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Air Wolf

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As long as our establishment is under american influence, it's all in vain.

One can't understand that after repeated humiliations and deceits by the americans starting from 1971 to afghan war, to pressler ammendments, WoT, Salala, OBL raid, do more bullshit etc. etc. why Pakistan's establishment is still enamored with US. Is the lesson not enough or the level of outright dumbness exceed all thresholds...

It's palpable that China is not as warm since last 6 months or so and that's totally understandable. On one hand you keep saying Pakistan's future lies with China and then take dictation from the newly elected US president to give Modi a facelift so that he is in a better position to counter your iron brother. What a shame...your resolve mustn't shake by mere phone calls. 9/11 all over again.

Pakistan, Turkey, Russia, China can form a block so powerful which can give sleepless nights to alot of powers and wannabe powers. Only if our establishment stop being a b*t*h of americans.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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It's a 'blank cheque' because its cost is sanctions from the US. So, there's the risk of losing spares and support for our F-16s and C-130s, but going to Russia may also jeopardize our trade relations with Washington. The US is one of the few markets where we maintain a trade surplus.

I don't care either way, but it's important to read the context. I don't think our side is going to do much to boost ties with the Russians. We're tied into the US via too many strings.
 

Air Wolf

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As long as our establishment is under american influence, it's all in vain.

One can't understand that after repeated humiliations and deceits by the americans starting from 1971 to afghan war, to pressler ammendments, WoT, Salala, OBL raid, do more bullshit etc. etc. why Pakistan's establishment is still enamored with US. Is the lesson not enough or the level of outright dumbness exceed all thresholds...

It's palpable that China is not as warm since last 6 months or so and that's totally understandable. On one hand you keep saying Pakistan's future lies with China and then take dictation from the newly elected US president to give Modi a facelift so that he is in a better position to counter your iron brother. What a shame...your resolve mustn't shake by mere phone calls. 9/11 all over again.

Pakistan, Turkey, Russia, China can form a block so powerful which can give sleepless nights to alot of powers and wannabe powers. Only if our establishment stop being a b*t*h of americans.

For starters, old tired man must go...let fresh younger blood in to rejuvenate the institution.
It's a 'blank cheque' because its cost is sanctions from the US. So, there's the risk of losing spares and support for our F-16s and C-130s, but going to Russia may also jeopardize our trade relations with Washington. The US is one of the few markets where we maintain a trade surplus.

I don't care either way, but it's important to read the context. I don't think our side is going to do much to boost ties with the Russians. We're tied into the US via too many strings.
During last 4-5 years Pak-US relations hit rock bottom but yet here we are, still surviving. Whats the trade volume between Pakistan and US? If we focus on Russia and Central Asian states, we can have much more.

Your last statement is 100% correct. Much of those strings are psychological and not physical anymore.
 

koolio

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The time has come for Pakistan to move forward and protect its own interests, how many times is Pakistan going to appease Washington to damage its own interests, Its clear USA does not want to see a stable Pakistan.
 

Irfan Baloch

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Putin offers ‘blank cheque’ to Pakistan
If you [Pakistan] are interested in corridors, defence or any cooperation, Russia stands ready, says Russian president
Kamran Yousaf| April 11, 2021

View attachment 733205
Vladimir Putin and Imran Khan pose for a photo. PHOTO: AFP/FILE

ISLAMABAD:

When Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov visited Islamabad last week after a gap of nine years, he had delivered an "important" message to the Pakistani leadership. The message was from President Vladimir Putin.
"I came with a message from my president that tell Pakistan we are open for any cooperation, whatever Pakistan needs Russia is ready for it," Lavrov was quoted by a senior Pakistani official, who attended the closed door meeting between the Russian foreign minister and Pakistani authorities, as saying.
"In other words, the Russian president offered us a blank cheque," said the official, who requested not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue.
The official revealed that Putin had conveyed to Pakistan through his top diplomat that Moscow would help Islamabad in any manner. "If you're interested in gas pipelines, corridors, defence or any other cooperation, Russia stands ready for it," the official quoted FM Lavrov as saying when asked what he meant by "blank cheque".

Pakistan and Russia are already working on the North-South gas pipeline project. The two sides had entered into the agreement in 2015 to lay a pipeline from Karachi to Lahore. The project is estimated to cost $2 billion.
The work on the pipeline could not kick off because of possible American sanctions. The two sides, however, recently agreed to approve a new structure that would pave the way for the start of the work.
Russia is also keen to revive the Pakistan Steel Mills, which it originally built. Similarly, Moscow has interest in hydroelectric projects. Overall, Russia is thought to be willing to make $8 billion investment in different areas.
"It is now up to us to follow up this successful visit," the official said.
russian fm is being received by his pakistani counterpart upon arriving at the foreign office photo twitter smqureshipti

When asked the possibility of Pakistan acquiring Russian air defence systems, the official said he could not talk about the specifics but Russia had shown willingness to expand the cooperation with Pakistan.
At the joint news conference with his Pakistani counterpart, the Russian foreign minister had said Moscow was ready to supply Pakistan with "special military equipment" to enhance its anti-terrorists potential. He, however, did not provide further details.
Relations between Pakistan and Russia have undergone transformation in recent years thanks to the new alignments and strategic realities.
The rapprochement between the former Cold War rivals began in 2011 when Pakistan's relationship with the US hit the rock bottom. At that time, a decision was taken to bring a strategic shift in Pakistan’s foreign policy. The shift envisaged reaching out to Russia as part of Pakistan’s efforts to diversify its foreign policy options.
The two countries initially worked quietly to find common ground. The years-long efforts had resulted in the Russian decision to send its troops to Pakistan for the first time in history for joint exercises in 2016. Moscow even overruled the Indian objections over holding joint drills with Pakistan.
Since then, the two countries have been regularly holding these exercises and they are looking to further deepen that cooperation.
Pakistan is hoping that Russian President Vladimir Putin would visit the country, something that would complete the Pak-Russia ties from being Cold War foes to friends.
In contrast, Russian ties with once its solid ally India are heading in the opposite direction. The two still have good relationship but the usual warmth they expressed earlier have been missing.
It was rare that the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi did not give audience to a visiting Russian foreign minister. Russia is concerned that Indian tilt towards the US would pose threat to its interests.
It was because of these reasons, Lavrov, both in New Delhi and Islamabad, indirectly objected to the grouping of US, India, Japan and Australia.
These developments are bringing countries such as Russia, China and Pakistan together.
---
@Horus @waz @The Eagle @HRK @SQ8 @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Jungibaaz @ghazi52 @Verve @koolio @Areesh @Zibago @Path-Finder
sure a totally blank cheque.
until what time will we Pakistanis continue to beg from Kafirs and Arabs?

best aid from Russia is that it convinces India to stop using Afghani soil to foment trouble against Pakistan.
other than that there is not much hope. because Pakistani diplomatic corps is lacking and the current government is preoccupied dealing with opposition mischief.
whatever is going to be achieve on the international level will be though the one sided help from the counter party like china or Russia or Saudi Arabia.
the current government is surviving by the day due to issues of pandemic, crippling economy, political instability and lawlessness.
Imran Khan is going to be the last prime minister of Pakistan at the rate and direction we are going, May Allah Give him strength to turn the things around for better.
 

Ace of Spades

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Kommersant: Lavrov makes progress in Pakistan

Russia’s top diplomat Sergey Lavrov has wrapped up his visit to Pakistan, which became the second stop on his Asian tour after India. The talks in Islamabad reached a breakthrough. Pakistan, which was out of Moscow’s spotlight due to the conflict with India and Islamabad’s close ties to the US, managed to break the deadlock in relations with Russia, including their most sensitive military and technical part. However, the Russian-Pakistani honeymoon might entail costs for each side. The pro-US lobby in New Delhi has gained ammunition in favor of shifting towards the US, while as far as Pakistan is concerned rapprochement with Russia will trigger cooler ties with Washington and less US military assistance, Kommersant writes.

Leading Indian mass media outlets pointed out that the Russian foreign minister united India and Pakistan during his Asian trip, which many foreign politicians prefer not to do. Meanwhile, Washington’s relations with its strategic Pakistani ally keep deteriorating for two reasons. First, the US thinks that Islamabad is slacking off in the anti-terror fight, and the enormous assistance allocated there is becoming a black hole. Second, Washington views Pakistan as the younger brother of China, the key US geopolitical rival. And now there’ll be a third reason, after Lavrov’s visit - rapprochement with Russia, the newspaper says. According to Indian media reports, Lavrov’s visit to Islamabad, which became a turning point in bilateral relations, took place mainly thanks to Beijing’s efforts.

"Now the struggle for Pakistan is unfolding in the region and three key players - the US, China and Russia - are pursuing their interests. For Beijing, Pakistan is becoming an important point of influence in South Asia and the Middle East. The US views Islamabad as a future operator of Afghanistan and hopes to alienate it from Beijing. For Russia, Pakistan is interesting as a tool of containing the US in the region as well as a point of influence on the Taliban and other Jihadist groups, which potentially pose a threat to security in Central Asia," Director of the Russian Society of Political Scientists, a think tank, Andrey Serenko told Kommersant.

"Pakistan will interest Russia as an essential partner, but Moscow is unlikely to have inclusive cooperation with Islamabad since for Pakistan this would mean unacceptably downgrading its partnership with Washington. Given this, Moscow will have to thoroughly evaluate the advantages and disadvantages of its current strategy, given the prospect of spoiling relations with India," the expert pointed out.

This is from russian state owned news agency TASS

 

SQ8

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True. Pakistan must stop these bidding wars, choose either block and stick with it. You can't ride on two horses at the same time.

Then why Pakistan is taking aid from US backed IMF?
National Debt isn’t necessarily a bad thing if the money is actually used in the right way. If the net result of that debt was massive economic growth then the debt adds a positive impact. Unfortunately in Pakistan 60% of debt borrowing was lost to corruption.
 

Dalit

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It's a 'blank cheque' because its cost is sanctions from the US. So, there's the risk of losing spares and support for our F-16s and C-130s, but going to Russia may also jeopardize our trade relations with Washington. The US is one of the few markets where we maintain a trade surplus.

I don't care either way, but it's important to read the context. I don't think our side is going to do much to boost ties with the Russians. We're tied into the US via too many strings.
That is pure malice. The US cannot dictate to Pakistan who it can and cannot befriend.

I say it is time to diversify. The F-16s are not the end of the world. As for trade surplus. It is minuscule. Let's focus on strengthening relations with regional nations. Whether the US cries or laughs is their problem. Pakistan cannot be held hostage to US dictation.
 

Myth_buster_1

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There is nothing big pakistan will get from russia unless pakistan is ready to spend 10 to 20 billion usd. The game that is being played by russia and pakistan is to keep india in russian arms market and prevent it from going western....
 

Strife

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On the economic front yes. We should improve ties with russia but on the military front we may not gain high end technology due to indian lobbying and we also might shut western doors for a long time. At this moment we cannot afford this. Not with most of the overseas pakistanis in arab and western countries.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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That is pure malice. The US cannot dictate to Pakistan who it can and cannot befriend.

I say it is time to diversify. The F-16s are not the end of the world. As for trade surplus. It is minuscule. Let's focus on strengthening relations with regional nations. Whether the US cries or laughs is their problem. Pakistan cannot be held hostage to US dictation.
The US won't need to dictate anything, and our business community is risk-averse. The ones who benefit from the US trade surplus are going to panic, which will cause our gov't to panic. We'll ensure this is DOA before it even gets to the US.

I'm all game for shaking things up, but doing so takes leadership that has an outcome in mind, a plan to get there, and buy-in from local powerbrokers (like the business community, military, etc).
 

VCheng

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It's a 'blank cheque' because its cost is sanctions from the US. So, there's the risk of losing spares and support for our F-16s and C-130s, but going to Russia may also jeopardize our trade relations with Washington. The US is one of the few markets where we maintain a trade surplus.

I don't care either way, but it's important to read the context. I don't think our side is going to do much to boost ties with the Russians. We're tied into the US via too many strings.
It is up to Pakistan to weight all the pros and cons of whatever it decides as a sovereign nation in this matter, although my personal opinion is that this is merely another khwab of a billey missing out on its favorite chichiras. This strategy of trying to create the impression of major power being engaged in a bidding war for Pakistan's good graces is a favored flight of fantasy that will not leave the taxiway.
 

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