• Friday, May 25, 2018

Policeman martyred, dozens injured in Islamabad clashes; Army called

Discussion in 'Pakistani Siasat' started by Zibago, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    What matters is how much one follows Muhammad Peace be upon him, To me is mine and to others is their's .... no need to prove anything.

    And what is that blessing? Muhammad Peace be upon him is a messenger prophet and a human like many other messengers Peace be upon all of them ......... he Peace be upon him is وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ ......... and the message that he conveyed and spread is the blessing.

    You sure about the fourth one? The democratic principle of Islam is in unity .......... anyone who exits that unity is called Kharji ....... so exited here?
     
  2. Salik

    Salik FULL MEMBER

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    Who could have conveyed the message better than Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him? You are equating Him peace be upon him with other prophets who put their hands down and said to God to send His wrath upon the disbelievers.

    The existence of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is itself a blessing and to be proclaimed.

    Now you are going on extreme lines. Difference of opinion is not exiting the unity, unless one group denies the other by 'takfir'.
     
  3. KediKesenFare

    KediKesenFare SENIOR MEMBER

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    TRT World is basically a Pakistani network. :D I think that the majority of the stuff is South Asian. They are favored by the Turkish state due to the fact that they speak proper English and have generally a pro Turkish stance. However, this is an interesting interview with Interior Minister Ahsan Iqbal:


     
  4. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    Its not me saying that ....... its Quran that said that

    All of these sects / school of thoughts do takfir .......
     
  5. Ahmet Pasha

    Ahmet Pasha SENIOR MEMBER

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    The degree of shirk that takes place in Pakistan is alarming. People have big fat beards, have memorised the quran but have no understanding of message of quran, fiqh, islamic jurisprudence etc etc.

    But if somsimilar event were to take place they suddenly become asiq e rasool.

    I too was stopped from STUDYING quran. Instead was told to concentrate on becoming doctor or engineer. But if I were to call those people out on that. They would play the asiq e rasool card.

    The most stupidest mistake of Pakistani muslims is thinking that there is some mysterious hidden Islam, which only some Pirs understand.

    True strictly ACADEMIC knowledge( not wahabism or any other sect) is well preserved in Arab lands.

    There is actually a way of narrating a hadis or quoting the quran and verifying if the hadis is genuine or not. And what the verse actually says through tafsir

    No such methods are known to common Pakistani people. There is just too many fake hadis and baseless "Islamic" things I have heard while growing up in Pakistan.

    The most dangerous is the shirk and destruction is the black magic practioners and so called alims masquerading as pirs,alims etc etc.
     
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  6. Salik

    Salik FULL MEMBER

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    Don't go blind on the holy Quran. The holy Quran says;

    يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيراً وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيراً

    "He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby."

    Talk about the Imams, they had difference of opinion but never did 'takfir' of one another.
     
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  7. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    Not before people have understood the message. Its only for people who know the truth and still don't accept it.

    For them is what they did ............ for us is what we do, and all sects today do the takfir.
     
  8. Salik

    Salik FULL MEMBER

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    There's no mention of 'not accepting it'. This verse says that people accept it and act upon it and still they go astray, this is the meaning of 'thereby'.

    Please do not name them as sect because sect means to follow a particular Imam.
     
  9. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    How do you live with so much complication? Hidayat hy, noor hy, hikmat hy ....... and you are telling me that when people have finally accepted the hidayah they still go astray because of that hidaya?

    Every other person I meet is Barailvi, Deobandi, Ahle Hadees, Shia, and many other things ...... what are they exactly? And you think they don't do takfir on each other?
     
  10. Salik

    Salik FULL MEMBER

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    Now you are feeling the heat.

    وَتُخۡرِجُ الۡحَـىَّ مِنَ الۡمَيِّتِ وَتُخۡرِجُ الۡمَيِّتَ مِنَ الۡحَـىِّ

    "You bring forth the living out of the dead, and You bring the dead out of the living". That is ALLAH.

    Without a guide, a teacher, a peer e kamil you won't be able extract Hidayah from the holy Quran.

    There are quacks as in any field. You will have to find the right person. With sincerity in search, you'll find the right.

    They're more knowledgeable than their Imams. They all need refresh courses.
     
  11. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    Why would I feel the heat? Yes I feel saddened that an educated person like you has fallen prey to traditions and stopped thinking by himself. Quran is the imam and Quran is the guide .......... rest are mere mortals who would answer for their own deeds. Seek guidance from Quran and you will see the light ....... don't become a handicap and don't even think that Quran is dependent on peer fakeers.

    So Khadim Hussain is better than the historic imams ........ great ........ one request please just don't write any book to misguide the future generations, that how this great imam performed miracles at Faizabad and how angels descended from heavens to help his sit in. We already have enough.
     
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  12. Salik

    Salik FULL MEMBER

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    O' bhai Imam is word only for humans. You can't use it for the holy Quran. Like in some cases 'husband' when ignorant people marry their women with the holy Quran.

    Quran and Sahib-e-Quran are part and parcel. It is simple as that. Qissa Mukhtasr

    Please don't take a route to Faizabad interchange. We were talking about 'takfir'. Khadim Rizvi hasn't done 'takfir' of any one.

    I said that those who did 'takfir' they needed refresh courses of teachings of their particular Imams. Because Imams never did 'takfir' of one another.
     
  13. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    Who gets to decide who is the Sahib-e-Quran? Why can't you be the Sahib-e-Quran, why can't all of us be the Ashab-e-Quran? Qisa Ikhtitam.


    Different sects follow different Imams and these sects do takfir. Anyone can add anything and relate it to a Imam or a companion and we believe it ........
     
  14. Salik

    Salik FULL MEMBER

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    Sahib-e-Quran is only the person upon whom the holy Quran was descended, that is Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

    You my friend must be blessed by birth, a born saint. Like Jesus Christ, born without father and spoke in cradle without a teacher. I and others can't get that status without efforts and learning process. The knowledge passed on to the Companions and to their followers has reached us, helping in understanding the divine message. If you think that the role of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him has ended with his departure from this world why is the Holy Quran separately saying to obey Allah and separately saying to obey Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. As in this verse..

    ياأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُواللَّه وَأَطِيعُوٱلرَّسُولَ

    "O You who have believed, Obey Allah, obey the Messenger"

    Can you explain please, why is it said separately?

    Everything is written and preserved. No one can add and relate it to a Imam.

    'Takfir' happens with particular words said from the mouth. It isn't that common and easy as you are portraying. Criticizing one another is not 'takfir'.
     
  15. I.R.A

    I.R.A ELITE MEMBER

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    Didn't Messenger Peace be upon him asked his companions to be witness that He has successfully delivered and completed the Deen? What was the purpose for that?

    Didn't Abu Bakar May ALLAH be pleased with him addressed Muslims right after Wisal of Muhammad Peace be upon him that

    "O people, those of you who worshiped Muhammad Peace be upon, should know that he has died, and those of you who worship ALLAH, should know that ALLAH is immortal."

    The verse you quoted clearly addresses the people of State that Muhammad Peace be upon him was heading, obviously any law that Muhammad Peace be upon him formulated in accordance with the needs of that time was to be fully obeyed by the people of that time ....... and again obviously Muhammad Peace be upon him didn't formulate laws based on his personal capability, he derived guidance from the divine message.

    Okay ......... if you are so sure then why people keep saying this is Zaheef, that is Kazab etc etc?

    Everything that is written and preserved was based on verbal narrations by people who weren't even present when that even may have occurred. This written and preserved material tells you that Ayesha May ALLAH be pleased with her was married as young as 9 years old, and entered the marriage contract when she was 6 years old playing with dolls.