What's new

PTI and Establishment should reconcile for country's best interest

Salza

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 20, 2014
9,209
-1
15,050
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
For the last couple of months, I have been noticing flurry of anti-Pakistani army threads especially about Bajwa. Yes being PTI supporter, I felt hurt and is angry but at the same time I ain't liking this growing anti establishment trend.

Without any shadow of doubt there have been glaring differences between PTI and neutrals ( that's what DGISPR call themselves for the first time on April 14). This is hurting not only Imran Khan but in particular Army's image in front of nation like never before. Even the ones who usually do not support IK, are saying that it is Army, which played a vital role in the ousted of Imran Khan when they could had saved him from these PDM crooks even if characters like Donald Lu in US threatened us.

What went wrong in between PTI and establishment is another discussion but this is hurting Pakistani economy badly and in the up most interest of Pakistani, it is imperative that IK and mil. establishment differences are sorted out asap. The only party who is enjoying this fall out, is PDM and the enemies of Pakistan. I know army establishment is trying to contact IK thru back channels but for now, IK is not listening them. Yesterday Ijaz ul Haq meeting was specific to this where, as per social media reports, army wants to reconcile with IK and in reply, they want IK to lower down his tone regarding American cipher and ask his social media followers to lower down their criticism against Bajwa, establishment as well.

I think IK should accept this offer and move forward if est. is ready to mend their ways and force PDM for an early elections. We ordinary Pakistanis, need IK to lead, and at the same time we need Army as well and similarly Army needs IK as well to avoid any trust deficient from their own people. Everyone make mistakes, be it ordinary people like you or me, Imran Khan himself or our generals but we move on as well by learning from our mistakes if we are ready to give up our ego issues.
 
Last edited:

Musna

MEMBER

New Recruit

Apr 2, 2022
18
0
17
Country
India
Location
India
PDM is enjoying

I differ on this point only. They are being systemically wiped out .

Just analyse their position vis a vis the general population some months back and now.
 

Olympus81

FULL MEMBER
Apr 18, 2022
964
2
1,432
Country
Thailand
Location
Thailand
With due respect this is not about Imran Khan anymore.

The bigger recourse is army’s role in Pakistan.

Bajwa can do a course correction by completely disconnecting army’s role from politics. Ask all the establishment players to resign followed by his own resignation.

Other structural changes include
- Reducing the tenure of CAOS with no extension under any circumstances
- Army coming under Defense Ministry
- Army volunteer to cut the defense budget
- A few others which I can delve into later

If Bajwa and co can agree to do this, that will be a good time to negotiate.
 

Salza

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 20, 2014
9,209
-1
15,050
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I differ on this point only. They are being systemically wiped out .

Just analyse their position vis a vis the general population some months back and now.
What position ? kindly elaborate ? Merit doesn't hold here in Pakistan most of the times. Even with a dismal performance, If Army wants, than in the next general elections, PDM again can come into power with similar arrangement as of today, where PTI may be the largest party with the most NA seats yet falls short of 2-3rd majority or to make a coalition govt.
 

Jango

SENIOR MODERATOR
Sep 12, 2010
18,104
41
23,716
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I actually cannot disagree with the OP.

1- This anti-American rhetoric by IK is not going to get us anywhere. I am totally onboard with him regarding the khud mukhtari and self-respect angle, but you do that in succint ways in diplomacy, not by looking them right in the eye. Do soft diplomacy, change their views about you, work with them on issues. This is where I actually agree with the establishment.

2- The establishment needs to cede space too, especially in matters where civilian leadership is the one that should be taking charge. Har cheez main tang dalnay ki zaroorat nhn hoti.

3- Establishment acts like a playboy. He gets one hooker or a girlfriend, spends a month or two with her, gets bored, and then goes out to find a new one. And the cycle repeats.
 

Salza

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 20, 2014
9,209
-1
15,050
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Bajwa can do a course correction
He is not doing any course correction in fact busy is pre-poll rigging in favor of PML-N until PTI reconciles with establishment as per his terms. Though the severe backlash on social media and IK stiff stance is pressuring him not to do it further since there are voices with in the Army which supports IK over PDM crooks.
 

Salza

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 20, 2014
9,209
-1
15,050
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
1- This anti-American rhetoric by IK is not going to get us anywhere. I am totally onboard with him regarding the khud mukhtari and self-respect angle, but you do that in succint ways in diplomacy, not by looking them right in the eye. Do soft diplomacy, change their views about you, work with them on issues. This is where I actually agree with the establishment.

Yes, we cannot ignore US and have to engage them with time to time so IK should lower down his anti-US tone. This inflation imposed by this imported Govt is more than enough to a build a narrative for the next elections.
 

Sinnerman108

ELITE MEMBER
Jul 20, 2009
8,205
-7
9,052
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
For the last couple of months, I have been noticing flurry of anti-Pakistani army threads especially about Bajwa. Yes being PTI supporter, I felt hurt and is angry but at the same time I ain't liking this growing anti establishment trend.

Without any shadow of doubt there have been glaring differences between PTI and establishment ( that's what DGISPR call themselves neutrals for the first time on April 14). This is hurting not only Imran Khan but in particular Army's image in front of nation like never before. Even the ones who usually do not support IK, are saying that it is Army, which played a vital role in the ousted of Imran Khan when they could had save him from these PDM crooks even if characters like Donald Lu in US threatened us.

What went wrong in between PTI and establishment is another discussion but this is hurting Pakistani economy badly and in the up most interest of Pakistani, it is imperative that IK and mil. establishment differences are sorted out asap. The only party who is enjoying this fall out, is PDM and the enemies of Pakistan. I know army establishment is trying to contact IK thru back channels but for now, IK is not listening them. Yesterday Ijaz ul Haq meeting was specific to this where, as per social media reports, army wants to reconcile with IK and in reply, they want IK to lower down his tone regarding American cipher and ask his social media followers to lower down their criticism against Bajwa, establishment as well.

I think IK should accept this offer and move forward if est. is ready to mend their ways and force PDM for an early elections. We ordinary Pakistanis, need IK to lead, and at the same time we need Army as well and similarly Army needs IK as well to avoid any trust deficient from their own people. Everyone make mistakes, be it ordinary people like you or me, Imran Khan himself or our generals but we move on as well by learning from our mistakes if we are ready to give up our ego issues.

NO,
it is for the good the country, that the establishment be put to do what they are supposed to do.
Establishment must never be policy maker.
 

ARMalik

BANNED
Dec 7, 2017
5,444
-7
10,048
Country
Pakistan
Location
Australia
For the last couple of months, I have been noticing flurry of anti-Pakistani army threads especially about Bajwa. Yes being PTI supporter, I felt hurt and is angry but at the same time I ain't liking this growing anti establishment trend.

Without any shadow of doubt there have been glaring differences between PTI and establishment ( that's what DGISPR call themselves neutrals for the first time on April 14). This is hurting not only Imran Khan but in particular Army's image in front of nation like never before. Even the ones who usually do not support IK, are saying that it is Army, which played a vital role in the ousted of Imran Khan when they could had save him from these PDM crooks even if characters like Donald Lu in US threatened us.

What went wrong in between PTI and establishment is another discussion but this is hurting Pakistani economy badly and in the up most interest of Pakistani, it is imperative that IK and mil. establishment differences are sorted out asap. The only party who is enjoying this fall out, is PDM and the enemies of Pakistan. I know army establishment is trying to contact IK thru back channels but for now, IK is not listening them. Yesterday Ijaz ul Haq meeting was specific to this where, as per social media reports, army wants to reconcile with IK and in reply, they want IK to lower down his tone regarding American cipher and ask his social media followers to lower down their criticism against Bajwa, establishment as well.

I think IK should accept this offer and move forward if est. is ready to mend their ways and force PDM for an early elections. We ordinary Pakistanis, need IK to lead, and at the same time we need Army as well and similarly Army needs IK as well to avoid any trust deficient from their own people. Everyone make mistakes, be it ordinary people like you or me, Imran Khan himself or our generals but we move on as well by learning from our mistakes if we are ready to give up our ego issues.

Nothing to do with IK, all to do with these Corrupt Douche bags in the Army who have destroyed our country and our people for 75-years. This vicious Mafia needs to be put down or our people will NEVER prosper ! These Begharat Chokidars need to go back to their barracks, and leave the Awam alone !!
 

Jazzbot

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 27, 2010
9,569
14
23,674
Country
Pakistan
Location
Bahrain
No bowing down to establishment this time around, they knew very well what they are getting into and they made their decision to stand at the wrong side. Either they mend their ways and surrender to the people's will or we all should brace for the consequences. We've treated these corrupt generals led establishment like a holy cow for way too long. No anymore.
 
Last edited:

Salza

ELITE MEMBER
Dec 20, 2014
9,209
-1
15,050
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
NO,
it is for the good the country, that the establishment be put to do what they are supposed to do.
Establishment must never be policy maker.
Ideally it shouldn't but in case of Pakistan we have to find a middle way until our democratic system, which also includes judiciary, becomes stronger and very much independent. This is also a good lesson for Army the way they are getting this severe backlash on social media like never before.
 

Olympus81

FULL MEMBER
Apr 18, 2022
964
2
1,432
Country
Thailand
Location
Thailand
He is not doing any course correction in fact busy is pre-poll rigging in favor of PML-N until PTI reconciles with establishment as per his terms. Though the severe backlash on social media and IK stiff stance is pressuring him not to do it further since there are voices with in the Army which supports IK over PDM crooks.
Yes, that is why I said Bajwa ‘can’. In reality he is doing the exact opposite.

That is exactly why Imran Khan should not negotiate with Bajwa or if IK does, the pre-conditions I mentioned need to be agreed first.
 

N.Siddiqui

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 21, 2015
7,908
8
14,583
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
This proposition looks good on the face of it, keeping in mind that the strong relations between the two resulted in FATF legislations and approval when the opposition was boycotting it, many more good 'ol days of collaboration and help.

Still Estab. need to yield power to the civilian govt. which they wield now, and poke less nose in affairs of civilian govt, be neutral in real.

Still a Civ-Mil relations need to be good for one/all to function properly.

Imran Khan has said a strong Civilian govt. complements a strong Fauj, this need to be understood by the power hungry Estab., cede some space and hegemony.
 

Mav3rick

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 4, 2008
6,528
10
4,976
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
For the last couple of months, I have been noticing flurry of anti-Pakistani army threads especially about Bajwa. Yes being PTI supporter, I felt hurt and is angry but at the same time I ain't liking this growing anti establishment trend.

Without any shadow of doubt there have been glaring differences between PTI and establishment ( that's what DGISPR call themselves neutrals for the first time on April 14). This is hurting not only Imran Khan but in particular Army's image in front of nation like never before. Even the ones who usually do not support IK, are saying that it is Army, which played a vital role in the ousted of Imran Khan when they could had save him from these PDM crooks even if characters like Donald Lu in US threatened us.

What went wrong in between PTI and establishment is another discussion but this is hurting Pakistani economy badly and in the up most interest of Pakistani, it is imperative that IK and mil. establishment differences are sorted out asap. The only party who is enjoying this fall out, is PDM and the enemies of Pakistan. I know army establishment is trying to contact IK thru back channels but for now, IK is not listening them. Yesterday Ijaz ul Haq meeting was specific to this where, as per social media reports, army wants to reconcile with IK and in reply, they want IK to lower down his tone regarding American cipher and ask his social media followers to lower down their criticism against Bajwa, establishment as well.

I think IK should accept this offer and move forward if est. is ready to mend their ways and force PDM for an early elections. We ordinary Pakistanis, need IK to lead, and at the same time we need Army as well and similarly Army needs IK as well to avoid any trust deficient from their own people. Everyone make mistakes, be it ordinary people like you or me, Imran Khan himself or our generals but we move on as well by learning from our mistakes if we are ready to give up our ego issues.
That's your take on the whole matter, right?

Mine is that many in PTI tried their best, Imran Khan tried his best and even contacted Malik Riaz to have things patched up with Zardari and Establishment but enough is enough for the powers that be and that Imran Khan is now HISTORY!

But let's ignore the POV's of either side. How about you explain to us how IK, the chief architect of the destruction of our economy, is going to revive it? What has this Government done which IK will NOT do and what is it that Imran Khan WILL do which this Government hasn't done or isn't trying to do? And please give factual arguments and not hypotheticals such as 30% or 50% or 80% or free oil from Russia etc.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom