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Rafale is not a Game Changer - Senior Analyst Shahzad Chaudhry

May 4, 2019
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Bla bla bla, I joined this forum almost 5 years ago and since then I've been told thousands of time that iaf flankers are mini awacs and raptors of east. I still remember countless posts from Indians about how flankers with their superior radars will jam Paf assets and shot down Paf fighters before they even leav their bases. But the truth is when the most important time came your flankers failed to perform their jobs, first they couldn't intercept paf strike package and then they also Lost one aircraft to falcons. Accept it and move on, win or lose is part of the game, no aircraft is invincible. You can't change past.
As i said, it was all about missile range.

If there is a guy fully talented and qualified but you will send him in war with knife only and other hands,15 years old boy having sniffer gun.... then guy quality become null.

But the truth is when the most important time came your flankers failed to perform their jobs, first they couldn't intercept paf strike package and then they also Lost one aircraft to falcons.

Wrong, it was complete failure of PAf becoz even they were not able to engaged.

Flankers was failed due to missile range and not because of capably. Now, Su 30 mki is equipped with 110 KM BVR missiles then now story will be different.

It was a small incident on 26th and 27th March, 26th was won by IAF but 27th was won by PAF in better way with shooting down Mig 21 and forced Su 30mki to go for defensive.
 

Irfan Baloch

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your awacs failed to detect 12 mirages in February 2019 that came across loc up to 80km.
you are partially wrong here, the 12 Mirages didnt fly 80 KM across the LoC but used stand off weapons i.e the glide bombs that did cross the LoC and international border and actually hit the ground in Balakot.

what you got right is that the 12 Mirages fleet and its escort jets did manage to return back safely. Also the complaint by Modi that cloud cover prevented the bombs to hit the alleged terror camp also rules out the bombing success so the only victory was that any of the 12 Mirages didnt get shot down.

as for detection, they were marked and CAP PAF jets were sent to intercept. since they remained on Indian side of LoC or maybe only crossed for maybe few KM while making a loop to return for few minutes.

what was successful for IAF was to make some mock flights near Bahawalpur and Lahore etc and kept PAF jets occupied. so there was enough time to lob the spiced bombs and return and the ROE were clear that IAF jets must not be shot at if they were not on Pakistani side.
this obviously changed on 27 February when the SU 30 was shot down and fell in Rajori and the AMRAAM Missile that downed the Jet was shown by the IAF leadership.
If failed, then why the fK* IAF buzz-out from the skies while dropping payloads? We know that majority of cow-smoothie-drinkers hardly do any cognitive thinking before making an argument but don't worry, let me simplify things for you how things are working in the real world. You took advantage of PAF CAP formation when they were vectoring towards the west. Despite patrolling in the opposite direction, they successfully enforced their supremacy on the skies. The pursuit towards the east for head-to-head engagement with your kacha phati longi force within no time if you calculate the distance. Oh, **** you guys were left without confrontation after seeing the opponent's fast eagles on the radar lol...
the cloud cover, lack of Rafales, SWISS AWACS and the American AMRAAM missiles were to blame.
this is why IAF couldnt do what the fantasy tellers are trying to tell since coming out of the shock.
by the way please go easy on jokes and slurs . you are still doing a good job without bringing bringing the drinking and dressing differences.
 

graphican

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It was a small incident on 26th and 27th March, 26th was won by IAF but 27th was won by PAF in better way with shooting down Mig 21 and forced Su 30mki to go for defensive.
If 26 was a victory for India, you must have achieved your goals which were..... ? Rest assured wooden Madrassa with a tin roof is still standing as it was. If IAF's objective was to miss its targets and gift Spice 2000 to Pakistan to reverse engineer and then sure, India has won. Should we clap for you?
 
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Reichsmarschall

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Flankers was failed due to missile range and not because of capably. Now, Su 30 mki is equipped with 110 KM BVR missiles then now story will be different.
Such a sore loser you're.
By your logic Europeans who eliminated tribes after tribes of stick welding Africans with their guns are Losers and they only succeeded because they had superior weapons while real winners are vanquihed Africans who now have guns.
 

Stealth

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As i said, it was all about missile range.

If there is a guy fully talented and qualified but you will send him in war with knife only and other hands,15 years old boy having sniffer gun.... then guy quality become null.

But the truth is when the most important time came your flankers failed to perform their jobs, first they couldn't intercept paf strike package and then they also Lost one aircraft to falcons.

Wrong, it was complete failure of PAf becoz even they were not able to engaged.

Flankers was failed due to missile range and not because of capably. Now, Su 30 mki is equipped with 110 KM BVR missiles then now story will be different.

It was a small incident on 26th and 27th March, 26th was won by IAF but 27th was won by PAF in better way with shooting down Mig 21 and forced Su 30mki to go for defensive.
The argument should be based on ground realities and with the evidence. In the past, despite rejecting all the media reports by the late MOEF, the Tri-Chiefs of Indian Armed Forces, and the BJP spokesperson, still general Indian public believes that IAF had killed 300 terrorists in the fake surgical strikes.

BJP Minister SS Ahluwalia, “I’ve followed both the Indian and international media. I’ve listened to PM Modi as well. Did he say that 300 people were killed? Did any BJP spokesperson confirm this? Did Amit Shah say any such thing? No"

Pakistan has all the pieces of evidence whatever we claims unlike your bravado country, govt and ur fake military who have nothing to support their fake victories and award pilots with “missile dodgers” patch. For the literates, the award says everything...

.... and that was your entire achievement.... your mirages and sukois returned home safely without being shot down... where as your opponent bombed your mil installations, lockedon your submarine, hold your POW, presented full video of stand-of-weapon including the wreckage ff your aircraft and the top of it, not a single country standing behind or beside you on your fairy-tale claims in the entire world.

What a fucking humiliation of any country in the 21st century who self proclaimed supwa powa with 3rd largest military might got banged by the 5 times smaller opponent in the broad day light.
 
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Irfan Baloch

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Did anyone ever provide conclusive evidence of this?
define conclusive evidence.

while you are thinking to deliberate I just want to let you know that the Americans brought sweets at the F-16 Block 52 base to celebrate the downing the Russian premier fighter jet by their American made F-16 once the electronic mission feed was shared with them and for them it was conclusive.
 

Taimur Khurram

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define conclusive evidence.

while you are thinking to deliberate I just want to let you know that the Americans brought sweets at the F-16 Block 52 base to celebrate the downing the Russian premier fighter jet by their American made F-16 once the electronic mission feed was shared with them and for them it was conclusive.
Have you got a source for that claim? And why wouldn't it just be a celebration of the MiG-21Bis being shot down?

When I say conclusive I mean something direct such as documentation of the wreckage, admission of its existence from the enemies, eye witnesses affirming that they saw the wreckage, India's Su-30MKI inventory mysteriously going down, etc. Try me.
 

Irfan Baloch

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If 26 was a victory for India, you must have achieved your goals which were..... ? Rest assured wooden Madrassa with a tin roof is still standing as it was. If IAF's objective was to miss its targets and gift Spice 2000 to Pakistan to reverse engineer and then sure, India has won. Should we clap for you?
I am not sure about the 26 Feb Indian victory because Modi made it questionable by blaming the cloud cover and then the lack of Rafales and later the Indians blamed the Spice kit.
and then they blamed the Pakistani F-16s.

I mean it was everybody else's fault

the weather
the PAF
the Israelis (two times, I will explain later why two times)
the Americans

that they failed in their strike and then they got spanked at 9 AM. in the broad day light. so why Israelis were to blame twice? well first because their Spice kit failed to do the magic for them and second when the scorpion missile system shot down the Indian helicopter sent on SAR mission to retrieve the pilot of the shot down SU 30.
Have you got a source for that claim? And why wouldn't it just be a celebration of the MiG-21Bis being shot down?

When I say conclusive I mean something direct such as documentation of the wreckage, admission of its existence from the enemies, eye witnesses affirming that they saw the wreckage, India's Su-30MKI inventory mysteriously going down, etc. Try me.
the source is shot down and seen spread over with charred bodies in and around the burning remains of the Helicopter that was sent on SAR mission after the SU 30 got shot down.

the sweets have already been consumed and even if I get the radar and sensor data somehow from PAF then neither you or I will understand it no matter how much we bitch over it. ;) :sarcastic:
 
May 4, 2019
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I am not sure about the 26 Feb Indian victory because Modi made it questionable by blaming the cloud cover and then the lack of Rafales and later the Indians blamed the Spice kit.
and then they blamed the Pakistani F-16s.

I mean it was everybody else's fault

the weather
the PAF
the Israelis (two times, I will explain later why two times)
the Americans

that they failed in their strike and then they got spanked at 9 AM. in the broad day light. so why Israelis were to blame twice? well first because their Spice kit failed to do the magic for them and second when the scorpion missile system shot down the Indian helicopter sent on SAR mission to retrieve the pilot of the shot down SU 30.

the source is shot down and seen spread over with charred bodies in and around the burning remains of the Helicopter that was sent on SAR mission after the SU 30 got shot down.

the sweets have already been consumed and even if I get the radar and sensor data somehow from PAF then neither you or I will understand it no matter how much we bitch over it. ;) :sarcastic:
I count IAF victory on 26th not because they were able to hit the target or missed the target but PAF was not able to engage even on that day.

Other hands, IAF was able to engaged with PAF on another day but I count victory of PAF because they shown to the world that IAF is having many loopholes i.e Awacs, Missile ranges, unsecure communication -older aircrafts etc. And also able to shoot down a mig 21.

But claiming of shoot down a Su 30 mki is just comparable claim to shoot down a f16.. nothing less and nothing more............ credibility of both claims are actually null.
 
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Fighting Falcon 01

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that's your version
the indian version is different

you did not cross the line of control your 20 planes tried to launch amraams way beyond the no escape zone firing 6 amraams at su30mki.

the mki pilots were easily able to overcome your poor tactics and you guys fled at the mere sight of 4 mki and 4 mirages .

the mig21 lost gcc and crossed loc and was shot down but did lock on take out your f16 .

your bvr tactics showed a lack.of training as your pilots did not wait for lock on and all f16 shots missed their target.

like I said it's your veiw versus indian veiw.

anyway it's about Rafale not feb 2019 killing a 70 year old mig21

ps a spanking is not one mig21

spanking is what the Israelis do to Arabs kill.ratios 20 to 1

your idea of spanking is shallow
We did not flee ... your mirage 2000s were making excuses of radar malfunctions while facing JF 17 formation and fled the scene.... the su 30s were dancing saving themselves from missiles couldn't get a firing solution I thought it was raptor of the east mini awacs lol ..... spanking is shooting down a fighter aircraft and then parading your pilot on your border ..... indian views are filled with NDTV propaganda... you guys failed on that day miserably all your so called Fake claims were debunked by international media and now you guys have nothing to show but make up facts to satisfy yourselves.....
 

Irfan Baloch

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I count IAF victory on 26th not because they were able to hit the target or missed the target but PAF was not able to engage even on that day.

Other hands, IAF was able to engaged with PAF on another day but I count victory of PAF because they shown to the world that IAF is having many loopholes i.e Awacs, Missile ranges, unsecure communication -older aircrafts etc. And also able to shoot down a mig 21.

But claiming of shoot down a Su 30 mki is just comparable claim to shoot down a f16.. nothing less and nothing more............ credibility of both claims are actually null.
thanks for your input.
the comparison of F-16 vs SU30 depends on what is shown (to people who know) and how much it is acceptable to a loyal or neutral person,. the wreckage of engine claimed to be of F-16 turned out to be of Mig 21 first and in another evidence then it turned out of be GE Engine whereas Pakistani F-16s use Prat and Whitney.
as for SU 30. the radar / sensor data is never shared and even if it was it wont be good enough for us people unless if its a high resolution and clear video of missile impacting , pilot with camera focused on his shoulder patches close up etc.
Americans based in Pakistan are said to be celebrating who are here to monitor our F-16.
NOT because an IAF plane was shot down but because a Russian top jet was defeated by an American jet.
 

The Maverick

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guys we are off topic

the topic is how will pakistan answer the threat of the world's best late 4th generation fighter frances magnificent dassult Rafale.

there's,only 36 but combine these as Force multiplier with 45 mirage2000 dash 5 and 260 plus,mki that's a serious threat

future cap may be

4 Rafale 4 mig29 and 4 su30mki

or 4 Rafale 4 mirage2000 and 4 tejas

or 4 Rafale 4 mirage2000 4 su30mki

there all good mixes
 

Glaiviator

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guys we are off topic

the topic is how will pakistan answer...
Small change to your question. How has Pakistan countered the threat of Rafales(and others). PAF doesn't announce every little detail of its achievements. When you hear a new announcement by PAF, ask yourself the question. When did this really happen and how much more are they hiding?
 
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guys we are off topic

the topic is how will pakistan answer the threat of the world's best late 4th generation fighter frances magnificent dassult Rafale.

there's,only 36 but combine these as Force multiplier with 45 mirage2000 dash 5 and 260 plus,mki that's a serious threat

future cap may be

4 Rafale 4 mig29 and 4 su30mki

or 4 Rafale 4 mirage2000 and 4 tejas

or 4 Rafale 4 mirage2000 4 su30mki

there all good mixes
Yeah yeah whatever, every weapons that India buys or have to is world best,what a stupid logic you have, in that case Saudi Arabia will claim their EFT is world best 4 gen fighter jet, THIS WORLD BEST THINGY IS USELESS AND BASELESS TERM, EVERY FIGHTER HAVE ITS PROS AND CONS
 

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