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PM Imran live address to the nation on banned TLP issue

insight-out

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Our plight is that none of our leaders are dependable. On the one hand we have TLP, but on the other hand we have Imran Khan whose government is holding talks with Imran Khan about trade without mentioning 370 anywhere, but his foreign ministry gives statements about Kashmir being central to talks. He is a hypocrite, U-turning undependable man, who would make Pakistan an irreligious state if he had the power to do so. New production factories of alcohol are being created in his government, swinery is being celebrated and dance parties featuring Satan are being held. He is not the type of person who leads Islam and Muslims to greatness.
You have not answered my question. Instead, you went on a rant that is totally irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
 

Del

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I googled the two agreements.

The first one says, "hukoomat France ke safeer ko do ya teen mah ke arse ke andar Parliament se faisla sazi ke zarye mulk badr kare gi".

The second one says, "muahide ki shiqon ko 20 April 2021 tak Parliament men paish kar diya jaiga, awr faisle Parliament ki manzoori se te paenge".

Images of the agreements below. In both cases, it says that Parliament would have to approve.

View attachment 735559 View attachment 735560
So few question in answer to your post bro.

1) Why Govt hasnt taken this up into the Parliament yet, whats stopping them?

2) Do you really this that any parliamentarian will object or raise his/her voice against this matter? They have to live in Pakistan, so obviously it would've been passed with no objection.

3) And hypnotically speaking, once it has been approved from the parliament then what option(s) would be left for Govt for not expelling France's ambassador from Pakistan? Anybody could see it coming, therefore Govt wanted to resolve it before it reaches to the dead end.
 

insight-out

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Whatever the wording, the basic issue here is that religious extremism is being allowed to set the legislative agenda for the parliament, which speaks volumes about the State having forfeited its authority to pressure groups.
These are legal matters. The wording is absolutely important.

TLP is indeed pressuring the government, and the government is making certain decisions under pressure. That I agree with. But that is how democracy is supposed to work.

The fact that the government only committed to bringing it to Parliament, is in fact proof that it is not forfeiting its authority to pressure groups.
 

Mav3rick

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That is one side of the story. How about he removes the one sided media ban which has been extended on not just TLP, but the entire religious community. Let them tell us their side of the story, so we can determine what is right and what is wrong.
Blocking of roads, preventing our rights to move freely, attacking state institutions and LEA's etc., all on the pretext of defending against blasphemy and disrespect of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) when we all know that it is all about politics. Who even knew Saad Rizvi a week ago?

The Government should have crushed the troublemakers even if it meant indiscriminate use of assault weapons. These movements to blackmail successive Governments, repeated holding of the public hostage and blocking of roads should end once and for all.
 

CriticalThought

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Blocking of roads, preventing our rights to move freely, attacking state institutions and LEA's etc., all on the pretext of defending against blasphemy and disrespect of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) when we all know that it is all about politics. Who even knew Saad Rizvi a week ago?

The Government should have crushed the troublemakers even if it meant indiscriminate use of assault weapons. These movements to blackmail successive Governments, repeated holding of the public hostage and blocking of roads should end once and for all.
If the government is censoring their side of the story, we cannot say exactly why they committed those actions. This is the key thing which every pro-government supporter seems to be missing. Let the media present their side of the story, and only then we will know the truth.

If I were to conjecture, I would say the government precipitated these riots by arresting their key leaders. The rioting is not for blasphemy, it is because draconian actions of the government. It is a conjecture, which can only be proven/disproven if TLP's side of the story is allowed.

It is a basic principle of rationality and fairness that in any dispute one listens to both parties. If the government is censoring the other side, that already shows us that the government is abusing its power and authority to suppress the opponent. If the government can descend to such lows, it can take other disgusting actions which may have led to these riots.
 

VCheng

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These are legal matters. The wording is absolutely important.

TLP is indeed pressuring the government, and the government is making certain decisions under pressure. That I agree with. But that is how democracy is supposed to work.

The fact that the government only committed to bringing it to Parliament, is in fact proof that it is not forfeiting its authority to pressure groups.
Democracy does not work by the government sitting down with such illegal pressure groups. It only emboldens them and destroys due processes necessary for the system to work properly.
 

insight-out

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So few question in answer to your post bro.

1) Why Govt hasnt taken this up into the Parliament yet, whats stopping them?

2) Do you really this that any parliamentarian will object or raise his/her voice against this matter? They have to live in Pakistan, so obviously it would've been passed with no objection.

3) And hypnotically speaking, once it has been approved from the parliament then what option(s) would be left for Govt for not expelling France's ambassador from Pakistan? Anybody could see it coming, therefore Govt wanted to resolve it before it reaches to the dead end.
I just wanted to refute the claim that the government reneged on its promise to expel the French ambassador. That is not what they promised.

The fact is that the government is trying to handle the situation as best as it can, given the huge amount of constraints they are under. One wrong move, and the economy could tank. Inflation would really get out of hand, unemployment will go even higher, and any hopes of an economic recovery will vanish.

To answer your question, clearly the government thought they could convince a majority of the Parliament against severing diplomatic ties with France (and incur the wrath of the EU, and possibly other countries).

They believed they could successfully argue that the consequences of such a move would be far more harmful to those same ashiqin e rasool than any French ambassador sitting in Islamabad.

They wouldn't have signed the document, if they did not believe that they could get the majority of MNAs to agree with their position.
 

Mav3rick

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First of all matter shouldn't have get out of hands and get to the extent it went.

Govt fault is that they shouldn't have signed any kind of doc/contract whatsoever that they will kickout France's ambassador from the country. Govt should've contemplated about the repercussions ahead of signing any doc/contract.

On contrary, what TLP has done is not acceptable under any circumstance whatsoever. First and foremost, destroying your own country and hurting your own people wouldn't do any harm to France (ironically they must be laughing and saying look, we didnt had to do anything and they are burning and bring down then own country themselves - idiots).

Secondly, TLP and their supporters must understand that France is a very strong member of EU, which has 27 other member countries as well. And if you take action against one country, they all will come against you. You boycott one country, 27 counties will boycott you. Can Pakistan afford if 27 countries will start hurting Pakistan financially and economically? There are millions of Pakistani's living and working in those 27 countries, what are the odds they wouldn't start facing hardships as a reaction?

Thirdly, there are other Muslims countries from middle east, Turkey, Iran and Malaysia and Indonesia, have they dont the same - kickout France's ambassador from the country? Answer is no. Did anybody bothered to think even for a minute why? Its no brainer ...

Fourthly, TLP's actions have given a chance to our nemesis (India) to point fingers at us, start mud slinging at us and call us radical and start spread negative propaganda against Pakistan.

France's actions are intolerable, however, instead of committing senseless and thoughtless actions, it will make more sense if you raise voice against them at different forums and hit them financially via boycotting their product of all kinds.

My family has decided to abundance all their products which were using before i.e. Shampoo's and Perfume's etc - at least this is what we can do in our capacity. But what TLP has done is pure madness.
Very well explained.

It is all politics, religion is big politics ticket in Pakistan, India and other similar countries and big money because of which it is exploited by various state and non-state actors.
 

HAIDER

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I just wanted to refute the claim that the government reneged on its promise to expel the French ambassador. That is not what they promised.

The fact is that the government is trying to handle the situation as best as it can, given the huge amount of constraints they are under. One wrong move, and the economy could tank. Inflation would really get out of hand, unemployment will go even higher, and any hopes of an economic recovery will vanish.

To answer your question, clearly the government thought they could convince a majority of the Parliament against severing diplomatic ties with France (and incur the wrath of the EU, and possibly other countries).

They believed they could successfully argue that the consequences of such a move would be far more harmful to those same ashiqin e rasool than any French ambassador sitting in Islamabad.

They wouldn't have signed the document, if they did not believe that they could get the majority of MNAs to agree with their position.
Don't worry. EU recently increase the textile quota and export went up. Now all these acts will pushed the EU role back and those 380 fake anarchist accounts running from India will add fuel to the fire ... sorry bhai hamara quam he " CH" ha.. inka kuch nahi hosakta ... ... aaj PPP ka ex corrupt wazir Sharjeel Memon who found drunk outside London pubs, announce themselves ashiq e rasool .

..
 

insight-out

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Democracy does not work by the government sitting down with such illegal pressure groups. It only emboldens them and destroys due processes necessary for the system to work properly.
Right. In a perfect world, democracy should not work that way. But in real life, governments have to deal with all sorts of people and groups. Sometimes the greatest democracy in the world has to sit across the Taliban and negotiate. As for illegal pressure groups, unfortunately, the TLP is/was very much a legal political party.
 

Mav3rick

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If the government is censoring their side of the story, we cannot say exactly why they committed those actions. This is the key thing which every pro-government supporter seems to be missing. Let the media present their side of the story, and only then we will know the truth.

If I were to conjecture, I would say the government precipitated these riots by arresting their key leaders. The rioting is not for blasphemy, it is because draconian actions of the government. It is a conjecture, which can only be proven/disproven if TLP's side of the story is allowed.

It is a basic principle of rationality and fairness that in any dispute one listens to both parties. If the government is censoring the other side, that already shows us that the government is abusing its power and authority to suppress the opponent. If the government can descend to such lows, it can take other disgusting actions which may have led to these riots.
All terrorists have 'their' sides of the story and their own versions of events. But when riots and ransacking spills into the lives of common people, the Government has to step in and step in heavy. Half hearted measures are useless and lead to further insanity.

The leader of TLP was arrested to pre-empt their march towards the capital and expected dharna. We have listened to the unreasonable and illogical demands of TLP. Pakistan cannot survive in isolation but that is precisely what these fanatics want to drive us into. They want Pakistan to take up arms against the US, the EU and the entire world basically.
 

VCheng

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Right. In a perfect world, democracy should not work that way. But in real life, governments have to deal with all sorts of people and groups. Sometimes the greatest democracy in the world has to sit across the Taliban and negotiate. As for illegal pressure groups, unfortunately, the TLP is/was very much a legal political party.
LOL. As if a domestic terror group is any better for democracy than one across the world? :D
 

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