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Russia Close to a Massive Deal to Supply 5th Generation Fighters to India

Abingdonboy

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35 billion for 154 fighters ?

someone help break it down please..

@Abingdonboy
Honestly my friend, there is no point in going down that rabbit hole right now- fighter unit cost is notoriously long winded and complex but in the FGFA's case it would be FAR more given the nature of the deal (JVs, shared development costs, joint production etc). Right now there is no solid agreement, we can't know how much this deal will actually cost nor do we know the exact number of fighters to be procured.

154 seems to be a reasonable number but remember the amount of follow-on orders for MKIs, this figure will not be fixed and thus the costs will become that bit more intangible.

Let the final agreement be announced, let it be inked and let the FGFA production begin- until then it is absolutely pointless to speculate in my opinion. It might actually be a CAG report in the mid to late 2020s that gives us the most accurate unit cost and even that would have to be contextualised (factoring in development, life-cycle and production costs).
 

sathya

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Don't know how close is this close...

Reports 35 billion $ for rafale deal
Mis reports 35 billion $ deal in next UK visit
Reports 35 billion $ deal for Pak Fa

150 billion $ for railways investment
1 lakh crore for Bihar
80000 crore for J&k

Damn how rich are we ?

No body can beat this Business group promises.
 

Abingdonboy

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Mis reports 35 billion $ deal in next UK visit
Really? What kind of deals with the UK amount to such a figure? The Hawk deal is only around $1BN and there don't seem to be any others on the table between India and the UK.

150 billion $ for railways investment
Spread over 4 years.
Reports 35 billion $ for rafale deal
Not a concrete figure- seems very inflated in all honesty.

Reports 35 billion $ deal for Pak Fa
Again, not a credible figure and hard to calculate anyway given the nature of the FGFA (JV and such).

Either way all large defence deals (>$3BN or so) are paid out over a period of at least a decade and with India's economy adding hundreds of Billions of USD to its GDP and taxation revenues increasing by tens of billions year on year this is perfectly plausible.

1 lakh crore for Bihar
80000 crore for J&k
The devil always lies in the detail.
 

sathya

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Really? What kind of deals with the UK amount to such a figure? The Hawk deal is only around $1BN and there don't seem to be any others on the table between India and the UK.


Spread over 4 years.

Not a concrete figure- seems very inflated in all honesty.


Again, not a credible figure and hard to calculate anyway given the nature of the FGFA (JV and such).

Either way all large defence deals (>$3BN or so) are paid out over a period of at least a decade and with India's economy adding hundreds of Billions of USD to its GDP and taxation revenues increasing by tens of billions year on year this is perfectly plausible.


The devil always lies in the detail.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi is keen to expand an order for BAE Systems (BAES.L) Hawk training aircraft to revive India’s aerobatic display team when he visits Britain this week, government sources said on Monday.Sources familiar with the talks say Modi wants to buy an extra 20 Hawk Mk132s, worth $400-$450 million, on top of existing orders already made for 123 of the single-engine, jet-powered trainers.

During the first bilateral visit by an Indian prime minister since 2006, Modi will on Thursday witness a fly-past over London by the Red Arrows, the Royal Air Force display team that also flies Hawks.

Diplomats say that during his visit, India and Britain could strike deals worth 8-12 billion pounds ($12-$18 billion), although details remain sketchy.

If ordered, the new planes would make it possible to revive the Indian Air Force’s Surya Kiran (Sun Ray) aerobatic team that has been borrowing Hawks from the training squadrons after its own planes were retired from service.

One stumbling block is that Modi wants the extra planes to be manufactured by local partner Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), but this is not yet possible because of delays to a new defence procurement policy, one defence source said.

India bought a first batch of 66 Hawks in 2004, 24 of which were delivered in fly-away condition and the remainder made at HAL’s plant in Bengaluru. A second batch in 2010 of 57 planes is still under production.

BAE Systems declined to comment.


Haha ha..

It's 12-18 billion $, and deal could be signed.

I too could have exaggerated a bit.
 

Abingdonboy

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The Hawk deal will be signed- there is no question about it, it is more a case of when not if. The IAF ACM has already resurrected the SKAT albeit with the capacity to only fly 4 ship displays. The ACM has officially stated the SKAT will return to their 9 ship team (thus requiring 20 Hawks) by the next Aero India (2017).

Diplomats say that during his visit, India and Britain could strike deals worth 8-12 billion pounds ($12-$18 billion), although details remain sketchy.
Other than that I don't know what this $12-18 billion figure could possibly be made up of- it certainly doesn't relate to any additional defence deals (the Hawks are about the sum of defence deals between India and the UK these days), perhaps some further investment in the DMIC? Even $5 billion seems ambitious- let alone 12-18!


@JanjaWeed @hinduguy @Bang Galore @anant_s @Koovie any ideas?
 

Bang Galore

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Other than that I don't know what this $12-18 billion figure could possibly be made up of- it certainly doesn't relate to any additional defence deals (the Hawks are about the sum of defence deals between India and the UK these days), perhaps some further investment in the DMIC? Even $5 billion seems ambitious- let alone 12-18!
I would guess that would not necessarily be connected to defence alone.
 

skyisthelimit

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Is $ 35 billion including spares, armaments, maintenance and everything?

How much does it end up per piece?
 

Grevion

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The problem with the Sukhoi/HAL PMF is that India wants a deal like the 30mki which was not possible because when we opted for sukhoi 30mki it was a matured fighter while PAK FA is still developing and evolving.
Russia wanted India as a development partner to invite more investment and share development cost which we should have done rather then looking for an another deal like sukhoi 30mki.
 

Abingdonboy

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Interesting that the M777 will be discussed when he visits the UK (home of BAE) and not when he visited the US (where the original 145 gun deal was on offer from as part of a FMS). This pretty much confirms the speculation that he/the GoI is looking for some sort of local production of the M777 and not a simple off the shelf purchase.

The problem with the Sukhoi/HAL PMF is that India wants a deal like the 30mki which was not possible because when we opted for sukhoi 30mki it was a matured fighter while PAK FA is still developing and evolving.
Russia wanted India as a development partner to invite more investment and share development cost which we should have done rather then looking for an another deal like sukhoi 30mki.
I don't think this is quite accurate mate. By all accounts the issues with the FGFA are that India isn't happy with the amount of development contribution it will be allowed to make despite the fact it will have to burden 50% of such costs. From the outset the GoI was looking to use this deal to extract industrial benefits (specifically on the development side) for Indian firms.

The largest problem for the PAK-FA/FGFA is that Russia is facing extensive economic troubles that means it is unable to devout too many resources to this project on the level previously imagined.
 

MST

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Don't know how close is this close...

Reports 35 billion $ for rafale deal
Mis reports 35 billion $ deal in next UK visit
Reports 35 billion $ deal for Pak Fa

150 billion $ for railways investment
1 lakh crore for Bihar
80000 crore for J&k

Damn how rich are we ?

No body can beat this Business group promises.
Zero Money for Bihar now. Nitish Kumar said he doesn't need any money from Center. So we will now use Bihar money to buy PAKFA.
 

sathya

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Zero Money for Bihar now. Nitish Kumar said he doesn't need any money from Center. So we will now use Bihar money to buy PAKFA.

I think policy is, natural resources obtained from a state will receive the benefit in its entirety
Bihar is rich in minerals , will benefit the most.
 

MST

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I think policy is, natural resources obtained from a state will receive the benefit in its entirety
Bihar is rich in minerals , will benefit the most.
Sorry but you seem to forget that Jharkhand is a seperate state now. And all minerals went to to Jharkhand.
Bihar has zero minerals, zero industry and hence zero source of income. But somehow Nitishji will generate 2.25 Lakh Crores and Bihar will be the most developed State...soon.
 

sathya

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Sorry but you seem to forget that Jharkhand is a seperate state now. And all minerals went to to Jharkhand.
Bihar has zero minerals, zero industry and hence zero source of income. But somehow Nitishji will generate 2.25 Lakh Crores and Bihar will be the most developed State...soon.
You can divide these amount by 3, another 2 shares for lalu and congress.

Bihar may have lost the opportunity for the change .

BJP got 50 odd seats, if they perform well., they can try next time.
 

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