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PM Imran live address to the nation on banned TLP issue

Patriot forever

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No one is asking for war, but just expelling their ambassador,
That's my point, it will have no effect on them. They will just carry on doing it. To make a point either we have to be in a position to threaten them with consequences or our approach should be mature and reasonable enough to make them understand. (By making them understand means a solid argument with necessary coverage)

If collectively all Muslim countries table a resolution to prohibit blasphemy, it will have an impact like no other.
Pakistan alone sacking their ambassador is just for domestic audience, it will have no affect on France or for the anti blasphemy cause.
 

SQ8

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TLP demands are valid then?
Again - strawman arguments that seem to paint Muslim faith negative in general . The TLP goes beyond France to label every other act a blasphemous argument - the prophet’s actions were always relative to the situation and at no point did he tear down Medina to protest a Poet in Mecca. I can see you are making a lot of effort as a declared atheist to deride my religion, but unfortunately that is no different to any fascist who blanket condemn when convenient to their own cause.

Pinapples are great fruit, but if you happen to have them while pregnant and get unwell then want them eradicated without understanding the actual medical reasons why one reaction occurred or did not then essentially you’re just an ignorant idiot.
 

Constantin84

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I think we differ in the manner of approach.

In my opinion what IK said is on point. As an Islamic state if an incident is carried out it should be called out aloud. The incident in France was as a result of state of France hypocritic stance on insulting other religion in the name of freedom of expression, while they themselves curb such in case of holocaust. This hypocrisy had to highlighted for the whole world to see. His recent address made all the right ripples.

View attachment 736161

As a state we should move towards finding a permanent solution to this repetitive insults to our holy prophet P.B.U.H.

To be honest I would have supported TLP call, but the only reason I am not is because I know this will not stop this cycle of repetitive insults rather will fuel it further. Would have little to no impact on France but will affect us. There is no outcome to their approach. I support the cause and a rational productive approach to achieving that.

We must see who is using this incident for personal agendas and who is trying to have some form of agreement with the west regarding this issue. The points you raised regarding IK using it as a publicity stunt actually fits better on the likes of TLP, JUIF and PLMN (the munafiqeen). The likes of JUIF and TLP exist because of such incidents, the last thing they want is for it to end.

I do not agree with your rounding up this issue with France as focal point, last time it was some other country next time it can be someone else. Specifically like holocaust laws do not just exist in a few countries rather the whole west.

If Muslims countries unite they can present a resolution in general assembly demanding that, Like the Jews raised it globally.


The point has one flaw, the French at that time cared and trembled at the thought of going to war with the ottoman empire. They really don't give a **** if we expel their ambassador.

The Muslim is weak today because it is not united. See how the Arab world is pandering to Israel?
Actually, that is not true, nor that particular anecdote was true.The French would have easily defeated the Ottomans in those times (mid to end 19th century).More than that, the French were creditors and protectors of the Ottoman state against the Russians.Its just a silly story.
 
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Actually, that is not true, nor that particular anecdote was true.The French would have easily defeated the Ottomans in those times (mid to end 19th century).More than that, the French were creditors and protectors of the Ottoman state against the Russians.Its just a silly story.
True that! In an ironic twist of tale ... Goldschmidt clan, former inlaws of current Pakistani premier, were a major investor in Osmanli Bankasi. The then state Bank of Ottomans, started during the tenzimat period...
Interestingly similar things are afoot in todays Pakistan... The premier's former father in law was also a French politician with somewhat unique views on French primacy.... etc. etc.

Very convoluted, this...
 
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VCheng

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Well - before we do that one should look into our current nationality where extremists did influence the legislature and executive branch. The results of that are plain to see.
I see no parallels between the two if I understand what you are implying here, but let me wait for a detailed argument to the contrary first.
 

PakPrinciples

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These Pakistanis journalists wouldn't get a waitress job in the western countries.
Why do you think all those derange liberal lunatics are so adamant about running the country into the ground in order to maintain their presence in Pakistan?

They're largely losers that will end up with nothing abroad working at Walmart's or driving Uber or some other shit job of no importance to get by just look at Taha Siddiqui and Gul Bukhari.

Those who had some prominence like Husain Haqqani fare a bit better but like the rest their entire self worth literally comes from badmouthing Pakistan for a nation, the United States, that he attempted to sell our sovereignty to.

They are leeches on Pakistani society that's why they hate groups like the TLP that would throw them out and don't see them as our people rather a product of British colonialism.

It seems like that the Government going back to the policy of appeasement.
So the trash that have been leading this nation to ruin concede to the demands of the US, China, IMF, Saudi Arabia, WB and even India but apparently it's wrong for them to concede to the demands of the large majority of our own population?

Khan hosts Euro trash at ski resorts yet won't even talk to Pakistani's demanding the expulsion of a representative of a nation that would arrest our PM's own wife?

I get it, we're poor and weak from years of incompetence at the hands of parties like the PPP, PML-N, military rule under Musharraf and now the PTI but why pretend the kafir are friends? Maintain relations but make it clear that these groups are conspiring against us and our goal should be to industrialize and dominate not cooperate.

Do the losers you support even have a shred of self respect?

The Government should have crushed the troublemakers even if it meant indiscriminate use of assault weapons.
You still think TLP terrorists are right? They abducted police officers for God's sake.
So were you cheering on the police when they murdered PAT supporters in 2014 during the Model Town Massacre?

You're "praying for India" while advocating for the murder of Pakistanis?

Those days are over, there's no more tolerance for the murder of patriots by institutions lead by beggars and cowards who brainwash our own people, sell our own to be tortured abroad, sell our development to foreigners and then murder our people for fighting back against it.

Plan was to initiate another huge Dharna in Ramadan after 20 April deadline. Govt preempt this and foiled terrorist TLP plans. Hence all this crying and whining
How do you justify arrest of key leaders with rioting? Govt filed FIR against the leaders so arrests was legal. Were riots legal?
As far as I am aware the agreement was for Parliament to discuss the issue and vote on it, nothing more.

The problem seems to be that Khan and the PTI were reneging on the deal they made.

Why?

The arrest of Saad Rizvi was, by all legal analysts that I've come across, totally illegal otherwise what crime had Rizvi committed?

The protests hadn't even started at the point of Rizvi's arrest and the violence that ensued is the result of his illegal arrest. You had an angry group of patriots that were then attacked by an abusive police force and the TLP fought back.

Just because the government files an FIR doesn't make their actions legal if they violate the constitutional rights afforded to Saad Rizvi.

Are you going to pretend the police and rangers weren't murdering TLP supporters or committing other crimes and haven't used excessive force in the past like in the case of Sarfaraz Shah that resulted in the execution of 1 ranger and the imprisonment of a few others?

Police Vandalizing property:

Police assaulting good religious unarmed Muslim women:

You support that?

I appreciate Khan's attempts to cool tensions but the fact is that many of us are no longer tolerant of beggars, liars, cowards and/or thieves running Pakistan.

How many TLP protestors were murdered by the police that used firearms against a group of unarmed men? Men who, at most, wielded rocks and sticks the same sticks PTI protestors used to beat police in the past with:



Just like before terrorism cases were instigated against righteous, good Pakistani's fighting back against tyranny but even though the PTI wasn't banned when they were on the other side of this argument the PTI think they have a right to unjustifiably ban the TLP now?
Terrorism cases: Imran Khan submits response to police

Had Saad Rizvi been around to lead peaceful protests do you think they would have ended this way? Not as long as the police did not attack our people.

The TLP lived up to their side of any agreement they signed even deferred planned protests multiple times in the past to give the government more time it asked for.

Because PMLn and PPP won't support such extreme measures and don't want to take blame. Look at their interviews, no one is talking about expelling the French ambassador.
Have you seen parliamentary discussions on this?

Furthermore the PML-N opposes the ban on the TLP
Ban on TLP a violation of basic rights: opposition leaders

PML-N and JUI-F support the resolution to expel the ambassador:
PML-N, JUI-F to support resolution on French envoy’s expulsion

Despite what that traitor Billo Ranni has to say on the topic you have prominent members of the PPP calling for the expulsion of the French Ambassador:
PPP Leader Raja Pervez Asharf Says PM Should Expel French Ambassador Through Executive Order

Not sure what interviews you're reading.

How is PM Imran responsible for this cancer when it was born by Bhutto and bred by Zia?
Gen. Zia, the greatest military commander and leader since Jinnah, saves us from a two front war scenario and the morons you're advocating for assisted in the overthrow of an allied TTA that had been instrumental in cracking down on BLA terrorists all the while allowing the US to flood Afghanistan with guns that made their way to groups like the BLA while pedophile drug lords took control of the Afghan government.

I don't know what else needs to be said here.

Yeah this is not exactly Yehudi Hindu conspiracy as all problem making factions are radical Muslims
So the morons that oppose the TLP are now making up BS about how this was one grand conspiracy emanating from India.

Hizb ut-Tahrir, whose leadership is far more educated than our Senate/Parliament/military leadership, is banned because?

I guess I'm controlled by RAW too.

It was "radical Muslims" that signed the FTA with China and tore down protective tariffs that have decimated our industries while it was "radical Muslims" that sold our sovereignty, dignity and people off to the US in its "War of Terror" they've lost.

This isn't going to fly anymore.

Your assessment is absolutely correct. Days before this ruckus, military leadership met Khan and I am pretty sure they got the TLP banned because just weeks ago PTI and TLP were thinking of an electoral alliance in Karachi NA 249 election and in Punjab.
What's sad is that if the PTI had gotten the support of the TLP, whose popularity is ever increasing, they would have won a host of other seats across the country such as NA-117, NA-123, NA-73, etc...

Likewise PML-N can benefit from an alliance with the TLP and could have won NA-188, NA-66, NA-67, etc...

Personally to me the TLP represents the future of Pakistani politics, the beginning of a true Islamic Nationalist party I've been waiting for producing some amazing patriots from within its ranks and support base like future PM hopefuls such as Shaheer Sialvi.

I personally stopped supporting the PTI in 2017 but I have and will continue to stand with patriots some who may still believe in the party but I think it's time for those of us who love our nation, love our culture and don't believe in being prostitutes that sells our nations dignity, economy and people to foreigners or making room for anti-Pakistan communists and whores to start voting for parties like the TLP and stop being swayed by BS from those people that only pay lip service to our nation.
 

HAIDER

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Why do you think all those derange liberal lunatics are so adamant about running the country into the ground in order to maintain their presence in Pakistan?

They're largely losers that will end up with nothing abroad working at Walmart's or driving Uber or some other shit job of no importance to get by just look at Taha Siddiqui and Gul Bukhari.

Those who had some prominence like Husain Haqqani fare a bit better but like the rest their entire self worth literally comes from badmouthing Pakistan for a nation, the United States, that he attempted to sell our sovereignty to.

They are leeches on Pakistani society that's why they hate groups like the TLP that would throw them out and don't see them as our people rather a product of British colonialism.



So the trash that have been leading this nation to ruin concede to the demands of the US, China, IMF, Saudi Arabia, WB and even India but apparently it's wrong for them to concede to the demands of the large majority of our own population?

Khan hosts Euro trash at ski resorts yet won't even talk to Pakistani's demanding the expulsion of a representative of a nation that would arrest our PM's own wife?

I get it, we're poor and weak from years of incompetence at the hands of parties like the PPP, PML-N, military rule under Musharraf and now the PTI but why pretend the kafir are friends? Maintain relations but make it clear that these groups are conspiring against us and our goal should be to industrialize and dominate not cooperate.

Do the losers you support even have a shred of self respect?





So were you cheering on the police when they murdered PAT supporters in 2014 during the Model Town Massacre?

You're "praying for India" while advocating for the murder of Pakistanis?

Those days are over, there's no more tolerance for the murder of patriots by institutions lead by beggars and cowards who brainwash our own people, sell our own to be tortured abroad, sell our development to foreigners and then murder our people for fighting back against it.





As far as I am aware the agreement was for Parliament to discuss the issue and vote on it, nothing more.

The problem seems to be that Khan and the PTI were reneging on the deal they made.

Why?

The arrest of Saad Rizvi was, by all legal analysts that I've come across, totally illegal otherwise what crime had Rizvi committed?

The protests hadn't even started at the point of Rizvi's arrest and the violence that ensued is the result of his illegal arrest. You had an angry group of patriots that were then attacked by an abusive police force and the TLP fought back.

Just because the government files an FIR doesn't make their actions legal if they violate the constitutional rights afforded to Saad Rizvi.

Are you going to pretend the police and rangers weren't murdering TLP supporters or committing other crimes and haven't used excessive force in the past like in the case of Sarfaraz Shah that resulted in the execution of 1 ranger and the imprisonment of a few others?

Police Vandalizing property:

Police assaulting good religious unarmed Muslim women:

You support that?

I appreciate Khan's attempts to cool tensions but the fact is that many of us are no longer tolerant of beggars, liars, cowards and/or thieves running Pakistan.

How many TLP protestors were murdered by the police that used firearms against a group of unarmed men? Men who, at most, wielded rocks and sticks the same sticks PTI protestors used to beat police in the past with:



Just like before terrorism cases were instigated against righteous, good Pakistani's fighting back against tyranny but even though the PTI wasn't banned when they were on the other side of this argument the PTI think they have a right to unjustifiably ban the TLP now?
Terrorism cases: Imran Khan submits response to police

Had Saad Rizvi been around to lead peaceful protests do you think they would have ended this way? Not as long as the police did not attack our people.

The TLP lived up to their side of any agreement they signed even deferred planned protests multiple times in the past to give the government more time it asked for.



Have you seen parliamentary discussions on this?

Furthermore the PML-N opposes the ban on the TLP
Ban on TLP a violation of basic rights: opposition leaders

PML-N and JUI-F support the resolution to expel the ambassador:
PML-N, JUI-F to support resolution on French envoy’s expulsion

Despite what that traitor Billo Ranni has to say on the topic you have prominent members of the PPP calling for the expulsion of the French Ambassador:
PPP Leader Raja Pervez Asharf Says PM Should Expel French Ambassador Through Executive Order

Not sure what interviews you're reading.



Gen. Zia, the greatest military commander and leader since Jinnah, saves us from a two front war scenario and the morons you're advocating for assisted in the overthrow of an allied TTA that had been instrumental in cracking down on BLA terrorists all the while allowing the US to flood Afghanistan with guns that made their way to groups like the BLA while pedophile drug lords took control of the Afghan government.

I don't know what else needs to be said here.



So the morons that oppose the TLP are now making up BS about how this was one grand conspiracy emanating from India.

Hizb ut-Tahrir, whose leadership is far more educated than our Senate/Parliament/military leadership, is banned because?

I guess I'm controlled by RAW too.

It was "radical Muslims" that signed the FTA with China and tore down protective tariffs that have decimated our industries while it was "radical Muslims" that sold our sovereignty, dignity and people off to the US in its "War of Terror" they've lost.

This isn't going to fly anymore.



What's sad is that if the PTI had gotten the support of the TLP, whose popularity is ever increasing, they would have won a host of other seats across the country such as NA-117, NA-123, NA-73, etc...

Likewise PML-N can benefit from an alliance with the TLP and could have won NA-188, NA-66, NA-67, etc...

Personally to me the TLP represents the future of Pakistani politics, the beginning of a true Islamic Nationalist party I've been waiting for producing some amazing patriots from within its ranks and support base like future PM hopefuls such as Shaheer Sialvi.

I personally stopped supporting the PTI in 2017 but I have and will continue to stand with patriots some who may still believe in the party but I think it's time for those of us who love our nation, love our culture and don't believe in being prostitutes that sells our nations dignity, economy and people to foreigners or making room for anti-Pakistan communists and whores to start voting for parties like the TLP and stop being swayed by BS from those people that only pay lip service to our nation.
They doing only lip service. Follow today's parliament session. Did anyone of them pass any resolution to force the govt to expel.................. No, they didn't. If PMLn vote to pass this resolution, then Nawaz will be expelled from UK.
 

Kaleem.61

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There is nothing more important than Final Prophet Muhammad saw. Even the money they borrow on interest. If we can survive by fighting against Allah(Interest) swt then we can survie in front of france.

Here we are opposing Quran (means Allah) by paying interest and making non-Muslims friend as crucial that we can bear any kind of Blasphemy by them.

First and foremost, destroying your own country and hurting your own people wouldn't do any harm to France
Well said. One can get the point how it started.
Govt. arrested the current TLP leader caused the protest. Then some parties jumped in to make things worse.
Like a pmln counselor captured by camera.

Fourthly, TLP's actions have given a chance to our nemesis (India) to point fingers at us, start mud slinging at us and call us radical and start spread negative propaganda against Pakistan.
Killing for beef is somewhere more worst, they need to fix themselves first.

TLP is the one who broke the promise by inciting violence by taking the matter into thier own hands
So waiting the for the deadline is violence or Arresting the leader? Reality is not what you want us to believe.

do you think they will tell you they killed police personnel, they abducted police officers ?
Can you prove it? Please!
 

VCheng

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I see no parallels between the two if I understand what you are implying here, but let me wait for a detailed argument to the contrary first.
Silence. :D

from: https://www.economist.com/asia/2021...tremists-are-holding-the-government-to-ransom


"The concession is the latest of many. For decades the state has fostered the radical ideology that spawned groups like the TLP, then mobilised them as political weapons. When TLP crowds brought Islamabad to a standstill in 2017 in protest against changes to an oath made by MPs, a senior military man was filmed handing them envelopes of money. It is little surprise that, when confronted by religious radicals, the authorities struggle to face them down."
 
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El Sidd

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no this is not true.

I am trying to understand how is it fair or OK to kill someone, if someone make fun of god or his prophets.
How many honor killings reported from Pakistan last month?
That's my point, it will have no effect on them. They will just carry on doing it. To make a point either we have to be in a position to threaten them with consequences or our approach should be mature and reasonable enough to make them understand. (By making them understand means a solid argument with necessary coverage)

If collectively all Muslim countries table a resolution to prohibit blasphemy, it will have an impact like no other.
Pakistan alone sacking their ambassador is just for domestic audience, it will have no affect on France or for the anti blasphemy cause.
So you want to conquer France once you have the guarantee of material wealth? Because afterall Faith requires Money, right?

Hope that 13 percent interest rate makes you rich enough so you can take on France afterall this seems to be the argument that they will kick the Ambassador out once GoP is rich.

Simply put. Laxmi triumphs over Ishq
 

truthfollower

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How many honor killings reported from Pakistan last month?


So you want to conquer France once you have the guarantee of material wealth? Because afterall Faith requires Money, right?

Hope that 13 percent interest rate makes you rich enough so you can take on France afterall this seems to be the argument that they will kick the Ambassador out once GoP is rich.

Simply put. Laxmi triumphs over Ishq
you are back
 

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