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Recent CPEC JCC meeting; Pakistani objectives appear to be unmet

S.Y.A

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how many actual wars has Pakistan won against actual peer competitors?
how many wars has india won against a comparable power?
On topic: only thing left to do for Pakistan is to seriously lobby western investors for investments (Lucky grp succeeded in bringing samsung here, others can follow suit), and it needs to lobby local industrialists and chambers of commerce to increase exports.
 

Pak Nationalist

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The agreement with China is still shrouded in mystery while the tall claims were made by PMLn and then PTI. We are seeing zero collaboration between Pakistan and China for capacity building in manufacturing sector (Strictly speaking of civilian industries) and it from Chinese standpoint, why would they train their competitor when they can earn by selling their product in Pakistan.

Dawood Razak was supposed to find a way to negotiate with Chinese and find a way to include domestic players in CPEC projects. Now it seems that we have lost the steam and Chinese are pissed for delays from our side. Somebody take it up in the senate to address this issue.

Are we to believe the rumors that some powerful people in Pakistan are deliberately delaying CPEC for they have an understanding with American? Food for thought !
The latter part is really worrisome. What has that understanding given us till now even if such a thing exists? Are there any hidden IMF conditions or a cautious approach by the Chinese themselves until Pakistan remains in the IMF program?

Labor is getting expensive in China, and Chinese businesses are doing what Americans did (offshoring) when the labor cost rose in their country to keep their products competitive globally. We had to attract investment from the Chinese to set up plants in Pakistan and export from here. Skill transfer to local labor/management would have been a self-perpetuating cycle.
Whilst not comparable, I somewhat agree with the Israel- Iran analogy, we're not seeing visible retaliation that has plausible deniability against Indian perpetrators of incidents in mainland Pakistan.

Wonder if Moeed Yusuf is the correct man for the NSA role, does he have enough empowerment to suggest full spectrum solutions or has only been tasked to provide political and academic views? Perhaps a decoupling of his role, so that he keeps doing the very important job of looking at Pakistan's security in other domains such as food etc., remains with him and someone more versed in Intelligence matters is handed the NSA position.
The retaliatory tools rest with the ISI. I do not think Moeed has much say in any of this. However, his brainchild of geoeconomics might be holding some back. He is a brilliant scholar, but he is not right here when Pakistan has to present the other cheek after being slapped on one by our bitter foe.
Off topic: Hind has been fked before multiple times, with much less. Anyways, you shouldn't worry too much about it since it clearly won't happen due to sheer difference in scale.
Forget ghazwas, buddy. We are talking about the cold hard facts related to the present day. I would appreciate it if we could retain the focus on the issues being discussed under this thread's central theme.

Regards
Focus on Trade with India.
India wants to settle the bilateral disputes unilaterally, and there could be no normalcy in relations in such a scenario. Without normalcy, there could be no decent trade.
 
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Pak Nationalist

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Why isn't China relenting and helping a friend in need ?
China is not to be blamed in its entirety. Our leaders negotiated exceptionally lousy deals salivating at the prospects of short-term relief (addressing the power capacity shortfall) while not caring about the long-term impacts of those deals on the economy. Then CPEC 2.0 could not take off that could have mitigated deficits on the external front, particularly in our trade with the world.
 

Pak Nationalist

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What we have seen is Pakistan consciously putting all eggs in one basket. Nations like us actually leverage their position when these are being courted by influential global players is to play them off each other to get the best deals. Of course, China is a key ally, but just like it does not appreciate reopening the terms of settled contracts for negotiations, we should have played the world powers off each other to extract maximum benefits for ourselves (that is what BD is doing). Instead, we painted ourselves as the poster boy of BRI in a growingly polarized world. In retrospect, maybe we did what we did because we were sinking when PML N assumed office in 2013 with 12-16 hours of power outages. PML N was thrown a lifeline, and it grabbed it by both hands. We could have contained our excitement, though, and worked diligently on CPEC without creating the type of media waves we did. The west now sees us sitting in the Chinese camp and does not want to commit to investments. The question is, can we still play global powers off each other to get the best investment deals?
 

mudas777

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Xi at the start of the CPEC have told us with the CPEC belt and road initiative both brothers will develop and prosper together. This doesn't looks like it even its our own corrupt rulers doing but surely Chinese knew what they are getting out of us and this is not a win win situation between two brothers more like it one brother is ripping the other one off as one brother was blind.

We are not an African nation 1000's of miles away from the China and where they can do the investments and earn handsome profit. We are the only friend China have got where we can depend on each other, and down and out Pakistan will not be in China interests too. US is still ruling the waves with their Marshal plan development of Europe after the World war no wonder Europe shows up along side the US on every theatre. This flag ship project of belt and road will soon be without a flag and ship will be returning back to the China, if that's how they do business with us and just win for one like it happens in Sri Lanka. China needs to decide on the political level rather then the business level not to spoil brotherhood between the two nations. China have given the best opportunity to the West to make a song a dance about this unless this is not resolved behind the doors. China have to look at Pakistan differently instead of making exuberant profit they need to make a profit without destabilising us and developing Pakistan for their own security and future too.
 

Wood

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What were the 'bad deals' signed by the last administration in Pakistan? As per the dawn article, it seems like China expects $1.4 billion dollars in payment. What would be the consequence if Pakistan refuses to pay at this time?

As Pakistan is a strategic ally of China, I think it will get a more preferential treatment than a country like Sri Lanka.
 

CriticalThought

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What we have seen is Pakistan consciously putting all eggs in one basket. Nations like us actually leverage their position when these are being courted by influential global players is to play them off each other to get the best deals. Of course, China is a key ally, but just like it does not appreciate reopening the terms of settled contracts for negotiations, we should have played the world powers off each other to extract maximum benefits for ourselves (that is what BD is doing). Instead, we painted ourselves as the poster boy of BRI in a growingly polarized world. In retrospect, maybe we did what we did because we were sinking when PML N assumed office in 2013 with 12-16 hours of power outages. PML N was thrown a lifeline, and it grabbed it by both hands. We could have contained our excitement, though, and worked diligently on CPEC without creating the type of media waves we did. The west now sees us sitting in the Chinese camp and does not want to commit to investments. The question is, can we still play global powers off each other to get the best investment deals?
In order to play world powers against one another, you need patriots in the government. When you have self-serving corrupts, you will only get the sucker's deal each time. I am sure Nawaz government saw political expedience without considering Pakistan's interests. And Imran Khan is an American slave who has damaged the project further to win accolades from his master. We ARE playing world powers, but by giving them turns to hit us where it hurts most.
 

HammerHead081

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It has started to look like Chinese are making clowns out of us. Constant loans for highways, terrible IPPs contracts, not developing ML1 or any industries.
 

Protest_again

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CPEC was a game changer before but only now Pakistanis are realizing that it was actually a noose around their necks. Back then people were raising concerns about secrecy of the deals involving CPEC. Entire PDF would shout that toll gate collection from trade to China (lol) would be enough for paying back. Now begging China to reduce and cut back on the interests. Pakistani leadership and its people have no foresight.
Xi at the start of the CPEC have told us with the CPEC belt and road initiative both brothers will develop and prosper together. This doesn't looks like it even its our own corrupt rulers doing but surely Chinese knew what they are getting out of us and this is not a win win situation between two brothers more like it one brother is ripping the other one off as one brother was blind.

We are not an African nation 1000's of miles away from the China and where they can do the investments and earn handsome profit. We are the only friend China have got where we can depend on each other, and down and out Pakistan will not be in China interests too. US is still ruling the waves with their Marshal plan development of Europe after the World war no wonder Europe shows up along side the US on every theatre. This flag ship project of belt and road will soon be without a flag and ship will be returning back to the China, if that's how they do business with us and just win for one like it happens in Sri Lanka. China needs to decide on the political level rather then the business level not to spoil brotherhood between the two nations. China have given the best opportunity to the West to make a song a dance about this unless this is not resolved behind the doors. China have to look at Pakistan differently instead of making exuberant profit they need to make a profit without destabilising us and developing Pakistan for their own security and future too.
Come out of this brother brother relationship. Pakistanis are fools to think like that in the first place. Understand your position ( both economically and politically ) and work for your interests period. No one is out there to help Pakistan. And please stop lecturing others on how to deal with you. They are better placed to make such decisions for themselves. If India and China can resolve their issues, the latter will dump you in the trash and invest in India like there is no tomorrow. So please wake up and smell the coffee.
 
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