What's new

Research Papers: Pakistani Aerospace Technologies

M.AsfandYar

FULL MEMBER
Dec 28, 2013
1,488
0
1,415
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
So this is awkward lol. I know all of the authors. Which means I know what this paper represents. Unfortunately, this is just a paper written due to a requirement by the university to "write a paper for practice". So really this is nothing real/serious.

However, this was a paper based on these students' FYP being advised by Dr.Ihtezaz Qamar, who I have mentioned on this forum before:

And this is from 2014 so a lot has probably happened since. I do expect Dr.Qamar to have done some actual work.

On a related note - all of the authors except Dr.Qamar have migrated out of Pakistan. Make what you will of that.
The last I heard Dr. IQ was retiring. Also, much of the old guard has gone or is in the process. He supervised some FYP related to this in the last years and then took on some of those students after graduation.
 
Last edited:

S.Y.A

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 21, 2008
2,876
2
3,210
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Have to give credit where it is due though: I have not seen an example of what you described in the PN. Not even in the senior (upto 1-star) ranks.
Really?! Well then, it looks like all the stories of navy being really forward thinking and sensible are true then.
 

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,756
75
5,934
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Why is it that anything remotely related to Pakistan's tech industry landscape eventually turns into a major rant against the fauji mindset? :lol:
I know that's a rhetorical question but I'll answer it anyway lol. It's simple:
1. All military tech industry in Pakistan is strictly controlled and micromanaged by the military so there are no alternatives.
2. The military often does a pretty bad job at it in many cases.
3. Our population thinks it's actually doing great because they have some successful programs and everything else is unquestionable behind scoorty.
4. This disconnect between 2 and 3 pisses me off because 3 forces us into a rut where we don't improve.

Have to give credit where it is due though: I have not seen an example of what you described in the PN. Not even in the senior (upto 1-star) ranks.
That is very very welcome. You should write about those things in detail. We need some positive feedback in all the negative feedback I provide. I want to feel happy lol.
 

Enigma SIG

SENIOR MEMBER
Feb 20, 2009
4,192
0
5,308
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I know that's a rhetorical question but I'll answer it anyway lol. It's simple:
1. All military tech industry in Pakistan is strictly controlled and micromanaged by the military so there are no alternatives.
2. The military often does a pretty bad job at it in many cases.
3. Our population thinks it's actually doing great because they have some successful programs and everything else is unquestionable behind scoorty.
4. This disconnect between 2 and 3 pisses me off because 3 forces us into a rut where we don't improve.


That is very very welcome. You should write about those things in detail. We need some positive feedback in all the negative feedback I provide. I want to feel happy lol.
I mean PA looks at the US MIC as its ideal military wise but doesn't like to work the way the US MIC does. At this point, it should be Monkey see, Monkey do.
 

sparten

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 11, 2006
1,836
3
1,303
And we have alternatives? The private sector is averse to spending money on innovation (outside the IT sector). Legacy of Bhutto's **stupid** nationalization. The Government is the only game in town in Pk and I hate to tell you this, but Government priorities change. Most programs will fail.
Until a few years ago, UAV research got a lot of rupees and then started getting cut as the big operations on the western border ended. That's the nature of the beast.
The pandemic ensured that bio-tech research had lots of money available and I think that will continue, for while, though at reduced rates since our Government did not like having to scour the planet for medical supplies.

One of the things that i liked about Fawaad Ch's reign as S&T Minister is the beginnings of linking research institutes with private industry. At least if a Government project fails, the private sector might find use for it,
 

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,756
75
5,934
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
I mean PA looks at the US MIC as its ideal military wise but doesn't like to work the way the US MIC does. At this point, it should be Monkey see, Monkey do.
I really don't think they do in terms of R&D. They are much closer to Russia or North Korea. Pakistan is a weird mix of extreme capitalist and extreme communist systems I've noticed. There is very little room for private enterprise in the military space. This is diametrically opposite to the US where the private military industrial complex is a thing (not something we should aspire to either).
 

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,756
75
5,934
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
And we have alternatives? The private sector is averse to spending money on innovation (outside the IT sector). Legacy of Bhutto's **stupid** nationalization. The Government is the only game in town in Pk and I hate to tell you this, but Government priorities change. Most programs will fail.
Until a few years ago, UAV research got a lot of rupees and then started getting cut as the big operations on the western border ended. That's the nature of the beast.
The pandemic ensured that bio-tech research had lots of money available and I think that will continue, for while, though at reduced rates since our Government did not like having to scour the planet for medical supplies.

One of the things that i liked about Fawaad Ch's reign as S&T Minister is the beginnings of linking research institutes with private industry. At least if a Government project fails, the private sector might find use for it,
Couple of things.
1. For military projects I dont think the government decides any direction. I don't think a civilian government decided we needed Ra'ad or Shahpar or something. It was the military that decided it.
2. The military with its influence on all military production actively stifles private enterprise with the thinking being some combination of:
a. Private military stuff is considered a security threat
b. The military loses some money and influence it has with its monopoly over the industry.
c. Pakistan's non existent contract enforcement system in case a private company reneges on a contract.
d. It thinks it can do better and goes if the private sector can make it we can too so we should, why pay the private sector?
You can see why I said Pakistani military industry is very communist in nature.
3. Doing research for very specific system development and changing and dropping what you're doing when the winds blow a different direction is a terrible way to do research. Little successful research work happens that way. Research requires some persistence. I don't even think that happens in our system. It would be a very stupid stupid thing to do and would be another reason to leave research to researchers rather than soldiers.
4. I agree ZAB was the worst thing to happen to all kinds of private enterprise in Pakistan and who knows we might have had a vibrant private defense industry had ZAB not messed it all up.
 

Raider 21

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Feb 18, 2016
3,010
7
5,337
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United States
I know that's a rhetorical question but I'll answer it anyway lol. It's simple:
1. All military tech industry in Pakistan is strictly controlled and micromanaged by the military so there are no alternatives.
2. The military often does a pretty bad job at it in many cases.
3. Our population thinks it's actually doing great because they have some successful programs and everything else is unquestionable behind scoorty.
4. This disconnect between 2 and 3 pisses me off because 3 forces us into a rut where we don't improve.


That is very very welcome. You should write about those things in detail. We need some positive feedback in all the negative feedback I provide. I want to feel happy lol.
I second that, and not only from feedback from back home as my dad flew in PAF, but having seen how PAC present their products to foreign customers, their marketing skills are very poor. There are more limitations than progressions, but the people are made to over praise the system. Criticism is taken as insult, rather than as a note for progression, it is an issue of the culture, not the potential.
 

Goenitz

SENIOR MEMBER
Apr 28, 2014
4,935
2
6,191
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
@JamD
Do you work in a research group who secures funding for a project?
You can tailor your field and do research work for Pakistan. Such as this research group has mainly worked for some city council to monitor health of trees (drones + different cameras + algorithm). However, they have been contacted by several other groups like road surveyors to detect pothole.

Now this group is asking (I think to UKRI) for 10 Million RS to carry out project in Pakistan like to monitor Kinnu trees health (Depalpur) and collect data for it. In fact they had some problems to stabilise the camera on the dog robot (interested :P ). Overall, I mean independent research and securing funds for it is very rewarding and you can channel your funds where you like.
 
Last edited:

sparten

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 11, 2006
1,836
3
1,303
1. For military projects I dont think the government decides any direction. I don't think a civilian government decided we needed Ra'ad or Shahpar or something. It was the military that decided it.
This is a common trope, but one which is false. The power of the purse is the ultimate control and that is and always has been parliaments perogative. Your shiny new drone is a non starter if the treasury isn’t willing fund it. You can have all the support needed but if they don’t sign the cheque, it ain’t Happening.
And rest assured the treasury asks detailed question as to why a certain platform is needed.
 

SQ8

ADVISORS
Mar 28, 2009
35,960
428
76,799
Country
United States
Location
United States
I second that, and not only from feedback from back home as my dad flew in PAF, but having seen how PAC present their products to foreign customers, their marketing skills are very poor. There are more limitations than progressions, but the people are made to over praise the system. Criticism is taken as insult, rather than as a note for progression, it is an issue of the culture, not the potential.
Unfortunately the society and the institution itself tends to propagate it. Until that changes (beyond the Fintech startup) I expect nothing revolutionary or great from Pakistan or most Pakistanis . Just small incremental “two steps forward and one step back” routines.
Yes there are more than one serving PAF folks in there. I have sort of interviewed for a possible position at PAC too. I was told to come to Pakistan immediately and also told that everything I know is basically wrong and useless - somehow the conversation was steered towards making that point. This was the director of the program, who's US educated and supposed to be different. I wonder if you and I are talking about the same person :)

Someone I narrated this conversation to said to me that it's in our nature to put down people to show superiority. I guess I needed to be put down. Doesn't bode well for the environment he was asking me to join.
Most Pakistanis get insecure very quickly if they feel a person they term as junior in age or perceived experience knows more than them.
Especially if they got their post through nepotism or false references.

Which is precisely why more often than not unless you have a particular knack for sycophancy and the patience to wait like in the military - Pakistan is no place for well educated and intelligent Pakistanis.
 

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,756
75
5,934
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
@JamD
Do you work in a research group who secures funding for a project?
You can tailor your field and do research work for Pakistan. Such as this research group has mainly worked for some city council to monitor health of trees (drones + different cameras + algorithm). However, they have been contacted by several other groups like road surveyors to detect pothole.

Now this group is asking (I think to UKRI) for 10 Million RS to carry out project in Pakistan like to monitor Kinnu trees health (Depalpur) and collect data for it. In fact they had some problems to stabilise the camera on the dog robot (interested :P ). Overall, I mean independent research and securing funds for it is very rewarding and you can channel your funds where you like.
I do work for a research group but the research is mostly for the USN and USAF so I don't think I can steer them to help Pakistan lol. However, I have tried getting Pakistani students into good PhD programs using my connections - however, the only people who got in touch were subpar students who weren't able to find other jobs in Pakistan so I couldn't, in good conscience, recommend them. It's a shame really. I could've helped someone but I couldn't find them and those slots got filled up by IIT grads from India instead.
This is a common trope, but one which is false. The power of the purse is the ultimate control and that is and always has been parliaments perogative. Your shiny new drone is a non starter if the treasury isn’t willing fund it. You can have all the support needed but if they don’t sign the cheque, it ain’t Happening.
And rest assured the treasury asks detailed question as to why a certain platform is needed.
Let's agree to disagree because we will disagree on how much power the civilian government has over military projects besides of course the power to shit the economy's pants and sink everything. Let's not even get started on whether or not the civilian decision makers are even competent to be making such decisions.
Anyway.... I wanted this thread to be about fun research papers from Pakistan. There's enough bad news elsewhere, let's make this a happy place lol.
 
Last edited:

JamD

FULL MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
1,756
75
5,934
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Autonomous terrain-following for unmanned air vehicles
Work on Burraq UCAV
1634762425807.png

Flight envelope for Burraq WOW:
1634762502266.png

1634762593848.png











Runway Detection and Localization in Aerial Images Using Deep Learning
and
Automated Military Vehicle Detection from Low-Altitude Aerial_Images

Some fun work done at National Center of Artificial Intelligence (NCAI)
 

Attachments

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom