• Sunday, August 18, 2019

Punjabi and Urdu - Are they two different languages?

Discussion in 'Members Club' started by FaujHistorian, May 5, 2013.

  1. FaujHistorian

    FaujHistorian ELITE MEMBER

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    there are many references in politically charged debates that Punjabi is not taught in schools in Punjab instead urdu is the main focus.

    In my humble opinion, Urdu is just a dialect of Punjabi.

    You ever wonder how and why Lahore has been one of the major centers of Urdu prose and poetry?

    Punjabi Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims all contributed towards development of urdu.


    So anyone who says Panjabis in Pakistan left their language, doesn't know what they are talking about.


    Why was urdu so closely linked to Punjab?


    Duh!

    urdu in Turkish means "military".

    And everyone knows that Punjabi Muslims and Sikh Jats and Hindu Jats have provided bulk of soldiers to pretty much every regional army for centuries now.

    Thus the language spoken in military dominated villages and towns was always a dialect of Punjabi.

    A lot of time when my community claims to be "urdu speaking", they are just speaking Punjabi with Lakhnavi dialect.


    FYI Punjabi like other ancient languages is blessed with many many regional dialects of Punjabi including: Hindku, Pothohari, Ambarsari (Amritsari), Jalundhri, Multani, and Lahore.


    Hope this reduces some "friction" and "despair" in Pakistan.


    Thank you.
     
  2. livingdead

    livingdead ELITE MEMBER

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    If urdu is a dialect of punjabi, how is it that I can understand quite a bit of urdu, but not much punjabi.
     
  3. Ayush

    Ayush SENIOR MEMBER

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    ^^ wondering the same..personally,i disagree...
     
  4. Armstrong

    Armstrong PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    I don't agree; I think by that token Urdu could be a little less similar dialect of Persian as well !

    No...its a separate language altogether though because all languages are born out of each other, there are a couple of languages that it has strong commonalities with & one of them is Punjabi !
     
  5. FaujHistorian

    FaujHistorian ELITE MEMBER

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    Punjabis are 80-100 million in Pakistan alone. That large population will save the language (or destroy it) and not any government shovernment. No Siree bob.

    Punabi has survived when many Punjabis were using official languages like persian and English.

    So fear not.

    your language will survive for a long long long time to come just like it has survived pretty much for the past 8+ centuries if not more.


    Peace

    Originally Posted by FaujHistorian
    Off course. So does Hindku and Siraiki and Pothohari. Each one of them could be characterized as separate languages for the purpose of dividing people of Punjab.

    Punjabis are 80-100 million in Pakistan alone. That large population will save the language (or destroy it) and not any government shovernment. No Siree bob.

    Punabi has survived when many Punjabis were using official languages like persian and English.

    So fear not.

    your language will survive for a long long long time to come just like it has survived pretty much for the past 8+ centuries if not more.


    Peace
    Oh the language will survive but I wonder whether it'll evolve & produce some of the brilliant works that were produced in it in ages past !

    And for that making it at least an elective subject should be a good thing !
     
  6. Armstrong

    Armstrong PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Waisee on a separate note I know a Pashtun Lady who did her PhD in Punjabi from the Punjab University & I was like - Wow ! :blink:
     
  7. RangerPK

    RangerPK SENIOR MEMBER

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    Punjabi is quite similar to Urdu, I think its mostly because most languages of the subcontinent belong to the same family of languages, so the grammar is pretty much the same, but the a vocabulary is a bit different.
    Though, I can understand someone speaking Punjabi in Lahore, but if I go outside Lahore, there is a different dialect of Punjabi which I can not understand, so whether you learn Punjabi or not, the province still remains fragmented due to dialects...

    I do not want my children ( If I have any) to be distracted by different languages and be burdened by them, I think Urdu and English are quite sufficient.

    We can have punjabi as an OPTION and not a compulsion...

    The world is moving forward, languages change and evolve, Languages are just a tool you use to achieve your goals. Languages are made for us, we are not made for languages...
     
  8. Armstrong

    Armstrong PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    @Zarvan can't speak Punjabi ! :whistle:
     
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  9. FaujHistorian

    FaujHistorian ELITE MEMBER

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    You have hard time understanding spoken Punjabi or written Punabi?

    Spoken Punjabi (or any language) depends on speaker's specific region and education level.

    Punjabi spoken in long time immigrant families in UK and Canada is sort of stuck in the 50s or even before.

    However if you went to Lahore today, you may hear different kind of spoken Panjabi that is softer and more refined.


    so it really depends on many factors.


    peace
     
  10. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

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    I can Mr who told you I can't
     
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  11. livingdead

    livingdead ELITE MEMBER

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    More refined? as in mixed with urdu, as punjabis there are ashamed that they speak a dehati language?
     
  12. Armstrong

    Armstrong PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Sir Sorry ! :cray:

    Asal mein Molvi ko tunggg karnaa nisf-iman haii ! :whistle:
     
  13. FaujHistorian

    FaujHistorian ELITE MEMBER

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    I used to say and think the same thing. This is how I heard and I was told.

    Then I asked myself a simple question.

    If two languages are almost interchangeable in script and in grammar. Then which language is older and which is newer.

    It turns out that Punjabi is at least 600 years older than Urdu.

    So Urdu must be a dialect or at most a derivative of the Punjabi (in my unemotional, non-prejudiced analysis).




    Language of subcontinent are not similar. Heck within Pakistan, Punjabi vs. Pashtu vs. Sindhi vs. Balochi are a clear proof that subcontinent is blessed with unique and totally different languages.

    However the difference in Punjabi and Urdu is tiny.


    Peace
     
  14. RangerPK

    RangerPK SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think it means we don't sound like an equivalent of a red neck in USA...

    lol... JK
     
  15. Armstrong

    Armstrong PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Oh bhai there is nothing to be ashamed of ! Our languages are intermingled with each other; you'd find the Punjabi of further south having a lot of Saraiki loan words to it whereas you'd find from up North with a lot of Hindko, Gojri etc. loan words to it. Similarly the Punjabi of Lahore has a lot of words from Urdu incorporated into it which has reduced its sharpness or bluntness somewhat & given it a lot softer (refined) touch - a little like how Pashto has two major dialects (one where you call Peshawar as Peshawar whilst the other where you call it as Pekhawar & similarly Pashtun & Pukhtoon !)