What's new

Poll - What inlet design would you like to see on the NGFA ?

What inlet design would you like to see on the NGFA ?

  • YF-23 Black Widow Style

    Votes: 37 46.3%
  • Dorsal inlets with DSI leading to S-channels

    Votes: 9 11.3%
  • F22 Raptor

    Votes: 22 27.5%
  • UCAVs (MQ-20) Style

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • DSI

    Votes: 7 8.8%
  • None of the above

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Other Solutions (Specify solution in thread)

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    80

CriticalThought

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 10, 2016
6,971
15
7,301
Country
Pakistan
Location
Australia
That would mean additional mechanics and sort of takes away from the idea of simplicity that came with a DSI. Well, nothing is for free so always compromises on something to gain another.
According to what I have read, the actuators for active flow control have no moving parts.
 

Indos

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Jul 25, 2013
13,431
22
17,270
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia
But the problem is, barely anyone here is competent enough to discuss and argue this topic simply due to a lack of understanding, even more without any information on the NGFA's requirements such a discussion even by the better informed members makes only little sense and will end up either in a plain useless poll based on pure aesthetics or personnel favour and in the worst case scenario in the possibility to mock and ridicule certain member's decision again since barely anyone here is competent enough to discuss and argue this topic.

Just my two cents.
Inlet design needs a Phd educated with broad experience, KF 21/IFX inlet design chief designer is from Indonesia though, not from Indonesian Aerospace, but ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology).
 

messiach

FULL MEMBER
Sep 23, 2016
1,319
19
4,738
Country
Austria
Location
United Kingdom
Many of the NGFA features will already have matured by the time its on the tarmac. Take note.

I had dynamic DSI in mind, but didn't know if the technology has matured enough because this is a 6th gen concept. If we can have it, then I am all for it.
Broadly correct. Under active development.

Think dynamic DSI with active flow control to control boundary layer before it enters the engine. Active flow control has been used to eliminate control surfaces. It would be a novel application to try and use it for removing the deficiencies of DSI. Maybe, you don't need DDSI to affect a wide range of morphing if you supplant with active flow control? @messiach
 

Shabi1

FULL MEMBER
Apr 17, 2006
1,913
6
2,822
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
If PAF going for a clean design and not J-31/35 approach, so far the only hint of Azm fighter we have on video is a 3D model analysis similar to the F-23 design. Combining the elevator and stabilizer is a approach also used on Russian Checkmate for reducing material cost and for added low observability.

If the F-23 had been built with today know how, here is a representation of what the production model would have looked like.

Intakes on this jet have DSI and jagged edges. Hybrid of J-10C and F-23 intake. Rear end on production F-23 was supposed to be narrower because original intakes were designed for future reverse thrust capability which was later not a requirement.

Since Azm is supposed to be a strike fighter as well the F-23 design gives additional IR suppression on exhaust.





 
Last edited:

messiach

FULL MEMBER
Sep 23, 2016
1,319
19
4,738
Country
Austria
Location
United Kingdom
This is estimated guess. I have given it elsewhere.

Length 18.3 m, Wingspan 12.0 m, height 4.4 m, wingarea 70.7 m2, gross weight 24,500 kg approx, max takeoff 38000 kg,fuel 10000 kg, power plant 144 kN x 2 (afterburner), max base speed number 2.5 M with cruise speed 2000 kmp, range 5790 km approx, combat radius half of range with ceiling at 65000 ft, G limits +9/-4, rate of climb 370 m/s, wing loading 70 lb/ft2, estimated T/W 0.95 (fully loaded with 70% fuel)

That is a moot question,
unless the flight characteristics and mission requirements are specified.
 

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR
Oct 15, 2015
22,596
174
42,875
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
This is estimated guess. I have given it elsewhere.

Length 18.3 m, Wingspan 12.0 m, height 4.4 m, wingarea 70.7 m2, gross weight 24,500 kg approx, max takeoff 38000 kg,fuel 10000 kg, power plant 144 kN x 2 (afterburner), max base speed number 2.5 M with cruise speed 2000 kmp, range 5790 km approx, combat radius half of range with ceiling at 65000 ft, G limits +9/-4, rate of climb 370 m/s, wing loading 70 lb/ft2, estimated T/W 0.95 (fully loaded with 70% fuel)
@ everyone
So we have the the data...to begin with the subject.
 

Sinnerman108

SENIOR MEMBER
Jul 20, 2009
7,756
-6
8,167
Country
Pakistan
Location
Saudi Arabia
This is estimated guess. I have given it elsewhere.

Length 18.3 m, Wingspan 12.0 m, height 4.4 m, wingarea 70.7 m2, gross weight 24,500 kg approx, max takeoff 38000 kg,fuel 10000 kg, power plant 144 kN x 2 (afterburner), max base speed number 2.5 M with cruise speed 2000 kmp, range 5790 km approx, combat radius half of range with ceiling at 65000 ft, G limits +9/-4, rate of climb 370 m/s, wing loading 70 lb/ft2, estimated T/W 0.95 (fully loaded with 70% fuel)
The most efficient design to that equation would be probably same as Grippen.
DSI puts a restriction on plane speed; which is almost at the cusp of what was provided to me.
 

Deino

INT'L MOD
Nov 9, 2014
10,789
14
18,030
Country
Germany
Location
Germany
Bhai plz tell us which engine gives 144kN thrust.some wild guess.

I had the same thought too right that moment she posted it ... concerning a Chinese engine, only a WS-10 derivate would fit (unless it is not a new design)
This is estimated guess. I have given it elsewhere.

Length 18.3 m, Wingspan 12.0 m, height 4.4 m, wingarea 70.7 m2, gross weight 24,500 kg approx, max takeoff 38000 kg,fuel 10000 kg, power plant 144 kN x 2 (afterburner), max base speed number 2.5 M with cruise speed 2000 kmp, range 5790 km approx, combat radius half of range with ceiling at 65000 ft, G limits +9/-4, rate of climb 370 m/s, wing loading 70 lb/ft2, estimated T/W 0.95 (fully loaded with 70% fuel)

Thanks a lot, that's something to start with and exactly what I requested in my first comment in this thread.
 

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR
Oct 15, 2015
22,596
174
42,875
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Bhai plz tell us which engine gives 144kN thrust.some wild guess.
Bhai Jan, there isn't one but there can be similar to Chinese engine. At-least start with data to configure an inlet and worry not about engine alone. You have engine details to help you out for inlet. Ab sab bata dain.
 

ali_raza

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 25, 2010
3,756
-2
3,246
hi
This is estimated guess. I have given it elsewhere.

Length 18.3 m, Wingspan 12.0 m, height 4.4 m, wingarea 70.7 m2, gross weight 24,500 kg approx, max takeoff 38000 kg,fuel 10000 kg, power plant 144 kN x 2 (afterburner), max base speed number 2.5 M with cruise speed 2000 kmp, range 5790 km approx, combat radius half of range with ceiling at 65000 ft, G limits +9/-4, rate of climb 370 m/s, wing loading 70 lb/ft2, estimated T/W 0.95 (fully loaded with 70% fuel)
144 kn
there aren’t many options available in the world in that class for us
This is estimated guess. I have given it elsewhere.

Length 18.3 m, Wingspan 12.0 m, height 4.4 m, wingarea 70.7 m2, gross weight 24,500 kg approx, max takeoff 38000 kg,fuel 10000 kg, power plant 144 kN x 2 (afterburner), max base speed number 2.5 M with cruise speed 2000 kmp, range 5790 km approx, combat radius half of range with ceiling at 65000 ft, G limits +9/-4, rate of climb 370 m/s, wing loading 70 lb/ft2, estimated T/W 0.95 (fully loaded with 70% fuel)
there aren’t many options available in the world in that class for us
even f100-229 we use in f16 is 129kn
i can think of ws10 that isn’t much powerful either
or maybe u can shed some light
Bhai Jan, there isn't one but there can be similar to Chinese engine. At-least start with data to configure an inlet and worry not about engine alone. You have engine details to help you out for inlet. Ab sab bata dain.
lol
u mean uts hypothesis
 

CodeforFood

FULL MEMBER
Mar 4, 2019
434
0
335
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
I had the same thought too right that moment she posted it ... concerning a Chinese engine, only a WS-10 derivate would fit (unless it is not a new design)



Thanks a lot, that's something to start with and exactly what I requested in my first comment in this thread.
My guess is that the data provided here is proportionately adjusted to get feedback and it does not point to something that exist or built in its current form :)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom