• Monday, December 9, 2019

RCS OF Different Fighters

Discussion in 'Air Warfare' started by iceman2009, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. iceman2009

    iceman2009 BANNED

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    Please see interesting website on RCS of fighters and radar capability.

    There has been much discussion on this forum re this TOPIC.
    Situation Awareness
     
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  2. shehbazi2001

    shehbazi2001 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Whenever we mention or say the manufacturers of radar equipment mention the range of their product, they usually dont mention for which RCS?

    I am still not sure about the standard RCS used for fighters whether it is 5 meter squares or 1 meter squares. Also I read somewhere that Russians use 5meter squares as standard against which to measure radar performance.

    Therefore, whenever we compare Russian, US and French or European ground radars/fighter radars/active BVR AAMs, we should look also for the standard RCS against these figures.

    RCS not only varies for each aircraft type but also it is different for a single aircraft from different directions. I dont know that what orientation the companies use as a default. RCS from left/right side is different as compared to frontal or back RCS.

    Perhaps the standard may be frontal RCS of fighters and bombers.

    It would be interesting to learn in this thread the standard for RCS of different countries against which they give radar ranges.

    To go deeper, the range of a radar is different in its different modes even for a single aircraft in same orientation. Search range is usually the longest, and then STT, TWS modes etc.

    If a pilot knows at least the frontal RCS of his aircraft in clean and different loaded configurations, then keeping in view the power of a radar, he can calculate the range at which he would be detected head-on by another fighter or ground radar or AWACS or active BVR AAM.
     
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  3. mean_bird

    mean_bird PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    whats JF-17s RCS?
     
  4. Owais

    Owais SENIOR MEMBER

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    approximately equals to F16. or may be a bit lesser than F16 due to DSI and other aerodynamics. I think murad sir or other elite member can explain you more than me
     
  5. shehbazi2001

    shehbazi2001 SENIOR MEMBER

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    One important and interesting fact is that the aircraft's radar antenna itself causes a good increase in the frontal RCS of the aircraft.

    A radar is fitted in the nose of the fighter and that nose radome is made of special materials that allows the radar waves to be transmitted and received through the nose radome. But this has negative aspects too.

    When an enemy radar illuminates the fighter from front, the aircraft's radar antenna in the nose radome is a flat plate and gives a good reflection, thus affecting RCS.

    F-22 deals this problem too. The nose radome of F-22 is a complicated and special material that allows the waves of own radar to go across but does not allow any other radar's waves to go through and get reflected from antenna. Must be a wonderful piece of work.

    Reference: AIR AND COSMOS, Special Edition, Feb 2009.
     
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  6. hj786

    hj786 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Cmon bro, do you seriously think anybody who knows that kind of information will post it on the internet? We don't even know JF's actual TWR!
     
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  7. mean_bird

    mean_bird PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    lol true that.
     
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  8. Manticore

    Manticore ADVISORS

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    The minimal frontal RCS of the traditional fighters

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
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  9. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    the RCS iof JF17 is claimed to be of the range of F16s and may further be decreased in the next block productions. if this is true the RCS of JF will clearly give an edge to it over the Su27 and Su30! also the fact of Phalcon AWACS with more radar range then the erieye will be neutralized to some extent!

    regards!
     
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  10. gambit

    gambit PROFESSIONAL

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    Not exactly true and it has much to do with the direction of the transmission, the degree of radome aberration, and finally the shaping of the radome itself.

    Radome aberration involves technology in materials and construction. Radome materials are essentially dielectrics and are selected for their 'pass through' abilities of certain freq ranges. In construction of the radome thickness of the material should be as uniform as possible because of the sweeping motion of the beam. Radome curvature, amazingly enough, actually contribute to electrical path lengths, for BOTH beams, the one inside scanning outward and the one from another source scanning the aircraft itself. The difference here is that radome aberration is not as effective against the aircraft's own radar as it is effective against external radar sweeps because of the radome's proximity to transmission source power. In simpler words, the aircraft's own radar is closer to the radome than any other radars out there, hence any radome aberration effect is not as pronounce simply because of the power level that meet the radome from the inside. Remember, radar pulses loses energy as they travels through the atmosphere -- atmospheric attenuation or absorption.

    Another factor is the creeping wave effect whenever radar pulses encounter a curved surface. The creeping wave effect is a form of traveling wave that basically travels along this curved surface whereas with a planar surface the radar pulse will be deflected off the surface. So depending on the aircraft's aspect angle to the radar, and it does not matter if the aircraft is 'stealth' or not, if any radar pulses that happened to penetrate the radome, there could be so little energy left that whatever that managed to bounce off any surfaces inside the radome, the radome material as a dielectric and its curvatures as electrical paths would effectively absorb those small level of energy anyway. This can also work against the aircraft's own radar if whatever it is trying to search is at its maximum effective detection range, any echoes from that target could be so weak that the radome itself absorbed those weak echoes. No radome is perfect.

    The leading edges of an aircraft, 'stealth' or otherwise, like control surfaces and intake lips, contribute far more to frontal RCS than the radar antenna inside the radome. Engines are the greatest contributors.
     
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  11. Manticore

    Manticore ADVISORS

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  12. Manticore

    Manticore ADVISORS

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    AWACSs today like E-2C Hawkeye 2000 and E-3C are capable to the detect the target of RCS = 1m2 class 250~300 km away.

    And their maximal effective detection range to the fighters in the world should be:

    * F-15C & Su-27 (RCS = 10~15m2): 450 ~ 600 km
    * Tornado (RCS = 8 m2): 420 ~ 500 km
    * MIG-29 (RCS = 5 m2): 370 ~ 450 km
    * F/A-18C (RCS = 3 m2): 330 ~ 395 km
    * F-16C (RCS = 1.2 m2): 260 ~ 310 km
    * JAS39 (RCS = 0.5 m2): 210 ~ 250 km
    * Su-47 (RCS = 0.3 m2): 185 ~ 220 km
    * Rafale (RCS = 0.1~0.2 m2): 140 ~ 200 km
    * F-18E (RCS = 0.1 m2): 140 ~ 170 km
    * MIG-42 (RCS = 0.1 m2): 140 ~ 170 km
    * EF2K (RCS = 0.05~0.1 m2): 120 ~ 170 km
    * F-35A (RCS = 0.0015 m2): 50 ~ 60 km
    * F/A-22 (RCS < or = 0.0002~0.0005 m2): < or = 30 ~ 45 km

    Even the tradional fighters (F-15, F-16) have the modern AWACS on their side, the stealthy fighter like F/A-22 with AIM-120 is still capable to give them the big surprise.

    As for the low RCS NG fighters like EF-2000, MIG-42, and Rafale, if they are equipped with the NG BVRAAM like Meteor (Effective range: 90~100 km+ to the 9G maneuverable fighter, and 150~200 km+ to the big, slow and clumsy airplanes like AWACS...) and R-77M-PD (Maximal effective range: 160 km+), I think they also have certain amount of chance to give tradional fighters + modern AWACS today a surprise.
     
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  13. Manticore

    Manticore ADVISORS

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    Here's a list of radar ranges for some popular fighters. I found it compiled on F-16.net (let me see who the author is):

    APG-77 AESA (F-22A)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 20 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 35 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 112 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 200 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 300 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 355 km+


    CAESAR AESA (EF-2000 Tranch3, post-2015 with 1,500 T/Rs)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 18~21 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 32~38 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 104~122 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 185~216 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 278~324 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 330~385 km+


    APG-63 V2/V3/V4 AESA (F-15C/E/SG)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 14~19 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 25~33 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 81~104 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 144~185 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 215~278 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 255~330 km+


    APG-81 AESA (F-35A/B/C)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 16 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 28 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 90 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 160 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 240 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 285 km+


    APG-79 AESA (F/A-18E/F and EA-18G, Block 2 and 3)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 13 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 72 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 128 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 192 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 228 km+


    CAPTOR (EF-2000 Tranch 1 and 2)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 12 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 70 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 124 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 185 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 220 km+


    RBE-2 AESA (Rafale F4, post-2012)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11~13 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20~23 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62~73 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165~195 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195~230 km+


    APG-80 AESA (F-16E)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195 km+


    NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+


    APG-63 (F-15C)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 9 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 16 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 51 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 90 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 135 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 160 km+


    RBE-2 PESA (Rafale F1/F2/F3)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 7~9 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 13~15 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 41~49 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 73~87 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 130~154 km+


    APG-73 (F/A-18E/F, Block1)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 32~36 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 56~64 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 84~96 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 100~114 km+


    PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+


    APG-68 V9 (F-16 C/D/I and RDY-2 iM2000-5MK2 and -9)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 8~9 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 25~30 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 46~54 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 66~80 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 78~95 km+


    RDY (M2000-5)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 7~8 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 22~27 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 40~47 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 60~70 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 70~84 km+


    APG-68 V5 (F-16 C/D)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 6~7 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 18~22 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 32~40 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 50~60 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 60~72 km+


    APG-67 V4 (T-50)

    For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
    For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
    For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 17~20 km+
    For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 30~36 km+
    For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 45~53 km+
    For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 53~63 km+
     
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  14. Manticore

    Manticore ADVISORS

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    Fighter radar ranges

    Aircraft/Radar Fighter Bomber

    EL/M-2032 47 km 100 km

    Eurofighter Captor (ex-ECR-90) ~175 km 370 km

    JA.37 Viggen PS-46/A 75 km max

    JAS.39 PS-05A 90 km 190 km

    F-4 AWG-10 38 km 80 km

    F-14A/B AWG-9 210 km 330 km

    F-14D APG-71 ~175 km 370 km

    F-15 APG-63/70 110-160 km 240 km

    F-15 APG-63(v)2 195 km 410 km

    F-16 APG-66 ~55 km ~105 km

    F-16 APG-66(v)2/3 70 km 130 km

    F-16 APG-68 80 km 140 km

    F-16 ABR 130 km 275 km

    F-18 APG-65 ~72 km ~ 150 km
    TWS of 10 targets at 74 km. HUD acquistion auto lock at ~9 km.

    F-18 APG-73 (APG-65 x 1.2) 85 km ~180 km

    F-20 APG-67 90 km ~130 km max

    F-22 APG-77 230 km 490 km

    MiG-21 RP-21 Spin Scan 9.5 km 20 km max

    MiG-21 RP-22 Saphir-21 14 km 30 km max

    MiG-23 High Lark 33 km 70 km

    MiG-23ML Sapfir-23ML 40 km 85 km

    MiG-25 RP-25 Smerch-A 47 km 100km

    MiG-25 Sapfir-25 66 km 140 km

    MiG-29 NO-19 Slot Back 70-100 km 100-150 km
    Tracks 10 targets, guides against 1.

    MiG-29 NO-10 88 km 186 km

    MiG-29 SMT-II NO-19ME Topaz 130 km 275 km

    MiG-31 Zaslon 110 km 240 km
    Tracks 10 guides 4

    MiG-35 RP-35 140 km 300 km

    Mirage F.1 Cyrano IV 45 km 96 km max

    Mirage 2000C-S1 to &#8211;S3 RDM 85 km 110 km

    Mirage 2000C-S4/5 RDI 110 km 190 km

    Mirage 2000-5 RDY 130-140 km 275 km

    Rafale RBE vs 130 km 275 km

    Sea Harrier FRS.1 Blue Fox 37 km 95 km

    Sea Harrier FA.2 Blue Vixen 110+ km 150 km max

    Su-27 110 km 240 km max

    Su-35 planned to be: 190 km 400 km

    Tornado F.3 AI24 Foxhunter 100 km 210 km
    w. Stage 2G radar (1991) 185 km large fighter 260 km
    Track 40 targets. Originally no close range modes.
     
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  15. Manticore

    Manticore ADVISORS

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    Hi guys, i found this relevant info on the web, while i was searching for jft 's rcs----- but couldnt find a single article jf17s rcs...

    [all i could find was that due to dsi, the frontal rcs decreases by 30&#37;]-----any help in this regard would be appreciated!