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Rafale jets are not enough to face Pakistani JF 17: Shahid Latif

Indos

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For a country the size of India, 36 Rafale aircraft are just not enough. Indonesia ordered 80 just now.

India took 15 years to get 36 aircraft. While Qatar and Egypt which started negotiations recently already have same numbers.

This shows how slow and out of tune India's procurement is.

Also, for Indian members. Before you brag about who you are, just remember Feb 27th, 2019. PAF outclassed India. Your services chiefs, with grim faces, were complaining to USA holding AIM-120C5 shrapnel. This means the BVR missile killed your aircraft. This missile by the way has a very high kill ratio. So definitely your Su-30MKI was shot down, which you indirectly admitted.

We just bough 6 planes and the foreign loan is not even activated yet LOL

Wet dream from our defense minister, Prabowo Subianto, doesnt mean it will be translated into order. Indonesia government is very economics oriented since 1968 under Soeharto regime and even continue until this Jokowi administration.

Those MinDef plan need screening and approval from both Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance, so far they only approve 6 Rafale planes where the contract was signed in February 2022.
 

Signalian

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The JF-17 is a platform with a flight profile that if employed with the right mission planning and tactics would be a match for the Rafale. Chinese electronics have fast caught up to western systems (at least European systems), so its conceivable on a one to one T/R module basis they are a match, but the smaller radar of the JF-17 is the limitation, hence the need for a larger J-10 platform.

The J-10 fleet will probably go to 90+ per past PAF history of other planes and will be used to deal with the Rafales and F/A-18s, while the JF-17 will be there for all other platforms.

Having said that the JF-17 should be pushed to its limits of its design (internal electronic upgrades and decoys; such as sensors with AI to let the pilot know where enemy missiles inbound are maneuvering towards the aircraft so the pilot can take the right moves and launch necessary micro missile decoys; both projects underdevelopment in the west) to deal with even these two frontline IAF/IN platforms.
The comparison may not be fair - Flexibility of JFT for PAF Vs Capability of Rafale for IAF.

If you delve into flexibility that JFT offers, there are many positives for PAF which were not present in past. The ability to replace lost aircraft, to test new missiles and pods, to fly without embargo or restrictions, to generate new blocks as per own requirements, to equip with modified electronics including radar, availability of COTS systems for unrestricted integration, manufacture in house and abroad, a domestic EW variant of aircraft etc.
Rafale can definitely carry more armament, travel more distance, has more powerful engines, is a generation ahead of JFT (older blocks at least), brings a purely western system to IAF etc. While some of the above points for JFT are also functional with Rafale for IAF, both aircrafts might be performing different roles for their respective airforces.
 

arslank03

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It is shameful that people like Shahid Latif make bold claims and belittle jets such as Rafale which is considered one of the best 4.5++ Gen Jet of the century, He could rather focus on the positives of Thunders but trying to belittle top of the line French technology which is considered best of the best is just shameful!/
1 Rafale= almost 7 JF-17's, if not, more. You tell me now if you had a single Rafale, or 7 JF-17s, which are you taking in a fight? One JF-17 b3 can bring up to 5 PL-15 and 2 PL-10E alongside a SPJ to a fight(according to the PAC poster, unrealistic loadout though), so, now, when you think about it this way, is 36 rafales enough? Because we have 36 J-10C on order in the first batch, alongside a similar amount of JF-17 B3, with more to come.
 

drunken-monke

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Pakistan has not purchased any aircraft except J-10C in last year only. PAF has been comfortably been manufacturing their own since last decade & exporting some.

You don't recall Jf-17s better than HAL Tejas because you are mis-informed, falsified data, Fabrication of facts on ground realities of HAL tejas the flying coffin needless I need to say more or waste my time on outdated technology that even the IAF has failed to order Tejas in its air force, WHY?

J10C remember the focus of topic is Indian - Pakistan only who is bringing Eurofighter or Typhoon into the picture. Rafale will be taken care of by jf-17s Block II regardless of Block III's. Block III's are equal if not superior to radar of Rafales of what they have equipped with PL-15s.
Tejas Flying coffin?? How many Tejas crashed till date?? Not to mention the total numbers, IAF has more than 30 aircrafts flying without any incident.

How many crashes JF 17 suffered? 4 if I am not mistaken..

So, your point is invalid.
 
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BON PLAN

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In fact, the diameter of the radar antenna of the jf-17 is larger than that of the Rafale fighter. But at the same time, there is a big gap between the two sides in the combat thrust-to-weight ratio. The Rafale undoubtedly has better flight performance.
The size is one thing. The mastery of an AESA radar, a masterpiece in electronic system, another.
The chinese weapon system are all not combat proven. They are not bench marked in trainings against potent west counterparts. They are mainly direct derivatives of russian weapons, and the ukrainian war is not really a nice selling argument for russain an so chinese products.

And the radar is a part of a fighter weapon system. How is the rest? How potent is the electronic counter measures sytem of JF17 or J10? Is there a data fusion?
 

Catalystic

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Only major fights/wars will actually test all these new jets as well as flying capabilities of their pilots…..in older fights and wars we’ve seem mirages, migs, f16s and others but not these new planes…..

Will we see such in our lifetimes?
Thats the real question

Ghazwa e Hind final battle may surprise us….soon
 

BON PLAN

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In fact, the diameter of the radar antenna of the jf-17 is larger than that of the Rafale fighter. But at the same time, there is a big gap between the two sides in the combat thrust-to-weight ratio. The Rafale undoubtedly has better flight performance.
The size is one thing. The mastery of an AESA radar, a masterpiece in electronic system, another.
The chinese weapon system are all not combat proven. They are not bench marked in trainings against potent west counterparts. They are mainly direct derivatives of russian weapons, and the ukrainian war is not really a nice selling argument for russain an so chinese products.
Hopefully a derivative design will be developed that will use the WS-19; 120 kn engine. Hopefully that combination will be enough to achieve the full potential of the platform’s flight profile and electronics, similar to the way the F-16 Block 60’s F-110-GE-132 engine allowed the use of an AESA radar and full employment of the F-16’s flight profile.
No. JF17 is already a son of Mig21. Using it to make another son will be a mistake (as Boeing with the last version of B737...).
J10 is the right answer for Pak.
 

BON PLAN

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Jf17 block 3 is not in the league of Rafale but the question is can 150+ Jf17s defend Pakistan against the threats of 36 Rafale and the answer is yes they can, they have long range radar and missiles/jamming.
J10C is also not the same level as Rafale or Euro fighter but its a major threat to Indian airforce until India inducts a 5th generation Jet. For paf this is enough.

People are also forgetting about the mighty dangerous Su30MKI, it was supposed to destroy all Pakistani airforce but even the older f16s were enough to scare them away. We still have the f16s block 52s yet to be used against the Indian airforce. Overall paf has done its homework to counter the Indian threat.
Yes and No.
Yes number is also a quality. But the 36 Rafale will never be used alone to face 150 JF17. Su30, back and or higher will also be there.

The reputation of the S-400 is a bit tarnished after unit being destroyed in Ukraine by the very thing it is supposed to shoot down.
The last news is that no S400 was deployed in Ukraine. Nor by Ukr army or by the russian one.
If you have a source....
 

BON PLAN

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For a country the size of India, 36 Rafale aircraft are just not enough. Indonesia ordered 80 just now.

India took 15 years to get 36 aircraft. While Qatar and Egypt which started negotiations recently already have same numbers.

This shows how slow and out of tune India's procurement is.

Also, for Indian members. Before you brag about who you are, just remember Feb 27th, 2019. PAF outclassed India. Your services chiefs, with grim faces, were complaining to USA holding AIM-120C5 shrapnel. This means the BVR missile killed your aircraft. This missile by the way has a very high kill ratio. So definitely your Su-30MKI was shot down, which you indirectly admitted.
Yes, 36 Rafale is far too few. But at least another batch will be ordered, because IAF and the indian politic brass will never made the same mistake than with M2000 or Mig 29 : too few number.
No Indonesia didn't purchase 80 birds. It's UAE ! Indonesia inked a deal for 6 (with no payment so far = production not lauched) and 36 on option.

In the feb27th, 2019 the attacker was Pak : it was easy as you take India by surprise. And you didn't mastered the fight so well : how many precious AMRAAM you fired without result at too far targets without any chance to shoot ?
 

Zarvan

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JF-17 specially BLOCK III and upcoming BLOCK IV are really good planes but Rafale is a beast so I in patriotism won't go blind. That being said 36 Rafale is not enough. Not even close !!!
 

Olympus81

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India was expecting an attack the day after it violated Pakistan’s airspace in Balakot. So the attack wasn’t a surprise.

What was a surprise was an attack in the morning during India’s AWACS changeover. The tactics were a surprise.
 

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