What's new

Rafale is not a Game Changer - Senior Analyst Shahzad Chaudhry

The Maverick

FULL MEMBER
Jan 4, 2016
1,211
-11
987
Country
India
Location
United Kingdom
Only reason PAF will buy J10C is if the PAF feel the Radar & jammers on Block 3 are too limited in performance to get the best out of the PL15 BVR missle. VERSIS the bigger J10C plane and cockpit.

Please note 300km range quoted on PL15 is for large AWACS planes
Combat planes the BVR range is 200km on PL5 still double the SD10 and better than 150km on meteore.

But BVR capability is about NEZ , eccm jammers on the missle, speed , stealth character of bvr missle and the radar and rcs etc of launching plane.

ITS not just range versis range.

Guy is right though Rafale will not fully intergrated for 12- 18 months minimum
 

serenity

FULL MEMBER
Jan 9, 2007
912
0
2,182
Country
China
Location
China
Only reason PAF will buy J10C is if the PAF feel the Radar & jammers on Block 3 are too limited in performance to get the best out of the PL15 BVR missle. VERSIS the bigger J10C plane and cockpit.

Please note 300km range quoted on PL15 is for large AWACS planes
Combat planes the BVR range is 200km on PL5 still double the SD10 and better than 150km on meteore.

But BVR capability is about NEZ , eccm jammers on the missle, speed , stealth character of bvr missle and the radar and rcs etc of launching plane.

ITS not just range versis range.

Guy is right though Rafale will not fully intergrated for 12- 18 months minimum
Yes but PL-15 range is actually not that long. Maybe this people have mixed up PL-15 with extended range ramjet missiles based on PL-12 and PL-15 missiles or the long range PL-21. PL-15 range is maybe 100km to 150km at maximum. PL-12 is 70km to maybe 120km depending on version now. Neither of these even come close to some range people on this forum suggest like 200km or more.

Also these range are absolute maximum. In real life the missile is simply almost useless against anything that can move at these greater than 100km range unless they are being fired to keep targets away. Same story with American and Russian missiles. Particularly Russian ones I think declare some unrealistic and useless range numbers. R-77 maximum useful range is maybe 70km to 100km depending of version. It is not easy to improve on these range unless you use ramjet or stage engines. anyway PL-15 is much less than 300km and most likely much less than 200km max range. It is quite thicker than PL-12 and little bit longer but its main improvement is electronic resistance and much more advanced and expensive seekers. So PLAAF keep using PL-12 upgrades as well as main BVR missile.
 

Fighting Falcon 01

FULL MEMBER
Dec 27, 2019
270
0
496
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Only reason PAF will buy J10C is if the PAF feel the Radar & jammers on Block 3 are too limited in performance to get the best out of the PL15 BVR missle. VERSIS the bigger J10C plane and cockpit.

Please note 300km range quoted on PL15 is for large AWACS planes
Combat planes the BVR range is 200km on PL5 still double the SD10 and better than 150km on meteore.

But BVR capability is about NEZ , eccm jammers on the missle, speed , stealth character of bvr missle and the radar and rcs etc of launching plane.

ITS not just range versis range.

Guy is right though Rafale will not fully intergrated for 12- 18 months minimum
Block 3 is under development at this time the first 2 units will be produced this year due to this slower production rate PAF is looking for a stop gap fighter to deal with Rafael not because block 3 is inferior ... you purchased Rafael aircraft this doesn't mean su 30mki mig 29 etc are shit ....
Yes but PL-15 range is actually not that long. Maybe this people have mixed up PL-15 with extended range ramjet missiles based on PL-12 and PL-15 missiles or the long range PL-21. PL-15 range is maybe 100km to 150km at maximum. PL-12 is 70km to maybe 120km depending on version now. Neither of these even come close to some range people on this forum suggest like 200km or more.

Also these range are absolute maximum. In real life the missile is simply almost useless against anything that can move at these greater than 100km range unless they are being fired to keep targets away. Same story with American and Russian missiles. Particularly Russian ones I think declare some unrealistic and useless range numbers. R-77 maximum useful range is maybe 70km to 100km depending of version. It is not easy to improve on these range unless you use ramjet or stage engines. anyway PL-15 is much less than 300km and most likely much less than 200km max range. It is quite thicker than PL-12 and little bit longer but its main improvement is electronic resistance and much more advanced and expensive seekers. So PLAAF keep using PL-12 upgrades as well as main BVR missile.
Nope you are wrong here PL 15 is using a dual pulse rocket motor it doesn't work like PL 12 which has a range of 100km max ... PL 15 has a range of around 140 to 160 km for fighter sized targets it's also using AESA seeker and jamming resistant tech ... the 200 km range is for aerial refueling aircraft transport aircraft etc ..... thicker and longer doesn't mean it will have long range or better aerodynamic performance the efficiency of fuel propellant and rocket motor used is also a factor...
 
Last edited:

The Maverick

FULL MEMBER
Jan 4, 2016
1,211
-11
987
Country
India
Location
United Kingdom
where Rafale eats most fighters for breakfast is it's ability to operate and fight without radar emissions just using spectra ew only. it's highly dangerous your Opposition will.not know you are there in either a deep. bombing raid or bvr engagement. the range of spectra is 60km as opposed rbe2 aesa is 200km .
India chose Rafale over super hornets or typhoon they did their homework well.
 

Fighting Falcon 01

FULL MEMBER
Dec 27, 2019
270
0
496
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
where Rafale eats most fighters for breakfast is it's ability to operate and fight without radar emissions just using spectra ew only. it's highly dangerous your Opposition will.not know you are there in either a deep. bombing raid or bvr engagement. the range of spectra is 60km as opposed rbe2 aesa is 200km .
India chose Rafale over super hornets or typhoon they did their homework well.
Sorry to burst your bubble but PAF has one of the largest AEW&C fleet in the world everything flying 400km from Indian border is being monitored and on ground YJ 27A radars are present to detect low RCS aircraft ..... F16s jf17s and even old mirages are using data links so nothing can sneak in on them without those aircraft being aware of the situation ....... I hope you don't come up with a story now on how the 7th gen Rafael can jam an AEW&C from 400km range
 

The Maverick

FULL MEMBER
Jan 4, 2016
1,211
-11
987
Country
India
Location
United Kingdom
Sorry to burst your bubble but PAF has one of the largest AEW&C fleet in the world everything flying 400km from Indian border is being monitored and on ground YJ 27A radars are present to detect low RCS aircraft ..... F16s jf17s and even old mirages are using data links so nothing can sneak in on them without those aircraft being aware of the situation ....... I hope you don't come up with a story now on how the 7th gen Rafael can jam an AEW&C from 400km range

your awacs failed to detect 12 mirages in February 2019 that came across loc up to 80km.
 

Stealth

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 30, 2009
9,697
51
20,943
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
your awacs failed to detect 12 mirages in February 2019 that came across loc up to 80km.
If failed, then why the fK* IAF buzz-out from the skies while dropping payloads? We know that majority of cow-smoothie-drinkers hardly do any cognitive thinking before making an argument but don't worry, let me simplify things for you how things are working in the real world. You took advantage of PAF CAP formation when they were vectoring towards the west. Despite patrolling in the opposite direction, they successfully enforced their supremacy on the skies. The pursuit towards the east for head-to-head engagement with your kacha phati longi force within no time if you calculate the distance. Oh, **** you guys were left without confrontation after seeing the opponent's fast eagles on the radar lol...
 
Last edited:

Fighting Falcon 01

FULL MEMBER
Dec 27, 2019
270
0
496
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
your awacs failed to detect 12 mirages in February 2019 that came across loc up to 80km.
If they had come 80km in they would have gone back in coffins.... they just dropped SOWs from long range and ran away this 80km drama is simply modi propaganda the CAP were redirected to the sector immediately had they stayed in 80km they would have been shot down in a second...... like to talk about failure let's talk then
1) your mirage 2000s radar malfunctioned while facing JF 17s although they were working ( ran away )
2) Your su 30s kept dancing in front of our aircraft and couldn't get a firing solution 2nd failure
3) your own early warning assets failed to detect a 20 aircraft formation approaching
4) your airforce panicked and shot down own helicopter killing your own another failure
5) your mig 21 pilot had the opportunity to have some tea after his wingman abandoned him
6) international embarrassment no one bought your propaganda fake claims were debunked again and again
7) modi cries Rafael hota tu spanking na hoti
I can go on but don't have time but as far as I remember your own government was begging Sweden not to sell us saab 2000s after feb 27 spanking......
 

The Maverick

FULL MEMBER
Jan 4, 2016
1,211
-11
987
Country
India
Location
United Kingdom
If they had come 80km in they would have gone back in coffins.... they just dropped SOWs from long range and ran away this 80km drama is simply modi propaganda the CAP were redirected to the sector immediately had they stayed in 80km they would have been shot down in a second...... like to talk about failure let's talk then
1) your mirage 2000s radar malfunctioned while facing JF 17s although they were working ( ran away )
2) Your su 30s kept dancing in front of our aircraft and couldn't get a firing solution 2nd failure
3) your own early warning assets failed to detect a 20 aircraft formation approaching
4) your airforce panicked and shot down own helicopter killing your own another failure
5) your mig 21 pilot had the opportunity to have some tea after his wingman abandoned him
6) international embarrassment no one bought your propaganda fake claims were debunked again and again
7) modi cries Rafael hota tu spanking na hoti
I can go on but don't have time but as far as I remember your own government was begging Sweden not to sell us saab 2000s after feb 27 spanking......

that's your version
the indian version is different

you did not cross the line of control your 20 planes tried to launch amraams way beyond the no escape zone firing 6 amraams at su30mki.

the mki pilots were easily able to overcome your poor tactics and you guys fled at the mere sight of 4 mki and 4 mirages .

the mig21 lost gcc and crossed loc and was shot down but did lock on take out your f16 .

your bvr tactics showed a lack.of training as your pilots did not wait for lock on and all f16 shots missed their target.

like I said it's your veiw versus indian veiw.

anyway it's about Rafale not feb 2019 killing a 70 year old mig21

ps a spanking is not one mig21

spanking is what the Israelis do to Arabs kill.ratios 20 to 1

your idea of spanking is shallow
 
Last edited:

Reichsmarschall

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 16, 2016
9,988
2
19,477
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
you did not cross the line of control your 20 planes tried to launch amraams way beyond the no escape zone firing 6 amraams at su30mki.
Bullocks, your own Sameer Joshi confessed that some Amraams were fired from as close as 30km, the only questions is - if F16s came 30km close to flankers why didn't they fire their own missiles. And I believe the answer was given by retired Indian army Colonel Praveen Sawheny - The sukhois were jammed by Paf EW assets and they had no idea what they're in. This explains why remaining flankers chickened out when their lead was shot down by Sqldr Hassan. Smart choice though, it's better to go home and fight other day than to fight and lose to a superior enemy force.
the mki pilots were easily able to overcome your poor tactics and you guys fled at the mere sight of 4 mki and 4 mirages .
You're a funny man, if falcons fled than who fired Amraams? Besides the Falcon's job was to protect strike package and that they did brilliantly. If iaf Pilots were so much confident in their tactics as you claim they'd have retaliated next day instead of threatening us with cruise missiles, which btw also didn't work because we told modi if he dared to fire missiles at us our response will be multiplied by factor of 3 and we'll tear him a new one.
The failure to retaliate and subsequent shopping spree gives Credence to our claim that iaf was totally out gunned by Paf.

the mig21 lost gcc and crossed loc and was shot down but did lock on take out your f16 .
Another false claim - no proof whatsoever.
His missiles were recovered with the wreckage and his fuels tanks were also infact which means he never entered in any fight - with missiles or guns.
.of training as your pilots did not wait for lock on and all f16 shots missed their tactic.
Oh really, then I believe the Klingons from Star Trek must've shot down your bison and flanker with their photon torpedoes and to hide their ships they must've used their notorious cloaking tech.
 

Raj-Hindustani

SENIOR MEMBER
May 4, 2019
2,150
-22
1,154
Country
India
Location
India
Bullocks, your own Sameer Joshi confessed that some Amraams were fired from as close as 30km, the only questions is - if F16s came 30km close to flankers why didn't they fire their own missiles. And I believe the answer was given by retired Indian army Colonel Praveen Sawheny - The sukhois were jammed by Paf EW assets and they had no idea what they're in. This explains why remaining flankers chickened out when their lead was shot down by Sqldr Hassan. Smart choice though, it's better to go home and fight other day than to fight and lose to a superior enemy force.
Nope, it was just about missile range- f16 with 110 KM and Su 30 mki with R77 with 80 KM. F16 took the advantage but again more chance to survive if you fire from maximum range. The same reason it was easy for IAF pilots to defeat the incoming missiles. if it was fired from 30 KM then it would be very tough to defeat.

The PAF used F-16s to launch AMRAAM but prompt and correct tactical action by Su-30 aircraft defeated the missile.

NOw, Su 30 mki also carrying BVR missiles with range 110 KM, now the next conflict will be interesting. India needs to scrapped 70 years old mig 21 at early as possible.
 
Last edited:

Reichsmarschall

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 16, 2016
9,988
2
19,477
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Nope, it was just about missile range- f16 with 110 KM and Su 30 mki with R77 with 80 KM.

The PAF used F-16s to launch AMRAAM but prompt and correct tactical action by Su-30 aircraft defeated the missile.

NOw, Su 30 mki also carrying BVR missiles with range 110 KM, now the next conflict will be interesting. India needs to scrapped 70 years old mig 21 at early as possible.
Bla bla bla, I joined this forum almost 5 years ago and since then I've been told thousands of time that iaf flankers are mini awacs and raptors of east. I still remember countless posts from Indians about how flankers with their superior radars will jam Paf assets and shot down Paf fighters before they even leav their bases. But the truth is when the most important time came your flankers failed to perform their jobs, first they couldn't intercept paf strike package and then they also Lost one aircraft to falcons. Accept it and move on, win or lose is part of the game, no aircraft is invincible. You can't change past.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom