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CHI RULES

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FIA should lead it, why ISI?
The people who have some interaction with FIA know very well how transparent FIA is, it is one of the most corrupt organisation which has facilitators of human trafficking within it's structure meanwhile use of money and power is quite common in many financial cases handled by FIA, majority of poor people are being grilled by FIA. One should instead of suggesting making it a bigger umbrella, either it should be dissolved or have limited role with strict counter checks.
 

TheSnakeEatingMarkhur

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A lot of reforms are need of time for FIA. Currently, FIA is acting like nothing more than immigration & cyber crime wing and that's it. PSP officers from Police Department are especially either posted or they bribe the echelons to be posted for their own set of personal gains & interests. Previously the likes of Rehman Malik/Zardari have exploited the secrete door of deputation from Police Department for the interest of PPPP itself and that's it. FIA has to transformed to be at par such as FBI to say the least.

Agreed that direct recruitment in transparent/independent way are the solutions only for competent yet free of political influence FIA. Unfortunately, the most corrupt & incompetent lot has been ruling the country as legislators and they have created a complex web of law/rules which in the end serves none but these politicos directly in individual capacity. A deliberate exploitation is done in the name of legislation/rules/Standing Orders etc so that all the offices as such runs free of any supervision and separately with their egos except to report to the most corrupt politician.
Cyber crime prevention by fia is a joke mate
 

Chacha_Facebooka

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Some thoughts:
  1. Have some checks and balances(judicial and parliamentary).
  2. Merge FIA into IB, give it resources, and have it deal with all domestic issues.
  3. ISI should focus on external matters. While I don't think this will happen anytime soon, civilianization of ISI should be done like it was with CIA and Mi6. Right now, it's an arm of the military instead of an arm of the state.
  4. Give police the reforms and resources they need. Arm them to the teeth, and have them deal with the security situation with in the country. Get military out of policing--it is causing more problems than it is solving.
  5. Create a border force by merging rangers, frontier corps, airport security force etc.
  6. Create an org that protects VIPs(PM, President, judges etc).
  7. Create an org that runs the prisons. Police running them is a bad idea.
  8. Create a intelligence agency that handles cyber domain.
 

Ahmet Pasha

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Thank God ISI is getting some red bull to give it new wings which had been cut post Soviet Afghan war.
More Structural reforms are needed in the national security system.

FIA Reforms.
  • IB, SB, NACTA, CTD, ANF, and other civilian intelligence services, etc should be merged into FIA as independent wings to create an empowered organization like the FBI, FSB, or MI-5.

  • SWAT Units raised under FIA CTW in all high-risk districts, further supported by SOF units of PM forces in the desired areas.

  • FIA Detachments deployed in every single district and will be the primary operator against terrorism-related cases.

  • FIA should be tasked with taking full burden of domestic security including taking legal custody of suspects from sister agencies.

  • PSP officers will not be posted to FIA on jobs, FIA's own career officers cadre will form the core and command of the organization, who are selected through a transparent and competitive exam system.

  • FIA Chief will directly report to the Prime Minister.

  • FIA will be under stringent oversight of the Govt and Senate committees.
The ISI.
  • The ISI should have effective control over the MI, AI, NI, and other Military Intelligence outfits.

  • The primary mandate of the ISI should be to perform 'foreign' missions, special operations, and other high tiers of strategic defense.
Wouldn't this fall under Ministry of Interior? Isn't empowering FC(B) a challenge because Army says it falls under MoI for example??
 

S A L M A N.

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Everyone is lamenting at how the choice of the DG ISI to lead this organization is disastrous. However, this phenomena can not be looked at in isolation.
The military lot in security services ('The Establishment') is not growing in influence as a result of itself. It is growing because there remains no intact civilian organization which can keep the powers of the military apparatus in check. Civilian organizations are inept, corrupt and in most cases have links to criminal and terrorist elements.
The FIA and IB are no exception. With a competent officer now in command of the FIA, we can perhaps expect some changes. However, the era of complete civilian supremacy in the intelligence and security sphere is still a dream that will take decades to materialize.

Pakistan needs a civilian, internal security setup similar to the FBI. This organization must function under a newly created ministry of internal/homeland security.

The other external intelligence and covert action agencies (both civilian and military must function under direct command of the Prime Minister, similar to the British MI6)

FIA - Internal Security, Investigations, Intelligence and Counter-intelligence
Must function as a federal police investigations force with overarching powers and responsibilities.
The responsibilities and powers of Pakistan Customs, IB, FMU, NAB must be merged under the umbrella of the FIA.
- CT/AT (internal)
- Immigration
- Customs and border protection (ports, airports, land routes)
- High-profile criminal investigation
- Investigation and intelligence regarding internal suspicious/anti-state elements
- Cybersecurity and cyber crime investigations
- Financial and white-collar crime


ISI - Foreign Intelligence & Counter-intelligence
The ISI must be the sole Pakistani intelligence operator overseas. Legal provisions must prohibit the ISI from any role in the internal security sphere, just as the CIA can not even touch an American citizen.
The ISI must report directly to the Prime Minister.
- Monitoring Pakistani Missions overseas
- Operating intelligence gathering networks overseas (HUMINT, SIGINT, ELINT)
- Focal point for space satellite or UAV/aircraft-based imagery gathering and analysis
 

arjunk

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Give police the reforms and resources they need. Arm them to the teeth, and have them deal with the security situation with in the country. Get military out of policing--it is causing more problems than it is solving.
All that will happen is wadere ke bache going around in papas hilux with sirens with even more guards in phase 8. Rangers are the only thing stopping Karachi from becoming little Afghanistan. Sindh Police is useless and works for political interests of its masters PP.
 

Chacha_Facebooka

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All that will happen is wadere ke bache going around in papas hilux with sirens with even more guards in phase 8. Rangers are the only thing stopping Karachi from becoming little Afghanistan. Sindh Police is useless and works for political interests of its masters PP.
I should have made the word "reforms" bold.
 

Jf-17 block 3

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Idk why ppl want civilianization of ISI and want a civilian to be in charge of it.
ISI is the number 1 intelligence agency in the world.
ISI the only intelligence agency in the world to have no double agents and none their agents ever been caught
ISI Successes include:
- destroying soviets
- Preventing soviets from invading Pakistan
- hunting down cia agents in Pakistan
- hunting down raw agents in Pakistan
- hunting down mossad agents around the world and assassinating them and the former Israeli defence minister admit this
- Helping Palestinians freedom fighters
- helping Bosnian Muslims
- helping Taliban
- helping Kashmiri freedom fighters
ISI has only been this successful because we had generals in charge of it and most of our agents were ex military people.

A civilian will never be able to perform like a isi agent from the military.
 

shershahsur

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View attachment 690628

• ISI chief to head new organisation
• Absence of such a committee was seen as a hurdle to collective strategising


ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan has approved the setting up of the National Intelligence Coordination Committee (NICC), a senior security source said on Monday.


The new body would be led by the director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), who would function as its chairman.


The intelligence agencies have had at least two rounds of discussions on the issue after which the proposal was submitted to the prime minister for approval. It is expected that the first meeting of the coordination body could be held as early as next week.


“Although there have been discussions about the establishment of the coordination forum, its terms of reference and modus operandi would be decided once it formally takes shape,” the source said, while speaking on the background.


The NICC would serve as a mechanism to coordinate the over two dozen intelligence organisations in the country. National Counter Terrorism Authority would also be part of the new structure.


The move is part of the long-awaited reform of the intelligence apparatus, which aims at clarifying the role of respective agencies, improving their coordination, and optimising their capabilities.


One of the lessons learnt by the country during the fight against terrorism was that effective intel coordination was the weakest link in the entire effort. It importantly resulted in loss of critical time and in some cases, the agencies even could not piece together the information available to them. It was, moreover, a major hurdle to collective strategising.


A leaked version of the Abbottabad Commission’s report had revealed that the commission, while noting the absence of civil-military intelligence coordination mechanism, too had proposed establishment of an agency on the lines of the US Department of Homeland Security to synergise the working of main spy agencies in the country.


Abbottabad Commission was set up to investigate the circumstances surrounding the killing of Osama bin Laden in a US raid on a compound in Abbottabad in 2011. Although, the report has not been officially declassified, it reportedly made 32 wide-ranging recommendations to address the issues identified during the course of its investigation on the basis of testimonies by key civilian and military functionaries; intel coordination was one of them.


There have in the past been multiple attempts at developing this coordination, but little progress could be made because of differences over the leadership of the new body, which has now been settled.


On July 26, 2008, the then Peoples Party government even notified the placement of ISI and IB under the “administrative, financial, and operational control” of the Interior Ministry. But, the decision was reversed within 24 hours due to strong reservations of one of the organisations.


Similar efforts were made during the PML-N government, when Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan headed the interior ministry.


Published in Dawn, November 24th, 2020

Source:https://www.dawn.com/news/1592030/pm-okays-creation-of-liaison-body-for-spy-agencies

@Horus @The Eagle @Foxtrot Alpha @Zarvan @Path-Finder
This will provide a solid platform to all the intelligence agencies to share information with each other for targetted and timely actions against terrorist and culprits.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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Looks like the Pak Ordu wants to undo the major disasters: NS, AZ etc. and their proxies in government, business, judiciary, media etc. who have been programmed by the Sheyatin to kill Pak from inside...
 

Chacha_Facebooka

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Idk why ppl want civilianization of ISI and want a civilian to be in charge of it.
For greater oversight and to make sure that it is working for the state rather than an institution of the state.

ISI is the number 1 intelligence agency in the world.
By what metric? Most of what intelligence agencies do is classified. What are you basing your assessment on?

ISI the only intelligence agency in the world to have no double agents and none their agents ever been caught
Funny, I heard that about Mossad as well. Anyways, I think you lack a basic understanding of intelligence gathering. Intelligence officers don't gather information themselves. They recruit other people(agents), who are well placed, to gather information. These agents do get caught, and have been caught. Sometimes, they are discovered but intentionally fed false information. The notion that ISI does not have double agents or that their agents have never been caught is ridiculous. If a person can betray his/her own country, they can betray ISI.

- destroying soviets
- Preventing soviets from invading Pakistan
ISI did not destroy the Soviet Union--you can thank America and the communist system for that. It did help to beat them in Afghanistan, but if you think that they did it on their own, then you are deluding yourself.

ISI has only been this successful because we had generals in charge of it and most of our agents were ex military people.

A civilian will never be able to perform like a isi agent from the military.
I don't know man. CIA, Mi6, and other five-eyes agencies seem to work fine. CIA knows almost everything that is happening in Pakistani government/military circles(just look at their declassified files). ISI knows little to nothing about what is happening in American government/military circles(although that may be due to lack of resources but then you can't claim to be # 1). Modern intelligence agencies need a wide variety of people.

ISI is a very competent agency but it needs reform. It is kind of like an immune system that sometimes starts attacking its own body.
 

Cash GK

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Good step...so finally all intelligence agencies will have same kibla...info source and execution will he easy.. smaller agencies will have a chance to learn from big dady...no ground conflict..best ever decision. It will be nightmare for enemies
 

Zarvan

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More Structural reforms are needed in the national security system.

FIA Reforms.
  • IB, SB, NACTA, CTD, ANF, and other civilian intelligence services, etc should be merged into FIA as independent wings to create an empowered organization like the FBI, FSB, or MI-5.

  • SWAT Units raised under FIA CTW in all high-risk districts, further supported by SOF units of PM forces in the desired areas.

  • FIA Detachments deployed in every single district and will be the primary operator against terrorism-related cases.

  • FIA should be tasked with taking full burden of domestic security including taking legal custody of suspects from sister agencies.

  • PSP officers will not be posted to FIA on jobs, FIA's own career officers cadre will form the core and command of the organization, who are selected through a transparent and competitive exam system.

  • FIA Chief will directly report to the Prime Minister.

  • FIA will be under stringent oversight of the Govt and Senate committees.
The ISI.
  • The ISI should have effective control over the MI, AI, NI, and other Military Intelligence outfits.

  • The primary mandate of the ISI should be to perform 'foreign' missions, special operations, and other high tiers of strategic defense.
IB yes should be merged. CTD and CID should be merged with Special Branch of each province. FIA should be federal body and Special Branch of every province should be responsible for every sort of crime from small theft to terrorism. ISI should slowly back off from internal intelligence and operations.
FIA should lead it, why ISI?
Neither DG FIA should head it nor should DG ISI. It should be either defence minister or interior minister or national security adviser or create a new ministry to head it.
 

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