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PM Modi, Pak PM Shehbaz Sharif to meet in Tashkent? Modi may visit Pakistan!

Vapnope

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Not after abrogation of Article 5 and illegal annexation of Kashmir by India
2 years after the abrogation,


And just recently he praised indian foreign policy as independent and only aimed at the betterment of their people despite knowing that Indian side has done everything possible to isolate Pakistan and hurt Pakistanis with every means possible.

Abay bhai kitna jhoot bolo gai

Bas kar do. Ramzan ka maheena hai. Shaban main kar laina boot polish
Han bhai sb jhut hai.
Sb kuch bs NS k daur main hota hai IK daur main to kashmir b fatah kia tha Tiger force ne.

Given that India is not an occupying cancer like Israel
Haha tell that to kashmiris who continue to fight Indian forces and let me know what they say.
 

Areesh

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2 years after the abrogation,


And just recently he praised indian foreign policy as independent and only aimed at the betterment of their people despite knowing that Indian side has done everything possible to isolate Pakistan and hurt Pakistanis with every means possible.

What IK did makes sense. What else he could do when Bajwa sahab was against supporting resistance in IOK?

Still he didn't resume relations with India even if Bajwa sahab wanted to like it is happening now

And he was right about foreign policy. India did what is good for their country. Nothing wrong in praising that

Sb kuch bs NS k daur main hota hai IK daur main to kashmir b fatah kia tha Tiger force ne.

Nahi bhai Kashmir ab fatah hoga

DHA sai lashkar nikalnai wala hai. Bas aap zara jaldi sai boot polish kar dain
 
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shahbaz+sharif+funny+pic.jpg
Beggar can’t be chooz3R...
 

Vapnope

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What IK did makes sense. What else he could do when Bajwa sahab was against supporting resistance in IOK?

Still he didn't resume relations with India even if Bajwa sahab wanted to like it is happening now
Maybe fire him?
Not give him extension?

And what relations are you talking about? Razak dawood on record said more than establishing the relationship.
Indian exports continued in Pakistan even after abrogation of article 370.

Bas aap zara jaldi sai boot polish kar dain

Jitne boot polish PTI walon ne kiye hain utna tareekh main kabhi ni howay.
Look at fauji appointments on civilian positions during IK's era par apne patti bandhi hoi hai ankhon pr. Boot polish ka hal ye hai k aik low tier bndy ko sahiwal main saza ni dilwa saky.
 

Areesh

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Maybe fire him?
Not give him extension?

And what relations are you talking about? Razak dawood on record said more than establishing the relationship.
Indian exports continued in Pakistan even after abrogation of article 370.

You really think IK can fire bajwa sahab in this country? :lol:

That guy survived 4 PMs in his tenure

As for exports after abrogation of article 370. Yeah those continued since military stopped supporting resistance in IOK and also did a ceasefire with the enemy at LOC

not doing little bit of trade made no sense

Jitne boot polish PTI walon ne kiye hain utna tareekh main kabhi ni howay.
Look at fauji appointments on civilian positions during IK's era par apne patti bandhi hoi hai ankhon pr. Boot polish ka hal ye hai k aik low tier bndy ko sahiwal main saza ni dilwa saky.

Got to agree with this on you

PTI did boot polis and paid the price

Ab tum bhi band kar do
 

Chak Bamu

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@Chak Bamu
Looks like a new normal will be created for India in Kashmir. Basically reverses the policy of not negotiating with India with out reversal of annexation.
I had mentioned this in a post before, but never thought it would be so quick:

India already created a new normal. Pakistan just helped them along.

A bit of background first: The first time Pakistan had to go on back-foot over Kashmir, diplomatically speaking, was in the aftermath of Kargil. This is pretty common knowledge among those in the know & if you have a contact in Foreign Office, you may confirm this for yourself. Mushy painted Pakistan as a back-stabbing villain & we could not explain ourselves. Why do not really think that NS wanted to get rid of Mushy in 1999?

Once Mushy came in via his dastardly coup, he took the first really damaging steps on the ground. he pulled troops back from LOC. IA quickly built its bunkers that it otherwise could not have done. This cemented LOC as a de-facto border. So the first real & permanent reversal to Pakistan's Kashmir cause was done by Mushy, both on the diplomatic level & on the actual ground. Both these things worked in India's favor. Influential capitals closed their ears to Pakistan's case & India successfully convinced the world that Pakistan was an unstable state that never was able to build democratic credentials or institutions. So get this straight: the real damage done to Pakistan's Kashmir cause / case was a stupid, adventurous, & a traitor general.

Pakistan has long known that their is no military solution to Kashmir issue apart from keeping Indians in a stalemate. That is why when Modi killed Article 370 & declared IOK as regular Indian territory, Pakistan did absolutely nothing. Had it been a pre-1999 situation, we could have done something substantial, but we could do nothing in 2019.

As time passes, we see more & more results of security-centered policies that come back to bite Pakistan. Politicians claw back some much needed international legitimacy, only to find him/her undermined by a general. In the pre-2019 conditions, we had done solid work in track-2 diplomacy. What became of it? NS got called Modi Ki Yar & when civilian leadership tried to convince Establishment of the need to let go of failed policies, we got Dawn Leaks as a result. NS was finally pushed out & a bit later new government of PTI was installed via rigged GE2018 (I've shared evidence, modus operandi, & rationale for doing so in multiple posts elsewhere). What happened thereafter when BJP-led government rescinded Article 370? Nothing! Absolutely Nothing. We had checkmated ourselves.

Now what recourse does Pakistan have in this current situation?

It would be instructive to understand overtures from Establishment for some pseudo-normalization with India (refer to QJB's speech in recent Security Conference in Islamabad). Do not assume that SS is doing this on his own. PML-N would not be allowed to sit in the driving seat if you truly believe that there was a conspiracy to remove PTI government. You can not believe that & then imagine that SS as PM is charting an independent course.

What Pakistan desires is a respite during which we can reorganize ourselves, improve economy, repair damaged foreign relations, & show the world that we are partners in peace. Once such a position is achieved, Establishment can shift gear, have the PM (whoever he may be) kicked out just like NS was kicked out, blame a 'corrupt' government of colluding with the enemy, & reverse policies for own convenience. We'll get a 'patriotic' & 'nationalistic' Mr. Clean leader, who would be beholden to the Establishment for a shot at the PM slot. If this works out (will not, because it never does), Pakistan would be back in business & raise temperature in Kashmir.

The above is my dispassionate reading of the situation. You may choose to ignore it and continue to beat PTI drum. Fair enough. But do not be surprised at the dissonance in the future.
 

Chak Bamu

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I have a simple question from informed, respected, and popular Pakistanis of this forum.
@waz @Azadkashmir @Chak Bamu @The Eagle @WebMaster @Indus Pakistan @Windjammer @Signalian @HRK @PanzerKiel @Bratva @ghazi52 @BHarwana @Big Tank @Sulman Badshah @PakAlp @Mangus Ortus Novem @graphican @HAIDER @Abid123 @Foxtrot Alpha @Reichsmarschall @others

As it seems there are voices from inside Pakistan being heard that are asking for settling issues between India-Pakistan. Even one of the popular figures from Pakistani leaders such as Imran Khan admired India for its independent foreign policy before and after being ousted by internal/external hands.

Given that India is not an occupying cancer like Israel, i am sure that peace can can be achieved btw Pakistan and India. There are people on both sides, a sizeable group of South Asians, that are already asking for peace and that a long lasting one.

My question, wouldn't it be better you did it when Kashmir had autonomy and India under Singh was more peaceful than today's India under Modi, wouldn't it be better for Pakistan to allow IPI the peace pipeline reached India through Pakistan making Pakistan an energy hub of South Asia?

This is a big question of mine, unanswered. Would be glad to know your thoughts on this strange decision made by Pakistanis.
A man kept a monkey as a pet. The naughty monkey found a thin necked jar full of almonds & stuck its hand in to grab a handful. Now his over-stuffed fist was stuck in the jar & would not come out of the jar's neck. Monkey's greed would not allow it to let go of the almonds & it could not get its fist out of the jar either. The man came & saw the monkey, laughed at the situation, tried to encourage the monkey to let go. But the monkey's greed & lack of intelligence kept it from understanding the choice. Finally, the man thumped monkey's head & in panic the monkey let go of the almonds & get its hand out of the jar.

Pre-Kargil was the only time when Pakistan could have achieved an advantageous position. After Kargil, no matter what Pakistan did, we could never even get traction. This is the sad truth. Pakistan's Establishment has always undermined civilian decision-makers to the detriment of the nation & state. NS established track-2 diplomacy, but found himself beset by attack dogs - that was in 2016-2017. India unilaterally revoked IOK's special status in 2019, reneging on its commitment to Kashmiris. Pakistan could do nothing, because the set of choices imposed upon us by our own Establishment had created such a weak position that the Establishment itself could not contemplate a suitable riposte to the development.

Now SS feels empowered to make a move. Poor chap probably realizes that he is just as disposable a civilian as his elder brother Nawaz Sharif, & (even) Imran Khan were. But I suppose a PM (at least one serious about his job) works out of a sense of duty. Do expect him to be sacrificed when needed after being blamed for everything wrong under the sun, including holding talks (which Establishment itself wants now due to an exceedingly untenable position) with India.

Pakistan is a wonderous country. The seasons change in an instant.

PS> I wrote a similar post. See penultimate post above.
 

N.Siddiqui

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That is an essential part of so-called Bajwa Doctrine.


This Bajwa can't have a doctrine, he is now a Pawn to the Intl'/US Estab. pulling his strings and calling the shots.

As retd. Gen. Shoib Amjad has said and I was also thinking on these lines, to counter China, and China-Russia Bonhomie and Collab. US want to pitch India against the China, but India was like how can India fight and resist Pakistan on the Eastern border of her, and the Giant China on the other side.

So this new gameplan which India gave to US, If Pakistan threat is neutered we can fully focus on China. The reason Bajwa and Shahbaz wants a functioning good relationship with India, at the cost of Kashmir and at all cost. This includes cut in military expend. and maybe compromising on nukes.

As the reason Pakistan always gave to US and West was the threat fom India was clear and present and the reason Pak need Nukes, and west was kind of OK with it as the Nukes were not a threat to them. Once India threat is gone, on paper, the Nukes can be compromised, just as Ukraine did, paying the price.

Bajwa and Shahbaz govt. can do this compromise...
 
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SIPRA

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This Beghairat Bajwa can't have a doctrine, he is now a Pawn to the Intl'/US Estab. pulling his strings and calling the shots.

As retd. Gen. Shoib Amjad has said and I was also thinking on these lines, to counter China, and China-Russia Bonhomie and Collab. US want to pitch India against the China, but India was like how can India fight and resist Pakistan on the Eastern border of her, and the Giant China on the other side.

So this new gameplan which India gave to US, If Pakistan threat is neutered we can fully focus on China. The reason Bajwa and Shahbaz wants a functioning good relationship with India, at the cost of Kashmir and at all cost. This includes cut in military expend. and maybe compromising on nukes.

As the reason Pakistan always gave to US and West was the threat fom India was clear and present and the reason Pak need Nukes, and west was kind of OK with it as the Nukes were not a threat to them. Once India threat is gone, on paper, the Nukes can be compromised, just as Ukraine did, paying the price.

Bajwa and Shahbaz govt. can do this compromise...

Yes. That is precisely the plan. US wanted it since, at least, 1960. Now, they have been able to sell it to PA, it seems.
 

N.Siddiqui

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Yes. That is precisely the plan. US wanted it since, at least, 1960. Now, they have been able to sell it to PA, it seems.


Now there will be news coming from US and West like IMF talks/deal with the new govt. is a success and IMF is giving relief to Pakistan with newer loans.

And maybe news about Pakistan out of FATF greylist or in the process.

All these tricks and treachery is known to everyone, whenever a regime change operation is done in any country by the US.
 

N.Siddiqui

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Yes. That is precisely the plan. US wanted it since, at least, 1960. Now, they have been able to sell it to PA, it seems.

I have deleted the word Beghairat describing Bajwa from earlier post as quite a few posts of mine were deleted. :azn:

As this goes without saying...
 

N.Siddiqui

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You are quite fortunate. I have been banned twice for such thing. :lol:


I was never ever banned, warned once(not now, related to some religion vibes), and just two posts criticising Bajwa was deleted. So yes not that bad...

Idea is to mix and match....continuously treading a line will make it too obvious, kind of a balancing act. Like ex PM IK is doing, he said he cannot say anything against the Fauj, he appreciates them always, has said Pak would have broken into three countries if not for the Fauj, but at the same time doing things confronting Bajwa, the individual, not taking his name.

Now the Fauji Jawans will still love Imran Khan, even if a few Gens. are against him.
 
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