What's new

Project "AZM" : STEALTH AMBITION Project

Thunder.Storm

FULL MEMBER
Apr 8, 2015
575
0
599
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
A thread written by @WPCION
THREAD on Project Azm and JF-17 Block 3.
Today I visited Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra and received multiple briefings from the engineers and command working there.

Project Azm is Pakistan Air Force’s Project to make a viable and cost-effective but totally indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft, a Medium-altitude long endurance (MALE) UAV and an advanced SAM missile system.

The Project Azm NGFA has already been assigned a huge building in AvRiD, Kamra and work on it is in the early design phases.
PAF is exploring VTOL capabilities on the NGFA as well.

As from the models I’ve seen currently 3 designs are being studied, one of which is a flying wing design, which is unlikely to be selected according to the engineers. The other two look very much like the YF-23 Black Widow. One is being studied with dorsal air intakes.

The design philosophy is of a twin engine delta wing design double vertical and horizontal stabiliser that most resembles a YF-23, pictured below. These pictures are the most accurate representation of what I saw of the models.


Most likely a delta wing YF-23 design will be chosen.
The Project Azm MALE UAV prototypes have been built and flown and will enter production next year, InshAllah
The SAM system’s progress is classified but well underway.

Project Azm NGFA is projected to enter prototype build phase in 2023 and become fully combat operational not later than 2028. Probably will enter production in 2026.

As for JF-17 Block 3, most salient features will be:
AESA Radar, more hardpoints, BVR missile support (most important), and superior avionics. Prototypes of block 3 are being tested. They will be flight tested late this year or early 2020. And production will start in 2020.

Block 4,5 will also be developed and made in the 2023-2030 timeframe in which major airframe and engine changes will be made. Stealth will also be added with technology transferred from Project Azm.

I also witnessed the first two dual seater JF-17 B in final assembly. They were the first two serial production JF-17Bs. They will be used both for training and for battle/combat uses from the onset.
 

Figaro

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 17, 2017
5,488
8
10,046
Country
United States
Location
United States
Seems to like 6th generation air frame and concept
Could be a heavily upgraded J-20? I would think the 6th generation fighter would bear much less resemblance to the fifth generation fighter. Maybe this is an evolution of the J-20 planned for near 2030 prior to the arrival of the sixth generation fighter.
 

Deino

INT'L MOD
Nov 9, 2014
9,312
14
14,527
Country
Germany
Location
Germany

IMO forget it ... this statement alone ruins everything:

1604399726184.png


Even if the final design of AZM was already finalised- what i don't believe - and a prototype could be build in 2023, it will never enter production phase already in 2026 or even fully combat operational in 2018. That's plain impossible and even more ridiculous than these Turkish claims for their TFX. :hitwall: :crazy:

@Quwa ??
 

LKJ86

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 1, 2018
18,595
28
49,979
Country
China
Location
China
Even if the final design of AZM was already finalised- what i don't believe - and a prototype could be build in 2023, it will never enter production phase already in 2026 or even fully combat operational in 2018. That's plain impossible and even more ridiculous than these Turkish claims for their TFX. :hitwall: :crazy:
If AZM bases on SAC/PLAN's J-35(?) project, that may be possible...
 

Marker

FULL MEMBER
Dec 31, 2019
682
5
864
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
IMO forget it ... this statement alone ruins everything:

View attachment 685169

Even if the final design of AZM was already finalised- what i don't believe - and a prototype could be build in 2023, it will never enter production phase already in 2026 or even fully combat operational in 2018. That's plain impossible and even more ridiculous than these Turkish claims for their TFX. :hitwall: :crazy:

@Quwa ??
A thread written by @WPCION
THREAD on Project Azm and JF-17 Block 3.
Today I visited Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra and received multiple briefings from the engineers and command working there.

Project Azm is Pakistan Air Force’s Project to make a viable and cost-effective but totally indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft, a Medium-altitude long endurance (MALE) UAV and an advanced SAM missile system.

The Project Azm NGFA has already been assigned a huge building in AvRiD, Kamra and work on it is in the early design phases.
PAF is exploring VTOL capabilities on the NGFA as well.

As from the models I’ve seen currently 3 designs are being studied, one of which is a flying wing design, which is unlikely to be selected according to the engineers. The other two look very much like the YF-23 Black Widow. One is being studied with dorsal air intakes.

The design philosophy is of a twin engine delta wing design double vertical and horizontal stabiliser that most resembles a YF-23, pictured below. These pictures are the most accurate representation of what I saw of the models.


Most likely a delta wing YF-23 design will be chosen.
The Project Azm MALE UAV prototypes have been built and flown and will enter production next year, InshAllah
The SAM system’s progress is classified but well underway.

Project Azm NGFA is projected to enter prototype build phase in 2023 and become fully combat operational not later than 2028. Probably will enter production in 2026.
These is not official timeline given. Rough estimate is that the first proto type may fly its maiden flight in early 2030s
 

HRK

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Sep 24, 2010
11,566
89
28,819
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
IMO forget it ... this statement alone ruins everything:

View attachment 685169

Even if the final design of AZM was already finalised- what i don't believe - and a prototype could be build in 2023, it will never enter production phase already in 2026 or even fully combat operational in 2018. That's plain impossible and even more ridiculous than these Turkish claims for their TFX. :hitwall: :crazy:

@Quwa ??
What you here forgetting is that only the announcement of Azm project came in 2017 but preliminary study for NGF were initiated year or two before 2017

PROJECT AZM.jpg


This can be understand for the very basic fact that Project Azm was officially announced in April 2017 but the first conceptual design was reported [not necessarily mean completed during the same period] as completed during the period of July-2017 till June-2018.

Therefore it is logical to assume ASR development preliminary study and requirements were completed before the announcement.

Now even if we count from 2017 then the period is stretched approximately for 7 years (6 years and 9 months) only for Initiating the phase to develop the first prototype not the completion of first prototype, then 3 more years were mention for testing and evaluation of prototypes even as per this idealistic schedule it is stretch over 10 years though one can always expect a delay of 2-3 years in this timeline, so nothing unusual here.
 

Tameem

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 27, 2008
4,229
-16
3,828
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
A thread written by @WPCION
THREAD on Project Azm and JF-17 Block 3.
Today I visited Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra and received multiple briefings from the engineers and command working there.

Project Azm is Pakistan Air Force’s Project to make a viable and cost-effective but totally indigenous fifth generation fighter aircraft, a Medium-altitude long endurance (MALE) UAV and an advanced SAM missile system.

The Project Azm NGFA has already been assigned a huge building in AvRiD, Kamra and work on it is in the early design phases.
PAF is exploring VTOL capabilities on the NGFA as well.

As from the models I’ve seen currently 3 designs are being studied, one of which is a flying wing design, which is unlikely to be selected according to the engineers. The other two look very much like the YF-23 Black Widow. One is being studied with dorsal air intakes.

The design philosophy is of a twin engine delta wing design double vertical and horizontal stabiliser that most resembles a YF-23, pictured below. These pictures are the most accurate representation of what I saw of the models.


Most likely a delta wing YF-23 design will be chosen.
The Project Azm MALE UAV prototypes have been built and flown and will enter production next year, InshAllah
The SAM system’s progress is classified but well underway.

Project Azm NGFA is projected to enter prototype build phase in 2023 and become fully combat operational not later than 2028. Probably will enter production in 2026.

As for JF-17 Block 3, most salient features will be:
AESA Radar, more hardpoints, BVR missile support (most important), and superior avionics. Prototypes of block 3 are being tested. They will be flight tested late this year or early 2020. And production will start in 2020.

Block 4,5 will also be developed and made in the 2023-2030 timeframe in which major airframe and engine changes will be made. Stealth will also be added with technology transferred from Project Azm.

I also witnessed the first two dual seater JF-17 B in final assembly. They were the first two serial production JF-17Bs. They will be used both for training and for battle/combat uses from the onset.
Things about JF17 B3 in above thread mostly turns out false. So will be the case with Project Azm rumors in this thread. YF-23 is a deflector, everyone's buying it easily and that put a big Question marks on it authenticity. Its not that simple, that someone go to PAC and knows all about our strategic projects written on the notice board explicitly, Com'on get some common sense.
 

Akh1112

FULL MEMBER
Nov 21, 2019
718
3
775
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
IMO forget it ... this statement alone ruins everything:

View attachment 685169

Even if the final design of AZM was already finalised- what i don't believe - and a prototype could be build in 2023, it will never enter production phase already in 2026 or even fully combat operational in 2018. That's plain impossible and even more ridiculous than these Turkish claims for their TFX. :hitwall: :crazy:

@Quwa ??
most fgfa's have absurd timelines. The YF-23 part was more what i was getting at which has been seen
Things about JF17 B3 in above thread mostly turns out false. So will be the case with Project Azm rumors in this thread. YF-23 is a deflector, everyone's buying it easily and that put a big Question marks on it authenticity. Its not that simple, that someone go to PAC and knows all about our strategic projects written on the notice board explicitly, Com'on get some common sense.
As for JF-17 Block 3, most salient features will be:
AESA Radar, more hardpoints, BVR missile support (most important), and superior avionics. Prototypes of block 3 are being tested. They will be flight tested late this year or early 2020. And production will start in 2020.

which part of this is false? lol. Maybe the ONLY most questionable part is the hardpoints. The timelines are spot on.
 

Scorpiooo

FULL MEMBER
Apr 22, 2020
291
0
450
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Could be a heavily upgraded J-20? I would think the 6th generation fighter would bear much less resemblance to the fifth generation fighter. Maybe this is an evolution of the J-20 planned for near 2030 prior to the arrival of the sixth generation fighter.
Could be possible, as it is predicted the most project or early variants belong to different country 6th gen program may fall in 5.5 + generation if all 6th generation requirements not met
 

PakShaheen79

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 5, 2007
2,447
1
1,862
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I agree that getting real info regarding AZM or BlockIII is not that easy any longer. If you notice, there is simple a complete media lockout regarding these projects since Op SR in Feb 2019
 

GreyHat

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Feb 25, 2019
31
7
65
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
The Project Azm NGFA has already been assigned a huge building in AvRiD, Kamra and work on it is in the early design phases.
PAF is exploring VTOL capabilities on the NGFA as well.
I will be very interested to know why the VTOL is being pursued.
Given We're not in an A/C Carrier Mood & I don't think Fighter Jet Landings could be an Issue since PAF continuously repeats the Motorway drill Exercises.
Only two reasons are coming into my mind atm.

1) It is strictly for the take off purposes. Assuming a situation where the enemy has damaged the tracks and it is unable to fly-off in such conditions. This might be a very handy feature to carry.
2) Second is me just thinking of a tactic. But it could be possible that the VTOL ability can be used to hide the Figher Jets kind of in a like "Underground Facility" with a small radar on top of the "Underground Facility " in a disguise. If the enemy fighter jet passes through that area and the radar detects it, They could automatically open the facility, use the VTOL for the take off & "Already" You're eyeing the tail of the opponent, giving a very big advantage in dog-fighting perspective. This could work very well close to border, where like Indian breaching after the "Pulwama Fiasco" into the "Balakot Event" where they entered only for a few seconds, but in this case, it could give huge advantage especially if PAF caught them while in a turning back state.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom