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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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Usama86

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The US has since changed its stance and made it very clear that RD is indeed related to the US embassy in Islamabad and not to the Consulate in Lahore as was claimed earlier.

Post 3351 is irrelevant now.
Hey HBS guy... why the FO has not taken a clear stance on the issue is anyones guess, but the majority oppinion here in Pakistan is that since all the heavy weights in the US poltical set-up have put there weight behind diplomatic immunity for Davis this puts Pakistan govt in a difficult situation, it would now take a miracle for FO to defy its master and speak words of its own free will. Our government thinks it cannot function without US aid and for that reason doesnot want to anger them. Now the govt is hidding behind the courts in saying that court will decide when infact it is the FO's reponsibility to speak on the matter. As of now the court has asked to submit a certificate of immunty to Davis for which the govt. has asked for 3 weeks time until then the proceeds have been stoped. Ex-Fm is ready to testify that Davis has no diplomtic immunity so the govt is stuck between a rock and a hard place hence the best way out is to buy time and find another way out. One thing is clear is that Davis at most has consular immunity which doesnot cover a grave crime like murder. I hope you would not bring the self-defence argument up because it has been used past its expire date now, the police in its challan has clearly stated that they believe this was a cold blooded murder and have provided various reasons uncovered during investigation which if you ask i can tell you.
 

The HBS Guy

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Hey HBS guy... why the FO has not taken a clear stance on the issue is anyones guess, but the majority oppinion here in Pakistan is that since all the heavy weights in the US poltical set-up have put there weight behind diplomatic immunity for Davis this puts Pakistan govt in a difficult situation, it would now take a miracle for FO to defy its master and speak words of its own free will. Our government thinks it cannot function without US aid and for that reason doesnot want to anger them. Now the govt is hidding behind the courts in saying that court will decide when infact it is the FO's reponsibility to speak on the matter. As of now the court has asked to submit a certificate of immunty to Davis for which the govt. has asked for 3 weeks time until then the proceeds have been stoped. Ex-Fm is ready to testify that Davis has no diplomtic immunity so the govt is stuck between a rock and a hard place hence the best way out is to buy time and find another way out. One thing is clear is that Davis at most has consular immunity which doesnot cover a grave crime like murder. I hope you would not bring the self-defence argument up because it has been used past its expire date now, the police in its challan has clearly stated that they believe this was a cold blooded murder and have provided various reasons uncovered during investigation which if you ask i can tell you.
My dear what you're saying is Pakistan's internal politics and problem. International conventions do not depend on Pakistan's internal problems.
 

American Eagle

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Hi right back to you, Masta-Mastan

he spent some time with the aforementioned 'strange people' up in the restive north -where naswar is often consumed. I guess those people left some influence on him :D
No one here in the West believes for a minute that anything other than the first police report of what was found in Davis's car exists or existed. This is a major untruth regarding naswar and is a planted, phoney story as the officials got more and more upset at the fact of this being a pure and simple failed armed robbery attempt.
 

Gin ka Pakistan

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No one here in the West believes for a minute that anything other than the first police report of what was found in Davis's car exists or existed. This is a major untruth regarding naswar and is a planted, phoney story as the officials got more and more upset at the fact of this being a pure and simple failed armed robbery attempt.
So many in Pakistan think that 9/11 was a inside job :whistle:
 

notorious_eagle

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Sir,

These 10o nuc weapons storage would be destroyed in their storage lots----the u s knows that pak needs 4---8 hours to load, assemble and program the nucs----that is all the time to disengage them----.
I am not going to spill out beans but i can tell you it will take less than an hour to assemble the nukes, there are several contingency plans in place to deal with several different envisioned threats. Pakistan has more than 10 nuclear weapons storage facilities, that i can guarantee you and they are evenly spread out throughout the country. Some have dummy warheads based inside them and some have real warheads, what makes you think PA has not on purpose lead the Americans to believe that storage facilities with dummy warheads are facilities with the real warheads. No doubt Americans are aware of some of the storage facilities but they are not aware of all of them. After what has happened now with all this Davis incident, expect the Pakistan Army to seal its lips when it comes to our nukes. The Americans have just shot themselves in the foot, i cant possibly imagine PA and ISI cooperating with the Americans on the same level as before unless they offer us F22 Raptors.
 

Gin ka Pakistan

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I think Pakistan will sooner or later will release him but this will give every diplomat in the world the right to carry weapons. Mastan can Pakistan diplomats can carry weapons in US?? for self defense and can shot any one if they think is robbing them ????
 

Usama86

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My dear what you're saying is Pakistan's internal politics and problem. International conventions do not depend on Pakistan's internal problems.
My friend not every thing in this world is in black and white. Infact everything is in grey with shades of black and white, we also want our share of the grey area in this world.
 

The HBS Guy

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My friend not every thing in this world is in black and white. Infact everything is in grey with shades of black and white, we also want our share of the grey area in this world.
And do you have it in you to stand up and back yourselves up when push comes to shove?

Do you have it in you to walk the talk?
 

Gin ka Pakistan

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After studding set up of Iraq and Afghanistan current governments, its confirm that they are in Power as long as US is on their soil. Shitte governments in both countries came in power by supporting US presence on their soil and using US rainbows to crush Sunnis extremists. never the less you get briefcase full of $$$$ to put in Dubai s banks by supporting US.

There is a cry in Pakistan that Punjab is becoming hub of Sunni extremist and PML (N) supports them (which is true too) and Shitte in Pakistan will do the same through their President in power to invite US rainbows like Davis to crush Sunni extremism in Punjab.

Too bad the US rainbow killed people who were not the bad guys and is in trouble. quietly every one supports Drones attacks in Pakistan as you know they target the bad guys but in Davis case he went to far.
 

Awesome

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No one here in the West believes for a minute that anything other than the first police report of what was found in Davis's car exists or existed. This is a major untruth regarding naswar and is a planted, phoney story as the officials got more and more upset at the fact of this being a pure and simple failed armed robbery attempt.
Your British buds, aren't so convinced:

THE UK's GUARDIAN CONFIRMS RAYMOND DAVIS IS A CIA AGENT

American who sparked diplomatic crisis over Lahore shooting was CIA spy | World news | The Guardian

The American who shot dead two men on a Lahore street, triggering a diplomatic crisis between Pakistan and the United States, is a CIA agent who was on assignment at the time of the incident.

Raymond Davis has been the subject of widespread speculation since he opened fire with a semi-automatic Glock pistol on the two men who had pulled up alongside his car at a red light on 25 January.

Pakistani authorities charged him with murder, but the Obama administration has insisted he is an "administrative and technical official" attached to its Lahore consulate and is entitled to diplomatic immunity.

Based on interviews in the US and Pakistan, the Guardian can confirm that the 36-year-old former special forces soldier is employed by the CIA. "It's beyond a shadow of a doubt," said a senior Pakistani intelligence official.

The revelation may complicate American efforts to free Davis, who says he acted in self-defence when he opened fire on two men, both of whom were carrying guns.

Pakistani prosecutors, who say the men were petty criminals trying to rob him at gunpoint, accuse the spy of using excessive force, getting out of his car to shoot one of them twice in the back as he ran away. The man's body was discovered 30 feet from his motorbike.

"It went way beyond what we define as self-defence. It was not commensurate with the threat," a senior police official involved in the case told the Guardian.

The Pakistani government is aware of Davis's CIA status yet has kept quiet in the face of immense American pressure to free him under the Vienna convention. Last week President Barack Obama described Davis as "our diplomat" and dispatched his chief diplomatic troubleshooter, Senator John Kerry, to Islamabad. Kerry returned home empty-handed.

Many Pakistanis are outraged at the idea of an armed American rampaging through their second largest city; some analysts have warned of Egyptian-style protests if Davis is released. The government, fearful of a furious public backlash, says it needs until 14 March to decide whether Davis enjoys immunity.

Outrage has been heightened by the death of a third man who was crushed by an American vehicle as it rushed to Davis's aid. Pakistani officials believe the vehicle's occupants were also CIA because they came from the same suburban house where Davis lived and were heavily armed.

The US refused Pakistani demands to interrogate the two men and on Sunday a senior Pakistani intelligence official said they had left the country. "They have flown the coop, they are already in America," he said.

ABC News reported that the men had the same diplomatic visa as Davis. It is not unusual for US intelligence officers, like their counterparts round the world, to carry diplomatic passports.

The US has engaged in an edgy public relations offensive to free Davis, accusing Pakistan of illegally detaining him and riding roughshod over international treaties. Angry politicians have proposed slashing Islamabad's $1.5bn (about £900m) annual aid; the state department repeatedly describes him as "a member of the administrative and technical staff of the US embassy in Islamabad".

But Washington's case is hobbled by its resounding silence on Davis's background and role. Davis served in the US special forces for 10 years before leaving in 2003 to become a private security contractor. A senior Pakistani official said he believed Davis worked with Xe, the controversial firm formerly known as Blackwater, before joining the CIA.

Pakistani suspicions about Davis's role were stoked by the equipment police confiscated from his car after the shooting: an unlicensed pistol, a long-range radio, a GPS device, an infrared torch and a camera with pictures of buildings around Lahore.

"This is not the work of a diplomat. He was doing espionage and surveillance activities," said the Punjab law minister, Rana Sanaullah, adding that he had "confirmation" that Davis was a CIA employee.

A number of US media outlets later learned about Davis's CIA role but have kept it under wraps at the request of the Obama administration, which fears that disclosure could inflame opinion in Pakistan and possibly put Davis at risk.

A Colorado television station, 9NEWS, initially made a connection after speaking to Davis's wife, who lives outside Denver. She referred its inquiries to a number in Washington which turned out to be the CIA. The station subsequently removed the CIA reference from its website at the request of the US government.

[Asim's note: Man I knew it, the answers to Davis's identity lie in what could be found digging around his wife!]

Nicole Vap, an executive producer, said: "Because of the safety concerns, we decided to amend the story. But it remains accurate."

The episode has badly damaged relations between the CIA and the ISI, Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency. Some reports, quoting Pakistani intelligence officials, have suggested that the men Davis killed, Faizan Haider, 21, and Muhammad Faheem, 19, were ISI agents with orders to shadow Davis because he crossed an unspecified "red line".

A senior police official, however, confirmed American claims that the men were petty thieves – investigators found stolen mobile phones on their bodies, as well as small amounts of foreign currency and illegal weapons – but did not rule out an intelligence link.

A senior ISI official denied the dead men worked for the spy agency but admitted the CIA relationship had been badly damaged. "Their tactics of using good cop, bad cop do not work. We are a sovereign country and if they want to work with us, they need to develop a trusting relationship on the basis of equality. Being arrogant and demanding is not the way to do it," he said.

Tensions between the spy agencies have grown in recent months. The CIA Islamabad station chief was forced to leave in December after being named in a civil lawsuit, and the ISI was angered when its chief, General Shuja Pasha, was named in a New York lawsuit related to the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Although the two spy services co-operate in the CIA's drone campaign along the Afghan border, there has not been a drone strike since 23 January – the longest lull since June 2009. Experts are unsure whether both events are linked.

With the next hearing scheduled for 14 March, Davis awaits his fate in Kot Lakhpat jail in Lahore. Pakistani officials say they have taken exceptional measures to ensure his safety, including ringing the prison with paramilitary Punjab Rangers. The law minister, Sanaullah, said Davis was being kept in a "high security zone" and was receiving food from visitors from the US consulate.

Sanaullah said another 140 foreigners were in the same facility, many on drugs charges. Several press reports have speculated that the authorities worry the US could try to spring Davis in what one termed a "Hollywood-style sting".

"All measures for his security have been taken," said the ISI official. "He's as safe as can be."
At least all major Pakistani news outlets are saying "He probably is a CIA spy", the British media have already announced its verdict! So you either need to redefine the word "west" or you need to change your statement. Its only the US media that is still insisting on toeing the official US line (that too I can present some cracks in their own beliefs now), others have moved on. Russians have also corroborated the story that he was a CIA spy and even went so far as to give his unit number and give two counts of criminal assistance to Pakistan's (and the American people's by large) enemies.
 

DV RULES

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I am not going to spill out beans but i can tell you it will take less than an hour to assemble the nukes, there are several contingency plans in place to deal with several different envisioned threats. Pakistan has more than 10 nuclear weapons storage facilities, that i can guarantee you and they are evenly spread out throughout the country. Some have dummy warheads based inside them and some have real warheads, what makes you think PA has not on purpose lead the Americans to believe that storage facilities with dummy warheads are facilities with the real warheads. No doubt Americans are aware of some of the storage facilities but they are not aware of all of them. After what has happened now with all this Davis incident, expect the Pakistan Army to seal its lips when it comes to our nukes. The Americans have just shot themselves in the foot, i cant possibly imagine PA and ISI cooperating with the Americans on the same level as before unless they offer us F22 Raptors.
Good points,
but a very few aware of this facts. So let them in status of unawareness. Pakistan well aware from his defense.
 

Awesome

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Ok going to put this thread on hold, as I'm sure the next few days would be ruled by Raymond's CIA status being confirmed. Will re-open it as that subsides and other matters come in.
 

Abu Zolfiqar

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At least all major Pakistani news outlets are saying "He probably is a CIA spy", the British media have already announced its verdict! So you either need to redefine the word "west" or you need to change your statement. Its only the US media that is still insisting on toeing the official US line (that too I can present some cracks in their own beliefs now), others have moved on. Russians have also corroborated the story that he was a CIA spy and even went so far as to give his unit number and give two counts of criminal assistance to Pakistan's (and the American people's by large) enemies.
this needs to be given a lot of attention......

it seems in this particular case, you dig a two meter grave and you could find 2 or 3 bodies

dig a four meter grave and you could find 75
 
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