• Sunday, December 17, 2017

Policeman martyred, dozens injured in Islamabad clashes; Army called

Discussion in 'Pakistani Siasat' started by Zibago, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Shane

    Shane FULL MEMBER

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    Exactly! Even Outside the ruling elite, it has become fashionably easy to blame the Army and more recently, the judiciary.

    Sadly, most of our madrasa mullahs don't need any help in taking the blame, they are self sufficient in their narrow minded approach and sectarian divide on just about everything.

    Well Educated islamists Muslims of all schools of thoughts are a totally different, open minded, honourable and respectful people. Thats why we need serious investment of resources and well meaning as well as careful madresa reforms to broaden madrasa education and subsequently a better vision and brighter future.

    Brushing things under the carpet every time is not a solution but a cause for a worse outcome later on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  2. SunilM

    SunilM FULL MEMBER

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    'More demands have been accepted'
    According to Rizvi, in addition to the demands mentioned on the document, the following conditions of TLY have also been accepted by the government:

    [​IMG]
    TLY leader Khadim Rizvi announcing the end of the Faizabad sit-in on Monday.—White Star


    1. A board of clerics led by Pir Muhammad Afzal Qadri will be set up to probe remarks made by Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah against the persecution of Ahmedis. Sanaullah will have to accept the decision made by the board.

    2. No difficulty will be faced in registering cases under clause 295-C of the Pakistan Penal Code (blasphemy law).

    3. No leniency will be given to those convicted by courts for blasphemy.

    4. No ban will be imposed on the use of loudspeakers.

    5. The foreign and interior ministries will take steps for the release of Dr Aafia Siddiqui after taking her mother and sister in confidence.

    6. The holiday of Iqbal Day on November 9 will be revived.

    7. Two representatives of Tehreek-i-Labaik will be included in the panel assigned to decide changes in the textbook board. The officials will push for inclusion of translation of the Holy Quran and chapters about Seerat-un-Nabi (PBUH) and Muslim leaders.

    8. The chehlum of martyrs will be held on January 4 at Rawalpindi's Liaquat Bagh.

    9. Every year, November 25 will be observed as "Martyrs of Prophet's honour day".
    There has been no official confirmation or denial of agreeing to these demands from the government's side as yet.

    Is this true?Have these demand also been accepted by the state? Especially 7, 8 & 9? Was 4th Jan not the day on which Taseer was killed?

    Source : Dawn News.
     
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  3. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    Cheeky buggers

    there is no such thing as an islamist. all are muslims and there is no compulsion in religion nor there is any difference among the muslims except for taqwa and that can be judged by Allah only.
     
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  4. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    It's official: legal and democratic processes and norms, laws, constitutions, etc. are an irrelevant distraction when these conflict with the rule of the mob.

    Pakistan is now a mobocracy.

    Those who don't like it must either flee or establish mobs of their own, I suppose.
     
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  5. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    fake news dude
    its all fake
    do not trust anything unless its written in Russian.
     
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  6. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    "Война - это мир. Свобода - это рабство. Невежество - это сила."
     
  7. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    exactly Melania that is how one explains the marks on your back
     
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  8. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    Do you feel better now?
     
  9. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    Do you feel democracy now?
     
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  10. Shane

    Shane FULL MEMBER

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    You are correct. I was wrong to continue to use the term islamist of the post i was replying to. I meant Muslims. Thank you for the correction.

    Where did you find the "compulsion in religion" in my post or "difference among muslims" other than taqwa?
     
  11. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    actually i used the opportunity to make a complete statement. nothing related to your post ofcourse.
     
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  12. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    Not a bit:

    [​IMG]
    Lynching of a State from within
    A society busy in self destruction does not need any external threat or enemy to diminish it
    7:28 PM, November 27, 2017

    [​IMG]
    Imad Zafar

    Finally the Faizabad sit-in has been called off by the religious clerics after reaching a deal with the Government. The power military elite played a role in this and convinced the Government to ‘sacrifice’ Zahid Hamid . The law minister has resigned and the religious fanatics emerged as the victor.

    The government’s effort to disperse the protestors resulted in riots and protests across the country with religious fanatics occupying the major cities’ roads and burning and damaging public properties. Even now the situation is uncertain. The roads of Rawalpindi and Islamabad have been seized by the men equipped with sticks and stones.

    The religious fanatics are enjoying the support of a large section of the masses as the card of religion is being played cleverly by them. In Faizabad the main headquarters of the sit-in, a religious cleric Khadim Rizvi is virtually threatening to take the government down. The ministers and lawmakers from the ruling party are all hiding fearing attacks on them by the angry mob. And they rightly fear this, as the law minister and ex interior minister’s homes were set on fire by the mob.

    The government has virtually lost control of the situation and adding to the problem is the Army’s response that has cleverly tilted the situation in favor of religious fanatics. A tweet from DG ISPR, at a crucial time, stated that the Army chief called the prime minister and told him not to use force against the religious fanatics, in fact the tweet stated that both sides should resolve the matter peacefully. The timing and tone of this message has actually damaged the government’s position.

    First the faction of religious fanatics is being declared a stakeholder and then the State is being told that the Army will only protect buildings and will not disperse the mob. At a time when police were fighting on the front line against these fanatics the powerful military chose to just sit and watch the show. When the police were busy fighting with the religious terrorists and putting their lives at stake our mighty establishment was watching this whole show and did not come to help the government to disperse the fanatics.

    Every sane individual knows who was supporting the sit-in at Faizabad since the beginning; the use of proxies to get the desired result has actually brought us to a position where the whole world makes a mockery of us. First Bhutto was toppled by using the same proxy of religious clerics and by launching the famous PNA movement ultimately resulting in Bhutto’s ouster and hanging. But the cost we paid as a State and society for that adventure was too high. The religious clerics brought the culture of jihad and hatred for other sects and minorities in the country resulting in the deadliest bloodshed in the early and late 90s in the name of sects and religion.

    On the other hand people like Hafiz Saeed , Mullah Fazlullah and Omar Khalid Khorasani and many mullahs were patronized and perceived as strategic assets to counter enemies, but they actually became Frankensteins and started killing the creators. Now history is being repeated again, a similar PNA type movement is being launched by playing the blasphemy card and new strategic assets like Khadim Rizvi are being launched. Sadly, the authority that controls and dictates the religious and defence narratives of the State is not willing to learn from past mistakes. It is also not willing to understand the simple point that the world is being ruled by logic and knowledge, not by weapons and religious beliefs.

    In order to control and manipulate the State narratives the mighty establishment has actually weakened the State itself by going against the basic ideologies of the founding father of the nation. The alliance of the establishment and mullahs has actually given birth to the millions of extremists and they are virtually ticking time bombs, it only being a matter of time before they explode and take everything down with them. We have seen it in the past, almost 70,000 people dead in a decade being the result of this extreme mindset and if we are still not ready to quit the habit of nurturing religious fanatics then we will surely see many more dead.

    It is not the government that is losing, it is acutely the State that is weakening. The fanatics, armed with sticks and stones and burning public property, are portraying an image of a failed State and society to the world. Using religion for the gain of authority or to counter the enemy has actually buried the concept of a ‘social state’ and resulted in a State that is only hallucinated with countering conspiracies and threats which are actually not there in reality. After all, a society busy in self destruction does not need any external threat or enemy to diminish it.

    On the other hand, as an individual and as a society we have become the same drug addict who finds satisfaction by getting himself bitten by the snake. We worship the pirs, the mullahs and other fanatics despite knowing that these religious clerics are the snakes and they have always bitten us. From Maulana Abdul Aziz to Omar Khorasani and from Maulvi Fazulullah to Malik Ishaq; they all only killed the ones among us, not the so called enemies. I am sure the majority of people in our country have not read the amendments of the controversial bill that actually resulted in the riots, otherwise, they would have easily understood that there was nothing in the bill or amendment that can be termed blasphemous. But since we love to live in ignorance and find hatred to be the only way of catharsis, it really does not matter.

    Coming back to the sit-in, the incumbent government has actually lost authority and was unable to establish its authority on the mobs of religious fanatics. This means that the fight for authority and power is over and the mighty establishment has successfully put the final nail in the coffin of Sharif’s politics and his party. Sharif has surely now lost his stronghold of Punjab as the riots are spreading there and it will be the miracle of the century if Sharif survives this onslaught and escapes the same fate Bhutto’s.

    A victory finally for the establishment but this victory has come at a very high price. The social fabric and structure of the State is being destroyed in this fight. The trend of mob justice is being set and very soon the establishment will understand that this trend will not even spare them. The State is paralyzed and the whole world is watching a nuclear State held hostage to the religious fanatics whose only motive in life is to kill others in the name of religion and blasphemy . From now on, to survive in the country, common citizens will need certificates of patriotism and faith from the patriotic and religious authorities. The fanatics will decide who is a culprit and who is a holy man.

    The almighty establishment, in an effort to undermine the sitting government and Nawaz Sharif’s party, has actually undermined the State of Pakistan. Sharif has certainly gone but with him also the writ of the State. Unfortunately, this ugly blasphemy card has not only weakened Sharif’s party but also undermined the State. We all, as always, stood silently and watched another lynching like Mashal Khan’s. But this time, we were all witnessing the lynching of our generations to come. It was a lynching of a State by the State within.

    A political analysis of state surrender
    A guy, who has never been to a university, believes in his capacity to 'Islamise' science and perhaps to 'Pakistanise' the social science
    7:04 PM, November 28, 2017

    [​IMG]
    Farah Adeed

    Pakistan agreed to accept ‘all demands’ of the protesters. The protesters, then, announced their great victory and ended 22-days long Islamabad sit-in.

    There was a wave of change in Pakistan . Imran Khan and his PTI were claiming to be the champions of the change. But hopes, dreams and little expectations have been white washed by the mob in Faizabad.

    From a failed merger of MQM-P and PSP to this Dharna in the capital things have, it seems so obvious, the same origin and the same ‘planner’. But the failure of the merger and the end of Dharna does not mean the end of intervention of ‘hidden hand’ in Pakistan’s politics. It means quite otherwise.

    At a broader level, it goes beyond. It does not only establish a link between the ‘hidden-hand’ and politics of the country. Now it has generated a heated debate about the meaning and scope of democracy in Pakistan .

    Pakistan is an interesting country where semi-educated, self-declared scholars offer nothing substantial but only convoluted explanations based upon subjectively determined comparisons between the East and the West in order to justify gender inequalities and an illiberal, or to be more accurate, a confused democracy in Pakistan .

    A wrongful practice of democratic theory in the United States or a rape of a girl in Germany do not justify the mob violence or public molestation of a girl in Pakistan . We need to have some objective standards rather than completely relying on others for our actions. A reactionary society is always suggested to have some serious self-introspection to identify as to what went wrong, and how to bring socio-political settings back to normal?

    The gathering of people at the funeral of an assassin or some cases of mob violence in the country does not demonstrate the embodiment of the idea of western popular democracy. It can be either of the military’s or the mosque’s democracy, but not a genuine democracy.

    Democracy is a philosophy, a theory and a system of governance which is a mean to an end, not an end itself. Moreover, it is, unlike religious beliefs, an evolutionary phenomenon which evolves and transforms for being real, accommodative and supportive. The end of transformation in a democracy sullies the sheen of the very idea of democratic outlook of a culture.

    A mob is different from a peaceful demonstration, so are its demands and means of communication. A mob generally comes in to force the government to pay attention to their demands and respond to them accordingly.
    Politically speaking, when the leaders of smaller groups make sense while remaining within the existing constitutional and political settings it is hard for them to gain attention and secure political support then they tend to challenge the status quo. A genuinely Machiavellian politics comes at play and several extra-constitutional means are chosen to achieve vested political interests.

    Therefore, a group of five or six thousand people represents the entire community and as per democratic norms their demands should be addressed as technically indigestible. There is a process to convey people’s demands, to fashion legislation and, above all, fundamental rights are constitutionally protected. A violent minority does not have any right to dictate a government elected by a vast majority or to deprive the lay-public of their fundamental rights.

    Pakistan was on a correct path. An image of a moderate, peaceful Pakistan was being established across the globe. But we went even behind India where BJP is ruining the country’s hard-earned secular outlook. In Pakistan , as the state has surrendered the civil society remained shocked, the judiciary was upset and the youth is still not sure as to what has happened?

    Things are quite clear now: who rules in Pakistan ? Who controls religious fanatics? What happens whenever a civilian government dares to go against the interests of the ‘hidden-hand’? What is the significance and standing of a civilian government in Pakistan ? What is the role of political opposition? What is the future of a ‘moderate-like’ Pakistan ?

    A precedent has been set. The government has maintained it. The ‘hidden-hand’ ensured its continuity. The religious elite assured us to avail it whenever they want to.

    Next step is going to be a radical change in the curriculum with the consultation of an under-matric Hafiz-e-Quran. A guy, who has never been to a university, believes in his capacity to 'Islamise' science and perhaps to 'Pakistanise' the social science.

    This is an awkward moment in the history of Pakistan . It is not just about the ‘hidden-hand’ and PML-N . Everyone in Pakistan will have to pay heavy price for this unconditional surrender of the state before an extremist group.
     
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  13. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    PMLN interior minister has been crying about it for over a month. Even threatened to resign saying he won't tolerate a state within the state.

    You can ask him when will he eventually resign.
     
  14. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    So what? Pakistan is a deeply, hugely, immensely patient nation that can easily bear such a burden.
     
  15. Solomon2

    Solomon2 ELITE MEMBER

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    Some people today think the France of Louis XIV was the height of French culture and power. And it was - until the King got greedy for glory and power. The result was needless wars and incredible impoverishment, to the point of starvation and death. All tolerated because so many supported the institutions of monarchy for so long.