But neither is it interested in Europe’s predicted disintegration, or in pulling countries away from the West and closer to its way of thinking.

In the halls of the Kremlin these days, it’s all about China — and whether or not Moscow can convince Beijing to form an alliance against the West.

Russia’s obsession with a potential alliance with China was already obvious at the Valdai Discussion Club, an annual gathering of Russia’s biggest foreign policy minds, in 2017.

At their next meeting, late last year, the idea seemed to move from the speculative to something Russia wants to realize. And soon.

Russia’s view of China has shifted significantly over the past five years.

Every Russian speech — from obscure academics to Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian President Vladimir Putin himself — played that note and no other. There was even a new sense of desperation in the air.

As Sergey Karaganov, a former adviser to Putin, explained to me at breakfast, now everything must be about China.


Russia’s view of China has shifted significantly over the past five years. Moscow has abandoned any hope that the Chinese economy is an example it might emulate. Instead, foreign policy experts now talk of how Russia can use China to further its geopolitical goals.

There was no doubt at Valdai that China knows how to do economic growth, and that Russia does not. Russia’s elite — always so ready to resist any sign of Western hegemony — have no problem admitting China’s economic superiority. Their acceptance reminded me of the way Britain gave way to the United States as the world’s dominant economic power.


In the halls of the Kremlin these days, it’s all about China | Andreas Rentz/Getty Images

Seen from Moscow, there is no resistance left to a new alliance led by China. And now that Washington has imposed tariffs on Chinese exports, Russia hopes China will finally understand that its problem is Washington, not Moscow.

In the past, the possibility of an alliance between the two countries had been hampered by China’s reluctance to jeopardize its relations with the U.S. But now that it has already become a target, perhaps it will grow bolder. Every speaker at Valdai tried to push China in that direction.

When Putin finished a fireside chat with policymakers — a set-piece of the conference, where he fields softball questions from the audience — he made a gesture to leave the room, but then quickly rushed back to grab Yang Jiechi, a former Chinese foreign minister and arguably the main architect of the country’s foreign policy. He insisted on walking out with Yang by his side, to the obvious delight of his Chinese guest.

But what happens now? Can Russia and China really be friends, and for how long?

The thing to remember is that both countries are obsessed with overturning the American-led global order. They may have a long history of geopolitical rivalry — one that is sure to return once their goal is achieved and new poles emerge, pitting them against each other.

But they’ll cross that bridge when they get there, maybe in another 20 years or so. For now, Russia and China are essentially on the same side.

For the moment, Chinese prudence remains the great obstacle to the new alliance. And Russians know this.

This alliance, if it becomes concrete, would overturn how we do global politics. Imagine an international crisis in which Russia and China suddenly emerge as a single bloc. The impact would be considerable, and to some extent unpredictable: Psychologically, in the mind of the West, it would combine the fear associated with Russia with the apparent invulnerability of China. Washington would feel under attack; Europe, intimidated and unsettled.

The old Continent would also face the threat of a split between Western Europe and the nations of Central and Eastern Europe, which could turn their focus east under the influence of a cash-happy China ready to invest in the region.

It would be an entirely new world, and it’s one that is coming closer to becoming reality.

For the moment, Chinese prudence remains the great obstacle to the new alliance. And Russians know this.


Sergey Karaganov, a former adviser to Vladimir Putin | Soeren Stache/AFP via Getty Images

I met Karaganov again at a meeting with Chinese officials and think tankers in Beijing a few weeks ago. There, a number of Chinese participants said they doubted Russia’s assertions that the world is in the midst of a new Cold War.

Karaganov dedicated himself to convincing them otherwise, arguing with increasing passion that China is deluding itself if it thinks issues between Beijing and Washington can be conveniently resolved to the benefit of both sides.

If Beijing places its bets on peace and cooperation, the great Chinese adventure will come to an end, and China will have to live in the shadow of the U.S. for another generation — perhaps forever, Karaganov said. Chinese authorities, he argued, have no more than five years to make a decision.

The meeting was held under the Chatham House rule, so unfortunately, I cannot report on what the response from the Chinese side was; only Karaganov allowed me to relay his words.


At this point, can U.S.-China relations be salvaged? | Fred Dufour/AFP via Getty Images

But from my own separate conversations, Chinese officials appear to agree the clock is ticking. They’re just not yet convinced they should choose war — even a Cold War.

But if China has a word on whether we see the creation of an Eastern bloc, so does Europe.

European markets and European technology are critical resources for China. More and more, Chinese authorities know what to expect from America, and they know all too well what to expect from Russia. But Europe is a different matter. Beijing will hesitate to push it away, and will wait for Europeans to make up their minds.

We can keep them waiting. We can keep them pondering. In a dangerous world, Europe is the holder of the balance.

Bruno Maçães, a former Europe minister for Portugal, is a senior adviser at Flint Global in London and a nonresident senior fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington. His book “The Dawn of Eurasia” was published by Penguin last year.



Authors:
Bruno Maçães

Russia: Together we can rule the world

China: We can rule the world on our own

Trump original strategy was to use Russia against China but deep state wont let it happen and Russian leadership basically despises the US ever since both Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine in 2014 had those color revolts
US & China are part of the G2. They will not allow anyone else at the high table.
 

TNT

SENIOR MEMBER
Jun 2, 2019
3,721
-1
5,835
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
A clear alliance with russia will limit china. China have good relations with Europe and would not want to sacrifice that. Also russia is close to India, which China notes carefully.
 

Yankee-stani

ELITE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2018
8,018
1
12,085
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
A clear alliance with russia will limit china. China have good relations with Europe and would not want to sacrifice that. Also russia is close to India, which China notes carefully.
Things aren't really binary in geo politics I mean China has pretty good economic ties with India as well,as for Europe I think they want cordial ties with Moscow it's just the US holds the strings there
 

IblinI

SENIOR MEMBER
Jun 21, 2016
3,033
1
5,994
Country
China
Location
New Zealand
A clear alliance with russia will limit china. China have good relations with Europe and would not want to sacrifice that. Also russia is close to India, which China notes carefully.
You are right, forming up an alliance means you are pushing away other.
 

PakFactor

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 30, 2019
3,593
2
6,268
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Still I think Russia needs China more than China needs Russia
I agree, Russia's future lies with China, as we've seen Europeans limit what Russians can and can't do greatly. Russia needs to look East, throughout it's history it's been treated like a boy on the fringes in there relations with Europe, never really accepted.
 

TNT

SENIOR MEMBER
Jun 2, 2019
3,721
-1
5,835
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Things aren't really binary in geo politics I mean China has pretty good economic ties with India as well,as for Europe I think they want cordial ties with Moscow it's just the US holds the strings there
They never are, its a complex balancing act. As far as Europe is concerned, i think you are mistaken. Europeans actually dont like russia, even many eastern europeans are very anti russia due to their history. European members here can comment on it.
As about india, business is one thing and strategic ties are another. The US is prepping india openly against China. We may make fun of india but the US sees potential in india to be a bullwark against china. This coupled with russian indian relations would compel china to have a balancing act with russia.
 

IblinI

SENIOR MEMBER
Jun 21, 2016
3,033
1
5,994
Country
China
Location
New Zealand
Still I think Russia needs China more than China needs Russia
Don't wanna lose anyone,let alone a big power like Russia.. both countries are working together on many strategic projects, e.g. Building up early warning coverage for ballistic missile defence over both coutries.
 

Yankee-stani

ELITE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2018
8,018
1
12,085
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
They never are, its a complex balancing act. As far as Europe is concerned, i think you are mistaken. Europeans actually dont like russia, even many eastern europeans are very anti russia due to their history. European members here can comment on it.
As about india, business is one thing and strategic ties are another. The US is prepping india openly against China. We may make fun of india but the US sees potential in india to be a bullwark against china. This coupled with russian indian relations would compel china to have a balancing act with russia.
Eastern Europe is a doormat and source of cheap labor I am aware of historical dislike of Poles towards Russia and other Eastern Europeans but who hold the strings of the EU its Germany and France they are the political and economic juggernaut of the continent and Germany is much more cordial towards Russia heck even Macron since taking the healm of the French Presidency is more in favor of cooperation or at least balanced attitude towards Russia

I agree, Russia's future lies with China, as we've seen Europeans limit what Russians can and can't do greatly. Russia needs to look East, throughout it's history it's been treated like a boy on the fringes in there relations with Europe, never really accepted.
As long as the US controls the Security and geo politics through NATO yes but as US power diminishes I see the large regional countries like France and Germany having a balanced relations with Moscow in conjunction with China increasing influence in Europe
 

Nasr

FULL MEMBER
Dec 9, 2018
1,999
3
3,623
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
With America having close 1000 military installations around the world, invading free/independent countries, killings hundreds of thousands of innocent people, actively funding/supporting/arming/training/directing terrorist organizations in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia .... imposing criminal economic sanctions on countries that choose to be independent in their foreign and trade policies. Brazenly attempting to provoke countries like Venezuela, Russia, China into war.

I struggled to stop laughing at the utterly retarded, hysterically absurd and obsessively fixated reporting by Western Mainstream Media, on Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran or any other country which may oppose the Zionist owned, American hegemony. Politico has to be the worst, most ridiculous and laughable news outlet to the world of journalism. A high paid prostitute of their Zionist masters.
 

Tai Hai Chen

BANNED
Oct 15, 2017
17,139
-12
7,669
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Russia has been begging for China to join an Alliance with them but the only reason China hasn't was because of their relationship with America. With America now trying to throw that relationship in the toilet, there is no doubt China and Russia will join hands as a united front.
Russia rules the north. China rules the south. US is on a remote New World place. US has bad geography compared to Russia and China. Eurasia has always been the main part of the world. Americas is a remote place.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom