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Ripe for revolution?

klklkl

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Oct 11, 2009
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There is no alternative to democracy when it comes to allround development of the people and their happiness. Do you have a system in mind which is better than democracy?
What has religion got to do with democracy?
Religion has everything to do with Democracy. Both Democracy and Religion have never been part of the Indian philosophy. In fact India never had a religion. The British put the word religion in Indian dictionary and gave the name as Hindus to the people living here. The people living from Afghanistan to Kanyakumari had a set of common culture, tolerance, respect for diverse attitudes (including religion) and political and social life. The West merely labelled the people of these into a single sect or group.

My solution of India is the concept of Bharat Tantra which is what Gandhiji wanted to be for India. Unfortunately he was killed before he could accomplish his goal.

Bharat Tantra works in the following manner. This Bharat Tantra can work for the entire south Asia region including Pakistan, Bangladesh and Aghanistan.



Military and defense systems and technology

Central Command: No concept of overall central command. All powers is distributed at the Local levels mostly at the village level.

States : Mahajanapada model. Small regions with common interests can form a Mahajanapada or a state having a central leader.

Government size: Minimum Government with very few officials to limit bueurocracy.

Armies : Military competition where the best individual gets the best post something like we have in students Entrance exams and competative tests.

Military: Volunteer armies with only those interested can take part.


Educations, arts, science and technology

Education: Private sector
Arts: Private patronage of arts
Technology: 1. Private enterprise drives R&D
Technology & Innovation: 1. Open-source system
2. Non-copyright and non-patent system.
City and Town Planning: Decentralized
Healthcare: Private sector
History and Historiography: Focuses on: -Learnings and lessons,Characters and personalities,Timelessness

Social arrangements
Population growth: Marriage is the norm, Stable marriage and family structure
Ethnic Diversity: High diversity
Loyalty: 1. Values, 2. Family, 3. Community
Social identity: 1. Freedom, 2. Liberty, 3. Equity, 4. Anti-slavery

Economic arrangements
Wealth Distribution: Wealth and property distributed in the population
Economic opportunities: 1. Self employment 2. Slavery absent
Currency and coinage: Private coinage 2. Gold distributed to the population
Property rights: Property belong to the user (meaning one who lives in a property owns the property).
Entrepreneurial Structure: 1. Private initiative 2. No role for State

Law and jurisprudence
Judicial systems: Local justice
Last court of appeal: No supreme court. Final authority at Local level.
Legal punishment: Member Behaviour – Family & Community responsibility
 

kidwaibhai

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 9, 2006
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There is no need for a revolution in Pakistan. What we need is more accountability. This has begun to happen. We need time to let the internal checks and balances that are part of the system find there feet understand their boundaries and start working.
 

Parashuram1

FULL MEMBER
Feb 8, 2010
954
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516
well said there is a fair chance that thug mullahs might hijack it
Much appreciate it. Now certainly Pakistan in present situation would not fancy an Iran-like regime, which judging by the chaotic condition in your country has all the possibility of emerging into mainstream politics.

Hopefully, sane minds in Pakistani political system would prevail. I am not familiar with who is currently the most preferred choice of your people, but revolution would be the last method one would want to bring that man (or woman) in power.
 

Gin ka Pakistan

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 1, 2009
2,949
0
1,025
Much appreciate it. Now certainly Pakistan in present situation would not fancy an Iran-like regime, which judging by the chaotic condition in your country has all the possibility of emerging into mainstream politics.

Hopefully, sane minds in Pakistani political system would prevail. I am not familiar with who is currently the most preferred choice of your people, but revolution would be the last method one would want to bring that man (or woman) in power.
The current government should complete its term and the next elections will take current unpopular politicians out in democrat way. No revolution needed but what needed is votes to bring in revolution.
 

pak-marine

ELITE MEMBER
May 3, 2009
11,520
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9,826
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The current government should complete its term and the next elections will take current unpopular politicians out in democrat way. No revolution needed but what needed is votes to bring in revolution.
this will be the ideal case scenario but if that happens this will be perfect and only this is the long term solution , first we have this rather pseudo democracy which over the years will mould into real time democracy. There is no short term solution to this , generals along with the politicians have screwed up this country. Time has come for the people to decide their fate
 

Parashuram1

FULL MEMBER
Feb 8, 2010
954
0
516
I personally believe that Democracy is the worst form of government. The thing which I hate in Democracy comes from my religious perspective. I or rather we believe that any system should have continous action. Whether it be for the good or bad but there should be continuious action.
Interesting perspective. But the reason why you get to speak in this manner is because your country is the world's largest democracy. Otherwise right now, you would be thrown away in some political prison for registering your expression publicly against the government. Democracy is the only form of government that allows this freedom.

In Democracy the election winners need not worry about for the next 5 years and they can sit around lazily without any action. Therefore Democracy is good only for Lazy and idle minded and dull minded Idiots. Democracy can never bring development to any country.
Then democracy gives you the opportunity to boycott elections, demand new political reforms, demand new regulations and elect fresh candidates who are more committed to the country than the previous possibly lazy ones as you say.

Please do not blame the system of democracy if your people lack committment in developing your country. You are mixing a social quality (laziness) with a form of management (democracy). The two are totally different from each other.

In USA they have a fake democracy. It is really a 2 party dictatorship like in China where they have 1 party dictatorship. If you see in USA you have 2 very very similar political parties with little to seperate between them on important issues
.

Are you alright? United States has the freedom of politics. The opinions of each side is of their own. The commonality in their thinking reflects the pan-American thinking rather than stupid, childish conspiracy theories that most people want to believe.


1. Both Republicans and democrats believe in the fake capitalist model.
This 'fake' capitalist model is the reason why people die to go to United States especially from your part of the world. (I take it that one in every four Americans is of Indian origin).

This 'fake' model is the reasons why computer, internet, electricity, phone, fax, mobile phones and pretty much everything was developed.

This 'fake' model is the reason why innovation is the highest in United States even today despite the dismal economic condition there.

This 'fake' model is the reason there is money to those who want to earn it.

All these inventions, innovations, open thinking, research, development, conceptualization etc would have been in the dumpster had the world been a silly, impractical, lazy and short-sighted Communist/Socialist model. Soviet Union's sheer failure is the biggest example. Before pointing at Americsn involvement in Afghan war, do care to educate yourself on the economic strain that Soviet government faced already before the war began in all seriousness. And please do not point at China. Chinese follow state capitalism after they saw their larger 'comrade's' bite the dust with that lack-lustre and backward concept called "Communism".

Finally, to make it simpler for you; this 'fake' model is the reason why your country India is emerging as a powerful economic challenger to the West in general. Prior to your economic reforms, you were a stagnant, underdeveloped command economy in the fashion of your Cold War ally the now defunct Soviet Union. If you were still following that model, even African countries would have surpassed you by now. Before you get angry with me, discuss this with some economist and perhaps he (or she) might explain to you better.

Democracy and hence capitalism is the reason why Europe has been able to rapidly develop compared to what most Socialist states that have either failed or have remained a basket case.

And this same 'fake' model is the reason why half of your part of the world throngs for visas to West for a better standard of life.

2. Both of them like wars
This is a rather complex theory for you to understand but quite a lot of conveniences that people use daily are a result of military research which comes out due to wars. I might sound awful right now but even I do not like wars. However, wars are the reason why their innovation, research and manufacturing are all time high.

Every major power in the history of this planet does it. It is harsh, but reality is harsh as well. innovation comes from urgent situations and I am sure you will agree that wars top the list in that category.

3. Both support Israel and other CIA related policy issues.
Again a pan-American thinking. This has nothing to do with Democracy. Come with something concrete please.

So people are given an illusion that when another party wins they are in control which is not true.
:coffee: Conspiracy theories at their highest.
 

pak-marine

ELITE MEMBER
May 3, 2009
11,520
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9,826
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
=Parashuram1;1450507]Much appreciate it. Now certainly Pakistan in present situation would not fancy an Iran-like regime, which judging by the chaotic condition in your country has all the possibility of emerging into mainstream politics.

I dont know how many on the forum will agree but having a closer look at present scenario i feel that there are elements (very power ful indeed) who are draging pakistan into a religious revolt.



Hopefully, sane minds in Pakistani political system would prevail. I am not familiar with who is currently the most preferred choice of your people, but revolution would be the last method one would want to bring that man (or woman) in power
well yes that would be the ideal case scenario but people are desperate and getting impatient. Masses are again poor from rural pakistan and they are the worst hit by floods , high cost of food and increased crime wave ... it depends on pakistani masses what do they want ? we are writing in comfort from our homes little we know about the public sentiments on ground who are daily wage earners and are now seriously pissed off , and how much effect would sane minds would have on them!
 

desioptimist

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 28, 2010
2,084
0
734
Religion has everything to do with Democracy. Both Democracy and Religion have never been part of the Indian philosophy. In fact India never had a religion. The British put the word religion in Indian dictionary and gave the name as Hindus to the people living here. The people living from Afghanistan to Kanyakumari had a set of common culture, tolerance, respect for diverse attitudes (including religion) and political and social life. The West merely labelled the people of these into a single sect or group.

My solution of India is the concept of Bharat Tantra which is what Gandhiji wanted to be for India. Unfortunately he was killed before he could accomplish his goal.

Bharat Tantra works in the following manner. This Bharat Tantra can work for the entire south Asia region including Pakistan, Bangladesh and Aghanistan.



Military and defense systems and technology

Central Command: No concept of overall central command. All powers is distributed at the Local levels mostly at the village level.

States : Mahajanapada model. Small regions with common interests can form a Mahajanapada or a state having a central leader.

Government size: Minimum Government with very few officials to limit bueurocracy.

Armies : Military competition where the best individual gets the best post something like we have in students Entrance exams and competative tests.

Military: Volunteer armies with only those interested can take part.


Educations, arts, science and technology

Education: Private sector
Arts: Private patronage of arts
Technology: 1. Private enterprise drives R&D
Technology & Innovation: 1. Open-source system
2. Non-copyright and non-patent system.
City and Town Planning: Decentralized
Healthcare: Private sector
History and Historiography: Focuses on: -Learnings and lessons,Characters and personalities,Timelessness

Social arrangements
Population growth: Marriage is the norm, Stable marriage and family structure
Ethnic Diversity: High diversity
Loyalty: 1. Values, 2. Family, 3. Community
Social identity: 1. Freedom, 2. Liberty, 3. Equity, 4. Anti-slavery

Economic arrangements
Wealth Distribution: Wealth and property distributed in the population
Economic opportunities: 1. Self employment 2. Slavery absent
Currency and coinage: Private coinage 2. Gold distributed to the population
Property rights: Property belong to the user (meaning one who lives in a property owns the property).
Entrepreneurial Structure: 1. Private initiative 2. No role for State

Law and jurisprudence
Judicial systems: Local justice
Last court of appeal: No supreme court. Final authority at Local level.
Legal punishment: Member Behaviour – Family & Community responsibility
Does not matter whether democracy was part of India or not. It is among the best practice, when it comes to governance, nothing beats democracy. It is flexible, and you can have the level of democracy you want.
I still dont understand what democracy has got to do with religion?

Decentralized military: You cannot fight against a large enemy(forget large, even small one) with decentralized military. All they have to do is defeat you one by one. If you want to make a coordinated defense, the coordination itself takes too much of an effort.

States: What is difference between what you are proposing and what already is?
Minimum Govt size: Everybody is trying for it. Everybody wants to minimize wastage. But in a large organization, wastage is inevitable.
The trick is to find a balance, and your model does not give any specifics of that.

I can go on and on, but basically you bring nothing new. It is similar to some people claiming , islamic system of this, islamic of that, but nothing new, nothing better.
 

EjazR

SENIOR MEMBER
May 3, 2009
5,148
1
6,076
the type of revolutions underway in tunesia, egypt and jordan has one 'common link' which is that peoples of all backgrounds are participating and they are united (for now) in one cause. in our case it is the opposite - we dont have a 'united stand' against the govt in power - each party backed by its 'cadres' have their own agenda and unfortunately the agenda is not to 'save our country' but to 'save their interests'
Sir,

Pakistan did do exactly the same type of revolution just two years back. Was it not people power that pushed Musharraf out of power? He was the Army dictator that could not even last 10 years unlike the Arab regimes.

People of all walks of life joined in the Chief Justice movement and Mushrraf had to leave Pakistan just like Ben Ali had to run away from Tunisia.

So in this case Pakistan is ahead of the curve.
 

IND151

BANNED
Oct 25, 2010
10,171
3
7,279
Country
India
Location
India
by klklkl

Religion has everything to do with Democracy. Both Democracy and Religion have never been part of the Indian philosophy. In fact India never had a religion. The British put the word religion in Indian dictionary and gave the name as Hindus to the people living here. The people living from Afghanistan to Kanyakumari had a set of common culture, tolerance, respect for diverse attitudes (including religion) and political and social life. The West merely labelled the people of these into a single sect or group.

My solution of India is the concept of Bharat Tantra which is what Gandhiji wanted to be for India. Unfortunately he was killed before he could accomplish his goal.

Bharat Tantra works in the following manner. This Bharat Tantra can work for the entire south Asia region including Pakistan, Bangladesh and Aghanistan.



Military and defense systems and technology
Central Command: No concept of overall central command. All powers is distributed at the Local levels mostly at the village level.

States : Mahajanapada model. Small regions with common interests can form a Mahajanapada or a state having a central leader.

Government size: Minimum Government with very few officials to limit bueurocracy.

Armies : Military competition where the best individual gets the best post something like we have in students Entrance exams and competative tests.

Military: Volunteer armies with only those interested can take part.


Educations, arts, science and technology

Education: Private sector
Arts: Private patronage of arts
Technology: 1. Private enterprise drives R&D
Technology & Innovation: 1. Open-source system
2. Non-copyright and non-patent system.
City and Town Planning: Decentralized
Healthcare: Private sector
History and Historiography: Focuses on: -Learnings and lessons,Characters and personalities,Timelessness

Social arrangements
Population growth: Marriage is the norm, Stable marriage and family structure
Ethnic Diversity: High diversity
Loyalty: 1. Values, 2. Family, 3. Community
Social identity: 1. Freedom, 2. Liberty, 3. Equity, 4. Anti-slavery

Economic arrangements
Wealth Distribution: Wealth and property distributed in the population
Economic opportunities: 1. Self employment 2. Slavery absent
Currency and coinage: Private coinage 2. Gold distributed to the population
Property rights: Property belong to the user (meaning one who lives in a property owns the property).
Entrepreneurial Structure: 1. Private initiative 2. No role for State

Law and jurisprudence
Judicial systems: Local justice
Last court of appeal: No supreme court. Final authority at Local level.
Legal punishment: Member Behaviour – Family & Community responsibility
you want this type of governance? i dont. without strong central command china will defeat us easily. in nation like India democracy and strong central command are essential. dont you remember how mughals defeated raj puts one by one? dont forget how British defeated all indian dynasties one by one. contrary to this strong and united India with strong central command is one of the major powers in Asia.
 
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