What's new

Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

Mar 8, 2021
1,296
0
1,574
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.
View attachment 842942
View attachment 842940
View attachment 842939




Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.
So PAC and co are now only repair workshops and NASTP type organizations can't be supported economically.
Now we can only hope and pray for something from NESCOM only.Others are lost cause and are repair factories only.
 

JamD

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
2,086
94
7,655
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
If only I could talk without Kali overpriced Hiluxs becoming a problem for my extended family.
IMG-20220509-WA0002.jpg
 

JamD

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
2,086
94
7,655
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
So PAC and co are now only repair workshops and NASTP type organizations can't be supported economically.
Now we can only hope and pray for something from NESCOM only.Others are lost cause and are repair factories only.
PAC is an aerospace factory and that's a great thing. We certainly need those.

Having aerospace R&D is also a great thing. I think project Azm was a misstep and NASTP is becoming its correction.

I will not bring NESCOM or other SPD organizations into this discussion because their purpose is primarily developing systems of last resort that no one will sell us. So let's ignore them and their issues for this thread.


Azm was a good thing in my opinion because some people in charge realized that an aerospace industry was a good thing to have. The way they went about it was ad-hoc, overambitious, and full of hubris. After a good dose of reality I think NASTP will be a more metered approach where they will actually focus on the industry part and not the fancy projects part. Another good thing is that they are trying to pool resources and people into one place, and silos of human resources has been a problem in Pakistan.


With all of that being said, NASTP will not go anywhere if there is no money to get it going. NASTP will probably need a LOT of funding for 5-10 years before it's components start to turn a profit.

So what makes me really afraid is the failure of our elite to do meaningful economic reform and their continued insistence on regressive economic policies that penalize the poor for their mismanagement while making them richer. And this is true across the board. NO political party is different.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

ELITE MEMBER
Nov 14, 2015
14,429
17
38,394
Country
United States
Location
United States
hopefully this time TAI and concerned departments won’t repeat ATAK mistake again
thank you
One Musibet is better than a thousand Nesihat....

Turkey has learnt her lessons. So, the manned flight tests for TEI's turbo-shaft engines in 6-ton Gokbey utility choppers will start in 2023. They are currently working on a scaled-up engine for 10-ton choppers...

 

Dalit

ELITE MEMBER
Mar 16, 2012
16,699
-18
31,441
Country
Pakistan
Location
Netherlands
Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.
View attachment 842942
View attachment 842940
View attachment 842939




Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.

Fits the current pattern of political disarray quite nicely. One fiasco after another.

One Musibet is better than a thousand Nesihat....

Turkey has learnt her lessons. So, the manned flight tests for TEI's turbo-shaft engines in 6-ton Gokbey utility choppers will start in 2023. They are currently working on a scaled-up engine for 10-ton choppers...


Turkiye and Pakistan are light years apart from each other. No comparison whatsoever. Turkiye has a bustling defence industry. It exports tons of hardware to many clients all over the world. Pakistan is in denial and decline. Pakistan was never fit to even utter the words Azm. We knew all along that Pakistan would buy a 5th gen fighter from a third party. The best bet with Azm would have been the integration of certain subsystems, but that is too much of an ask. Obviously, the PAF is set to aqcuire a 5th gen platform from another source.
 
Last edited:

M.AsfandYar

FULL MEMBER
Dec 28, 2013
1,675
0
1,626
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.
View attachment 842942
View attachment 842940
View attachment 842939




Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.
Yea from 1 year contract to 5 year was a big off, a lot of guys are turning away, from Kamra, AWC is better in that regard. NaqCoDE is actively hiring these days, (Structural design and Optimization). In general ppl are running away from Governmental orgs as fast as they can or not very enthusiastic to begin with.
NaqCoDe.jpg
 
Last edited:

JamD

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
2,086
94
7,655
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Yea from 1 year contract to 5 year was a big off, a lot of guys are turning away, from Kamra, AWC is better in that regard. NaqCoDE is actively hiring these days, (Structural design and Optimization). In general ppl are running away from Governmental orgs as fast as they can or not very enthusiastic to begin with. View attachment 851540
Yeah, I literally no know one that willingly wants to stay in gov orgs.

The privatization of our aerospace industry is a great thing in my opinion. However, like I said in my earlier post, Pakistan's economy needs to pick up if any of these private companies are to survive.
 

KediKesenFare

MEMBER
Apr 14, 2015
4,209
12
8,076
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
Fits the current pattern of political disarray quite nicely. One fiasco after another.



Turkiye and Pakistan are light years apart from each other. No comparison whatsoever. Turkiye has a bustling defence industry. It exports tons of hardware to many clients all over the world. Pakistan is in denial and decline. Pakistan was never fit to even utter the words Azm. We knew all along that Pakistan would buy a 5th gen fighter from a third party. The best bet with Azm would have been the integration of certain subsystems, but that is too much of an ask. Obviously, the PAF is set to aqcuire a 5th gen platform from another source.
Pakistan needs funds and serious leadership - that's all. Do you know how many Pakistani and South Asian Muslims are working directly and indirectly on this and many more critical Western programs?

Unfortunately, I can't find the source on the internet anymore but I believe the number was as high as several hundreds.
 

JamD

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 26, 2015
2,086
94
7,655
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Do you know how many Pakistani and South Asian Muslims are working directly and indirectly on this and many more critical Western programs?

Unfortunately, I can't find the source on the internet anymore but I believe the number was as high as several hundreds.
A lot of Pakistanis in particular are working on the TF-X as I'm sure you know. I know several personally.

Perhaps you can shed light on why TAI has felt that it needed to rope in Pakistanis in particular when it could have had a pick of everyone. And no, I don't think its because Pakistanis are one of a kind or anything lol. I can only speculate but I suspect Pakistan has asked Turkiye to train a workforce for a future Pakistani industry.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 2, Members: 0, Guests: 2)


Top Bottom