• Wednesday, January 29, 2020

Rolls-Royce touts ‘world-first’ engine tech for Tempest

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by Anupurba, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Anupurba

    Anupurba FULL MEMBER

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    Gareth Jennings, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
    10 January 2020
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    Rolls-Royce is developing what it terms to be “world-first" technology for the Tempest future fighter, seen at the Farnborough Airshow 2018 with the unveiling of a full-scale mockup. Source: Jane's/Patrick Allen
    UK aerospace engine manufacturer Rolls-Royce is developing "world-first" technology for the Tempest future fighter project, the company announced on 10 January.

    The effort, which has to date been running for five years, is geared towards managing "unprecedented levels of electrical power demand and thermal load … within the context of a stealthy aircraft." The goal is to provide both the thrust to propel the aircraft and the electrical power required for all the systems, while managing the resulting thermal loads.

    According to Rolls-Royce, the Tempest effort builds on earlier work to address future aircraft power demands. In 2014 it designed an electrical starter-generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator (E2SG) demonstrator programme.

    "The electrical embedded starter-generator will save space and provide the large amount of electrical power required by future fighters. Existing aircraft engines generate power through a gearbox underneath the engine, which drives a generator. In addition to adding moving parts and complexity, the space required outside the engine for the gearbox and generator makes the airframe larger, which is undesirable in a stealthy platform," Conrad Banks, Chief Engineer for Future Programmes at Rolls-Royce was quoted as saying.

    As Rolls-Royce explained, the two-spool-mounted electrical machines enable, by combination of operation as either a motor or a generator, the production of a series of functional effects on the engine, including the transfer of power electrically between the two spools.

    Phase two of the E2SG programme, launched in 2017, has now been adopted as part of Rolls-Royce's contribution to the Tempest programme. This phase saw the inclusion of a second electrical generator connected to the other spool of the engine. It also included an energy storage system in the electrical network and the ability to intelligently manage the supply of power between all these systems.
     
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  2. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    Yep Tempest will be one of the two best fighter aircraft when it comes out in the mid-2030s along with whatever the US brings into service.

    The Franco-German plane will be 2nd rate compared to this as they are no match for UK in fighter aircraft technology as the UK is ahead in both engine and stealth tech(F-35 experience). I expect the Chinese 6th generation plane to be also on the same level as the Franco-German effort.


    So in the 2030s the best fighters will be:

    1. USA = UK
    2. France/Germany = China
    3. All the rest like Turkey, Russia, Korea/Indonesia etc.
     
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  3. StormBreaker

    StormBreaker FULL MEMBER

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    You are a nice fortune teller :-)
     
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  4. dBSPL

    dBSPL FULL MEMBER

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    I don't know what criteria and data create such sorting like above. But I completely disagree.
     
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  5. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    Ok, explain why my reasoning is not logical?
     
  6. StormBreaker

    StormBreaker FULL MEMBER

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    I tell you bro, it’s magic and fortune telling

    Dear @UKBengali , no offense buddy,

    The predictions you made are on least to none data.

    Even though what you suggested is quite a possibility given the time and experience the ones in the west and europe are putting on 6th gen, one can not ignore China as China has foot on accelerator and it isn’t pressed fully just yet !!!

    Given the burns US is getting over chinese reducing the tech gap, one can wait till at least 2030-32 to actually come to a conclusion of Ranking them.

    I am pretty sure China will surprise the US after US surprises the world.

    Rest can be whatever they want to.

    @dBSPL I don’t think Turkey would near the top 6 list with TF-X which is quite late and that Turkey is just learning right now. Turkey can be good but not great anytime soon :-):-)

    No offense

    Now don’t go on calling me some AntiTurk troll because i am NOT !!!

    Thats a critic review
     
  7. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    I disagree. You are wishing for too much from China

    Chinese engine tech is currently even behind Russia . I predict they will reach the level of France/Germany combined by the mid-2030s which is a massive jump actually. They will also match those two in radar in avionics and maybe be a little better in stealth tech as they already have J-20 in service and have been playing with J-31 for years. China may just be a little better than France/Germany by the mid-2030s but it is not going to be too much.

    As for Turkey, their fighter will have a lot of foreign tech in it like engines and some other areas - a bit like Gripen now and so reasonable to conclude that they will be down in the 3rd Tier with the likes of Russia and Korea/Indonesia. Korea/Indonesia will also rely on foreign tech for engines and some other areas.

    US will most likely be a little ahead of UK but not enough to say they have any appreciable superiority. Rankings I gave are the most likely outcomes with the data we have now and it is only for fun anyway and no-one needs to take this too seriously.
     
  8. StormBreaker

    StormBreaker FULL MEMBER

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    I respect your opinion, but the core dynamics change would be transfer of important information to china and vice versa.

    China has shares in a Ukrainian, Ex-Soviet Engine designing and manufacturing plant and has workforce working there most probably. Although, this doesn’t help china much but it does help them much.

    Why ?

    Russia has been struggling with its supposed engine for T-50 which isn’t ready yet, and russia is far ahead than ukraine in the field.

    Meanwhile, China took sometime, studied on russian engines to develop WS-15 type heavy thrust engines (You should definitely check out this beast of an engine) and if it gets more info, it will blend it with its existing info and experience.

    Anything is possible although i would put china on the 30 side on a balance of 30-70 (USA 70).

    China doesn’t know F-22 inside out yet and USA only knows the true capabilities and development procedure of Raptors so one can count this as a point that China is lagging behind.

    Many people even question the coating of J-20 as to being an exterior coating or something that is forced into microscopic holes of the airframe body.

    I am not defending china here neither am i opposing others, just my thinking.
     
  9. dBSPL

    dBSPL FULL MEMBER

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    WTH? Bro, it's not even clear whats your sort criteria are. I need to see your arguments to answer your question.

    Does the UK now have the ability to run a sustainable warplane program, alone and fully with domestic resources? What makes you think that Britain will be a few levels ahead of China in 20 years? Fancy CGIs?

    The Team Tempest's project is still in conceptual design. We do not even know if it will be produced yet. If you do a little research on European aviation history, you can see that this is a danger that should not be underestimated. However, a successful press information activity is being carried out to strengthen its commercial chances.

    Aviation is currently undergoing significant changes, unmanned elements and AI decision support systems, a new generation of countermeasures and navigation technologies, dozens of sub-headings in many projects and ideas are being tried or integration process has begun. What I do not understand is that the capabilities that are said to exist under the Tempest project will only remain on this plane. Moreover, it seems you think that the activities of other countries will remain in their current state. You forget this is an endless race. And in this race, we don't think that some of the new emerging actors who have managed to create its qualified manpower, academic infrastructure and industrial structure from the last 30-40 years are coming more powerful than traditional suppliers.

    30 years ago, China was a country that received technology support from Russia and had to tackle some the shortcomings of its aviation industry. Today, China outperforms Russia in many aviation sub-production areas and sub-material technology. If we are predicting the future, one of the criteria should be these trend processes. The UK industrial structure reached its peak years ago, and China has not yet seen its peak.

    That have same logic what wrote by dear UkBengali. And you're making same mistake while claim others as fortune teller... The issue here is not Turkey, and I also have not had such a claim. However, I recommend that you do not speak as an authority on matters you do not have sufficient knowledge of.
     
  10. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    The Tempest now has the following 3 nations - UK, Italy and Sweden. Not only does Sweden bring in another buyer(although likely not more than 50 planes) they also bring in excellent network centric warfare skills and fighter design skills in general. Italy would be mostly playing the part of buyer as their tech is 2nd rate.
    We can safely say that the UK + Italy + Sweden between themselves will be able to fund the development of the Tempest.

    While I wish Turkey well, it just does not have the required base tech and experience to make their fighter anything more than at the 3rd level I mentioned and that would be with foreign engines and some other tech - although the Turkish 5th gen fighter would end up with more Turkish content than the Gripen has now.

    As for China I have already factored their progress in and so put them higher than they are right now - one level behind US/UK. You still need to go through a few generations of aircraft to be able to make the leap upwards and just throwing lots of money and engineers at something is not enough.
     
  11. Umar27

    Umar27 FULL MEMBER

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