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Rembering Battle of Tololing : Kargil War

Jackdaws

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Indians who pleaded sorry begged Americans to force a withdrawal... Dutta documented that in her book.. you need to read for your education

Pakistan Army had complete control of the battlefield.. your airforce was ineffective and your infantry even more so.

for me Gen Zinni statement is enough for me.... " I presuaded the Pakistanis to withdraw"
Lol. Yes sounds about right. Except he "insisted", not "persuaded".


 

White privilege

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Does he already have a Nishan-e-Haider for saving the lives of so many Pak soldiers?
Many Pakistani soldiers died because of him. He strong armed Sharif to announce a withdrawal, which should have been mutual but Indians went back on it and targeted the retreating troops with artillery. Soldiers deployed at the forward most positions might have been killed any way, cut off and surrounded , but they would have taken 3 times more Indian soldiers with them who would have no choice but to mount a frontal assault to take back each and every entrenched position.

C'mon bro. '65 was a victory for them. So, you can gauge their knowledge & acceptance of the truth. Don't waste your time.
And apparently Abhi destroyed all the Pakistan Air Force and went back singing, Sandesey aatey hain.....
 

SQ8

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C'mon bro. '65 was a victory for them. So, you can gauge their knowledge & acceptance of the truth. Don't waste your time.
Considering that comment comes from people whose entire military history is written in Bollywood’esque prose and obfuscated with lies while even the jingoistic OP spent more of his time talking about the diplomatic conclusion to the conflict rather than the military aspects of it - I wonder who is wasting whose time?

Oh, I also forgot I am talking to the Indian who registered willfully on a Pakistani forum to spend his time presenting the Indian point of view… no time spent there
 

Jackdaws

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Many Pakistani soldiers died because of him. He strong armed Sharif to announce a withdrawal, which should have been mutual but Indians went back on it and targeted the retreating troops with artillery. Soldiers deployed at the forward most positions might have been killed any way, cut off and surrounded , but they would have taken 3 times more Indian soldiers with them who would have no choice but to mount a frontal assault to take back each and every entrenched position.


And apparently Abhi destroyed all the Pakistan Air Force and went back singing, Sandesey aatey hain.....
Mutual withdrawal? From where?

Considering that comment comes from people whose entire military history is written in Bollywood’esque prose and obfuscated with lies while even the jingoistic OP spent more of his time talking about the diplomatic conclusion to the conflict rather than the military aspects of it - I wonder who is wasting whose time?

Oh, I also forgot I am talking to the Indian who registered willfully on a Pakistani forum to spend his time presenting the Indian point of view… no time spent there
Awwww
 

Hellfire2006

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When will be remembering losing point 5353 day ?
it lies on the LoC , LoC runs along the highest ridges and peaks in the drass-kargil-batalik sector .

C'mon bro. '65 was a victory for them. So, you can gauge their knowledge & acceptance of the truth. Don't waste your time.
it was a military stalemate , however pakistan army was the one which initiated the war by launching Op Gibraltar and Op Grand Slam , so if the aggressor fails to gain something from the conflict it is generally considered to be a loss for the party which instigated the conflict in the first place
 

Hellfire2006

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blah... US saved India that day.

PA gave IA a bashing it never forgot..
How ? PA suffered roughly 453-700 KIA ( depends on which source you refer to ) despite having the element of surprise and sitting at dominating heights. Once IA got to know the scale of the intrusion and initiated the offensive PA positions simply became untenable

Many Pakistani soldiers died because of him. He strong armed Sharif to announce a withdrawal, which should have been mutual but Indians went back on it and targeted the retreating troops with artillery. Soldiers deployed at the forward most positions might have been killed any way, cut off and surrounded , but they would have taken 3 times more Indian soldiers with them who would have no choice but to mount a frontal assault to take back each and every entrenched position.
Why would we withdraw from our own side ? It had to be a unilateral withdrawal by the pak army

Gee i dont know, perhaps commander Aul asking for a ceasefire (which did happen leading to pretty much all posts/peaks being vacated on both sides), only later to betray the same ceasefire he asked for by trying to attack point 5353 and the point next to it, evidently failing to take point 5353 (which we own) and only being able to take the smaller point next to it. On top of that, Pakistan counter attacked which led to Aftab 1,bunker ridge, saddle ridge, shangruti and dhalunag being taken. Of which aftab 1, bunker ridge, saddle ridge and point 5353 are still under our control.
Point 5310 is a mountain peak in the Chorbat La area in the vicinity of Kargil. It is located at a distance of about one kilometre on the Pakistani side of the LoC.[1][2] The peak located on the Pakistani side of LoC was captured in an operation by troops of the Indian Army on April 8, 2000. Two Indian soldiers including a JCO Subedar Bharnam Singh were killed by an avalanche during the operation.[1] The operation was carried out by the 14th battalion of the Sikh Regiment.[2]

The peak is of strategic importance because it enables the Indian Army to tactically control 12 square kilometres of Pakistani territory in Karubar bowl. Domination of this area also threatened the Pakistani posts opposite Turtok Sector from the rear.[2] Some analysts see it as an Indian retaliation for the capture of Point 5353 on the LoC by Pakistani troops
Lol.

You only took 2/8 peaks when the conflict was at its height. You had 30,000 troops and fighter jets conducting cas. You lost over 540 of them, 2 jets and 1 heli, alongside a whole bunch of other equipment (arty, logis etc), forced to call a ceasefire which cmd aul betrayed, lost 6 peaks again, took back 2 of them like a snake after kargil conflict, still cant take the other 4 which remain in our control.

4/8. How can you claim victory after completing half of your objective. Gg
My god who fed you these lies
 
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Hellfire2006

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Indians who pleaded sorry begged Americans to force a withdrawal... Dutta documented that in her book.. you need to read for your education
India gained international support on the kargil issue thanks to excellent diplomacy by MoFA , if pakistan failed to mobilise international support for it's operation then it's not india's fault. It is rather due to the incompetence of your foreign office that you failed to gain diplomatic support for your effort in kargil


Pakistan Army had complete control of the battlefield.. your airforce was ineffective and your infantry even more so.
Where is the proof ? Once the mirages came in with their PGMs , PA posts were falling down like cards. Whatever you said is coming out of a fake superiority complex that rests in your subconscious mind
 

PradoTLC

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here is the proof ? Once the mirages came in with their PGMs , PA posts were falling down like cards. Whatever you said is coming out of a fake superiority complex that rests in your subconscious mind


nope..

Mirages attacked in perdicatable manner our people just moved out and returned to business of piling a tonne of indian bodies..
 

PradoTLC

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Lol. Yes sounds about right. Except he "insisted", not "persuaded".




take what ever spin you like. In general Pakistani infantry out performed you and like in true indian fashion ran to americans to save your rear ends..

you did that in 1962 begging for US help, you did it in 1999 , you did it in 2019 whing about use of F-16s..lol

your military is a serious joke..
 

Raj-Hindustani

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Indians who pleaded sorry begged Americans to force a withdrawal... Dutta documented that in her book.. you need to read for your education

Pakistan Army had complete control of the battlefield.. your airforce was ineffective and your infantry even more so.

for me Gen Zinni statement is enough for me.... " I presuaded the Pakistanis to withdraw"
It was pakistani PM with back by establishment flew for getting help...

This was the Indian stand -

Indian officials have called Sharif's efforts little more than subterfuge, and warned they would continue a full-scale assault until Pakistan withdraws from Indian soil. Some Islamic fundamentalist and military groups in Pakistan, however, have warned they will try to bring down Sharif if he withdraws.
"Pakistan's call for dialogue is a blatant attempt to obscure the facts," said Raminder Jassal, India's Foreign Ministry spokesman. "Pakistan must fully accept the futility of this misadventure. . . . The bottom line is the aggressors have to go back."

Read the actual drama.... And desperate attempts from pakistani side


The meeting with Clinton was arranged at Sharif's request, U.S. officials said

Midway through the meeting, Clinton broke away to phone Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who had turned down an invitation the day before for his own talks in Washington, according to Indian officials. Vajpayee, whose government has been criticized for India's failure to foresee the enemy's strategy, faces a national election in September. He has rejected any dialogue with Pakistan over the fighting or the wider issue of Kashmir's status until Pakistani forces leave the Indian-controlled zone.

On July 3, Clinton called Sharif, "basically to see what's happening," the official said. It was then that Sharif asked to meet with the president. An hour later, Clinton called back and invited Sharif to come to Washington the following day. But Clinton also made clear to Sharif that the meeting had to produce "a positive result," the official said; anything less could "accelerate the downward spiral."
 
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Jackdaws

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It was pakistani PM with back by establishment flew for getting help...

This was the Indian stand -

Indian officials have called Sharif's efforts little more than subterfuge, and warned they would continue a full-scale assault until Pakistan withdraws from Indian soil. Some Islamic fundamentalist and military groups in Pakistan, however, have warned they will try to bring down Sharif if he withdraws.
"Pakistan's call for dialogue is a blatant attempt to obscure the facts," said Raminder Jassal, India's Foreign Ministry spokesman. "Pakistan must fully accept the futility of this misadventure. . . . The bottom line is the aggressors have to go back."

Read the actual drama.... And desperate attempts from pakistani side


The meeting with Clinton was arranged at Sharif's request, U.S. officials said

Midway through the meeting, Clinton broke away to phone Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who had turned down an invitation the day before for his own talks in Washington, according to Indian officials. Vajpayee, whose government has been criticized for India's failure to foresee the enemy's strategy, faces a national election in September. He has rejected any dialogue with Pakistan over the fighting or the wider issue of Kashmir's status until Pakistani forces leave the Indian-controlled zone.

On July 3, Clinton called Sharif, "basically to see what's happening," the official said. It was then that Sharif asked to meet with the president. An hour later, Clinton called back and invited Sharif to come to Washington the following day. But Clinton also made clear to Sharif that the meeting had to produce "a positive result," the official said; anything less could "accelerate the downward spiral."
Never let facts obfuscate conspiracy theories
 

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