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Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

ziaulislam

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The airframe and the FBW are very closely related. If PAF is looking build its own airframe, it will need it's own home grown FBW, and FBW are one of the most complicated parts of developing a plane. Ask the germans when they tried to do one for the Typhoon !!!

The lack of homegrown experience of quite frankly anything in anything will become apparent to PAF very soon. Hell, they dont even make the full airframe for the JF17 !!!!

It needed to have seeded certain core technologies over a decade ago to pull off Azm, it has not ...

It does seem that alot of the TOT tech will be carried over from the JF17 programme(mission computer, radars, etc ...) but even then there is a lot of missing technology...

PAFs usual "bluster" is going to get a wake up call soon as far as Azm goes, of that I am convinced now.
Unless a third country comes and support it

Will chinese do that, i am not sure unless they ditch their economic thinking and think strategically

Will turkey do that..no as they would want PAF join turkish program

Will we pay off some european country like india ..neither we have the money nor the pending major defense deals to lure them
even that report was by Faseeh Mangi
so you can imagine the degree of actual substance is low.
Turkey will not join Pakistan-China joint program(atleast in near future) because Turkey doesn't have political leverage to do so..It cant risk getting sanctioned as a NATO member when its already getting its S400 deal ratified which it was able to sneak through during Trump era when NATO-US rift was all time high and Trump-Putin love affair was all over the news. They cancelled a missile defense system deal with the Chinese in 2015 due to pressure from US and EU not just that they embarrassed Chinese by releasing this news at G20 summit.. That was a purchase not even a joint program, so what are people here thinking of that Turkey really does independent actions regardless of geo political situation. no it doesn't, just like other countries it also has limitations and real politique prevails. Even Pakistan was able to commence the DRUZBAH joint exercise with Russia and the Mi35 heli purchase during Trumps time, every state makes its move in the time and place of its choosing.
@MastanKhan
But turkey can ask pakistan to join
We are still major non nato alley
So turkey will not get the stick as it got when it bought s400

The problem is opposite i suspect china will be upset if we do so
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Gentlemen, I don't know if you realize, but this thread is absolutely pure gold, and critically important for Azm:


Take a look at my post on the thread as well.

@JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Interestingly, that thread contains the general supplier information if Pakistan wants to setup semiconductor fabrication. Instead of discussing 6 billion dollar deals of EFT/J-10, I wish Pakistani posters would discuss spending the same amount on our own fab.
You're absolutely correct. Great find.
 

JamD

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This is plain wrong. Mismanagement is mismanagement, and it gives no useful results. We have two models in front of us: the Chinese model, and the Indian model. Indians wanted perfection and got nothing. The Chinese got laughed at. Their first attempt at J-10 was rejected by PAF. Today, they are challenging America. There is a reason for this larger than money: good management. If AZM goes the way of LCA, then heads need to roll. As a matter of fact, I say identify those people today who think it is OK to replicate LCA, stand them in a line, and kick them out.
I don't see things as black and white as you described. Yes the Chinese model is ideal, but the Indian model has achieved a lot of things for them. And let's not kid ourselves, we are closer to the Indians in technological prowess than to the Chinese. I am trying to argue that nobody (China or India) is born running, and you will need to fall a couple of times to learn the ropes. The reference to LCA was with regards to falling down. Of course you can do things differently when you get back up. There is no need to be dogmatic and kick people out and stuff. Not everything is an argument to the death lol.
 

Silicon0000

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Long discussions........... and I thought that PAF/PAC main requirement for AZM is "it should be ITAR free". Not 100% indigenous, instead as much indigenous as possible but it should be ITAR free.
 

mdmm

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But there are rumors that Pakistan is talking with some third party for practical assistance in developing next Generation jet fighters, Project Azm 5th Generation ??
Members. How do you guess , will this jet be ready within next 5 years or 10 years ?
 

Silicon0000

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But there are rumors that Pakistan is talking with some third party for practical assistance in developing next Generation jet fighters, Project Azm 5th Generation ??
Members. How do you guess , will this jet be ready within next 5 years or 10 years ?
 

GriffinsRule

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Posted this picture myself here earlier as well, people are too busy talking to each other about other countries' FGFA programs that no one seem to care. Even though this is massive, they literally revealed the design or at least what it could be.
It's the model of the Turkish jet guys
 

The Maverick

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Guys this is a genuine attempt

Is there a picture or genuine model so we know what this AZM is about

I have seen nothing yet anywhere
 

JamD

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Guys this is a genuine attempt

Is there a picture or genuine model so we know what this AZM is about

I have seen nothing yet anywhere
No. According to Air International interview with AM Noman of PAC, as of March 2021, Azm is "being conceptualized and preliminary designs are ongoing." In all likelihood, this means that the design has not been frozen so there cannot be a model that represents what Azm will look like.
 

CriticalThought

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I don't see things as black and white as you described. Yes the Chinese model is ideal, but the Indian model has achieved a lot of things for them. And let's not kid ourselves, we are closer to the Indians in technological prowess than to the Chinese. I am trying to argue that nobody (China or India) is born running, and you will need to fall a couple of times to learn the ropes. The reference to LCA was with regards to falling down. Of course you can do things differently when you get back up. There is no need to be dogmatic and kick people out and stuff. Not everything is an argument to the death lol.
Failing is OK, as long as you fail smart. The Chinese model is fail smart - you get a working product into the air and inducted into the airforce. The Indian model is stupid, let's not kid ourselves, and please let's not try to replicate that.
 

CriticalThought

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@JamD @Mohamed Bin Tughlaq @CriticalThought @TNT
I think the focus should be on radar, senor fusion and home grown BVR. Stealth comes later. The sensor fusion, radar, missiles, SEAD ops, should be researched first for Dual seater and Block III. Then go for AZM project.

Engine could be of foreign origin.
I suggested and Critical too that making a small engine (even smaller than 1/3rd) is a bigger feat. As smaller engines are used in drones (like in Sky Saker H300) and cruise missile. Also, may like Tucano type aircraft.
Kindly use my full name: CriticalThought
 

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