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Plausible Turk-Pak Hybrid Presence Inside Afghanistan

jus_chillin

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Punjabi Muslims fought the Sikhs under of Punjabi leaders like Adina Beg and Rai Ahmed Kharral. We suffered the brunt of Sikh opression. During partition, many of us fought and voted for Pakistan and ended up losing our lives over it when the Sikhs mounted an ethnic cleansing campaign in East Punjab. We spent the next 70 years either fighting or maintaining detente with India. There was never any Sikh/Punjabi brotherhood in those 70 years.

In this time, Awghans bent over for the British, Russians, Americans and Indians like the munafiq Harami quam they are. Despite Pakistan taking and sheltering millions of what are literally pests who offer zero positive value to the country for decades now, nothing drives the Awghan into a greater fit of rage than seeing a Sikh go on a month long pilgrimage, which was hardly ever possible before.
Ignore him. He's a PTM/PKMAP retard.
Punjabi Muslims fought the Sikhs under of Punjabi leaders like Adina Beg and Rai Ahmed Kharral. We suffered the brunt of Sikh opression. During partition, many of us fought and voted for Pakistan and ended up losing our lives over it when the Sikhs mounted an ethnic cleansing campaign in East Punjab. We spent the next 70 years either fighting or maintaining detente with India. There was never any Sikh/Punjabi brotherhood in those 70 years.

In this time, Awghans bent over for the British, Russians, Americans and Indians like the munafiq Harami quam they are. Despite Pakistan taking and sheltering millions of what are literally pests who offer zero positive value to the country for decades now, nothing drives the Awghan into a greater fit of rage than seeing a Sikh go on a month long pilgrimage, which was hardly ever possible before.
Don't forget Sikh establishment and Afghan establishment sided with British in 1857!
 

jus_chillin

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Wether they got in to any fights or not is irrelevant, joint enterprise is the word, they came in collusion with others.

No Afghan is against Pak, it's the other way around, people seeking strategic depth, keeping Afghanistan unstable to meet their own agenda & interest.

We the people of kpk & Balochistan will like to see an independent Afghanistan a strong and stable Afghanistan.

Finish them off you say, don't worry the experiment hasn't worked well on us so I doubt it will have much affect on them too.
Really? Funding proxies and voting against us in UN in 1947 surely means they love us right? Remember how they tried to invade KPK in 1961?

I don't think its only Lar Pashtana or Balochan that think that. All Pakistanis would want a stable Afghanistan as long as its not hostile to Pakistan. Considering current political climate its impossible. Farsiwan like Amrullah Saleh aren't gonna go away.
 

Hiptullha

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I don't think its only Lar Pashtana
Lar aw bars don't want a stable Afghanistan. Last year Afghanistan had an election and when it turned out that non Pathan had been voted in by a majority of participants, they started protesting in favor of a non-democratic imposition. I think some our resident peace activists even went across the border to threaten non Pathans with an invasion and genocide for voting incorrectly. "Stable and independent Afghanistan" lmao

What they want is an Afghanistan where their kind dominate and force their tribal culture down everyone's throats.
 
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Some points to ponder based on the discussion from Mete Yarar, a Turkish defense and political analyst, and my inputs:
  • Afghanistan isn't the name of just another country. According to Brzezinski (the US architect of the USSR's fall serviced via Af-Pak), whoever controls Afghanistan controls the world
  • Kemal Pasha took an especial interest on Afghanistan (no Pak at that time) even though Turkey was war-torn with virtually zero resources
  • Afghanistan is too valuable to leave to the whims of the inexperienced Taliban, who aren't exactly in the best terms with the moderate Afghans. It's the recipe of further foreign-engineered turmoil with huge fallouts onto Pak
  • A Turk-Pak "hybrid" presence inside Afghanistan - completely independent of any other powers in the world - can quench the qualms of the warring parties to some extent. Here, the "hybrid" presence means almost invisible behind-the-scene actions with not the nose of a single Pak or Turkish folk bleeding
  • Such a presence can balance the other "presences". Flowers filled with honey attract the bees
  • Pak and Turkey have got everything to benefit from it with little risk. There's no "free lunch" in this Dunya! As for the "free lunch" in the Ahiret, it needs to be earned while being in this Dunya
  • Etc.


The man with ponytail looks like Triple H from WWE.
 

HRK

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Goal is to unify Pakistan and Afghanistan into one country.
Goal should be to unify Pakistan and Afghanistan into "one ECONOMY".
  • A Turk-Pak "hybrid" presence inside Afghanistan - completely independent of any other powers in the world - can quench the qualms of the warring parties to some extent. Here, the "hybrid" presence means almost invisible behind-the-scene actions with not the nose of a single Pak or Turkish folk bleeding
My dear brother you need to see the situation from the POV of Afghan Taliban's position and for this you need to answer 2 basic questions

Is Turkey still part of NATO .... ??

Why Turkey want its 'initial' presence on Afghan Soil (Airport) .... ???


Both of this questions must be analysed from Afghan Taliban's POV

Now for the first question

Turkey is "part of NATO forces still present in Afghanistan", so even if all other foreign forces leave Afghanistan but

- The presence of Turkey in Afghanistan would be considered as "Presence of NATO" in Afghanistan

- This actually defeat the very basic principal of Second Taliban Movement which is more Nationalistic than Theocratic

So my dear do you want Afghan Taliban to accept their Political Defeat at the Negotiation Table while Winning the Battle on the ground ..... ???

Do you think Afghan Taliban are that naive .... ???

Now the second question

Why Turkey is interested in the security of Kabul Airport ..... ???

and a secondary question related to second question stated above

What interest Turkey have in Kabul airport .... ???

As per Taliban Kabul is under a puppet regime installed to rule over Afghanistan, they have not till date initiated Dialogue with Afghan Regime for Political Future of Afghanistan.

So by the presence of Foreign Forces at Kabul Airport is an indirect support to that Foreign Regime, which mean when the time come Foreign Force could again gather in Kabul or at least could use Kabul Airport for Operations in Support of Puppet Ghani Regime and not only this by having Kabul Airport under the effective control of "NATO" force US does not need any other Military Base in region.

Which eventually mean the continuation of war in Afghanistan and in that supposed situation Afghan Taliban would not have enemy (US and NATO forces other than Turkish Forces) on the ground in Afghanistan to respond, so in that case they either have to attack NATO forces Present at Kabul Airport (again read Turkish Forces) or have to plan attack on American Soil


Keep in mind in all 20 years of war in Afghanistan, Afghan Taliban have NOT DIRECTLY ATTACKED on Turkish Soldiers but do you or Turkish state want this thing to happen .... ???

I believe No, neither Taliban want this and their 20 years track record of Afghan war is available to back this, and if they keep practising this in future as well then they would be left with no choice other than planning and executing attacks on American Soil which will give America excuse to return back to Afghanistan.

And NO REGIONAL and Neighbouring Country of Afghanistan want this to happen.

I hope you and Turkish state understand the political compulsions Taliban would face because of a WRONG DECISION by Turkey.

What Turkey could do to avoid the situation is to withdraw its forces now but keep its channel of communication with Taliban open for mutual economic benefits in future.
 
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jus_chillin

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Lar aw bars don't want a stable Afghanistan. Last year Afghanistan had an election and when it turned out that non Pathan had been voted in by a majority of participants, they started protesting in favor of a non-democratic imposition. I think some our resident peace activists even went across the border to threaten non Pathans with an invasion and genocide for voting incorrectly. "Stable and independent Afghanistan" lmao

What they want is an Afghanistan where their kind dominate and force their tribal culture down everyone's throats.
Lar Pashtana is just another term for Pakistani Pashtuns. I was responding to the other guy who said only KPK and Balochistan want to see a propserous Afghanistan.

Lar O Bar crowd really has 0 goals. Some of them want "Pashtunistan", some of them want KPK to be under Afghan control. Some of them claim Balochistan too, I've seen others claim Kashmir too. No concrete policy goals.

Afghans are extremely racist towards each other. I think through education that place can be saved, but for one that will take like about 3 generations for it to be put into effect.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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Goal should be to unify Pakistan and Afghanistan into "one ECONOMY".

My dear brother you need to see the situation from POV from the Afghan Taliban's position and for this you need to answer 2 basic questions

Is Turkey still part of NATO .... ??

Why Turkey want it 'initial' presence on Afghan Soil (Airport) .... ???

Both of this question must be analysed from Afghan Taliban POV

Now for the for the first question

Turkey is "still part of NATO forces still present in Afghanistan", so the even if all other foreign forces leave Afghanistan but
- The presence of Turkey in Afghanistan would be considered as "Presence of NATO" in Afghanistan

- This is actually defeat the very basic principal of Second Taliban Movement which is more Nationalistic than Theocratic

So my dear do you want Afghan Taliban to accept their Political Defeat at the Negotiation Table while Winning the Battle on the ground ..... ???

Do you think Afghan Taliban are that naive .... ???

Now the second question

Why Turkey is interested in the security of Kabul Airport ..... ???

and a secondary question related to second question stated above What interest Turkey have in Kabul airport .... ???

As per Taliban Kabul is under a puppet regime installed to rule over Afghanistan, they have not till date initiated Dialogue with Afghan Regime for Political Future of Afghanistan.

So by the presence of Foreign Forces at Kabul Airport is an indirect support to that Foreign Regime, which mean when the time come Foreign Force could again gather in Kabul or at least could use Kabul Airport for Operations in Support of Puppet Government, not only this and by having Kabul Airport under the effective control of "NATO" force US does not need any other Military Base in region.

Which eventually mean the continuation of war in Afghanistan and in that supposed situation Afghan Taliban would not have enemy (US and NATO forces other than Turkish Forces) on the ground in Afghanistan to respond, so in that case they either have to attack NATO forces Present at Kabul Airport (again read Turkish Forces) or have to plan attack on American Soil


Keep in mind in all 20 years of war in Afghan Taliban have NOT DIRECTLY ATTACKED on Turkish Soldiers but do you or Turkish state want this thing to happen .... ???

I believe No, neither Taliban want this and their 20 year track record of Afghan war is available to back this, and if they keep practising this in future as well then they would be left with no choice other than planning and executing attacks on American Soils which will give America excuse to return back to Afghanistan.

And NO REGIONAL and Neighbouring Country of Afghanistan want this to happen.

I hope you and Turkish state understand the political compulsions Taliban would face because of a WRONG DECISION by Turkey.

What Turkey could do to avoid the situation is to withdraw its forces now but keep its channel of communication with Taliban open for mutual economic benefits in future.
Good points...

The Turkish intelligentsia is in no doubt about the capability of the Taliban in Afghanistan! Hence, they also don't want to stay in the current form against the objections from the Taliban, and, interestingly, Russia....

 

CrazyZ

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What Turkey could do to avoid the situation is to withdraw its forces now but keep its channel of communication with Taliban open for mutual economic benefits in future.
This is the best path forward for Turkey. Better to let Afghan factions sort out their internal conflicts on their own then get involved on the ground. This is a lesson that both the Soviets and Americans learned far too late. The Taliban are a significant force inside Afghanistan and the faction that is most willing to stitch the region together and integrate economically with the MENA bloc. Best for Pakistan and Turkey to work with them.
 

mingle

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Good points...

The Turkish intelligentsia is in no doubt about the capability of the Taliban in Afghanistan! Hence, they also don't want to stay in the current form against the objections from the Taliban, and, interestingly, Russia....

TURKEY just stay away from internal infght of Afghanistan who wins who loose jut keep himself to airport security I believe is workable
 

Muhammed45

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Turkey is a NATO member. They will act according to interests of NATO, besides Turkey needs US Permission. As we know very well, NATO is an extension of the US Army.
 

khansaheeb

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Goal should be to unify Pakistan and Afghanistan into "one ECONOMY".

My dear brother you need to see the situation from the POV of Afghan Taliban's position and for this you need to answer 2 basic questions

Is Turkey still part of NATO .... ??

Why Turkey want its 'initial' presence on Afghan Soil (Airport) .... ???


Both of this questions must be analysed from Afghan Taliban's POV

Now for the first question

Turkey is "part of NATO forces still present in Afghanistan", so even if all other foreign forces leave Afghanistan but

- The presence of Turkey in Afghanistan would be considered as "Presence of NATO" in Afghanistan

- This actually defeat the very basic principal of Second Taliban Movement which is more Nationalistic than Theocratic

So my dear do you want Afghan Taliban to accept their Political Defeat at the Negotiation Table while Winning the Battle on the ground ..... ???

Do you think Afghan Taliban are that naive .... ???

Now the second question

Why Turkey is interested in the security of Kabul Airport ..... ???

and a secondary question related to second question stated above

What interest Turkey have in Kabul airport .... ???

As per Taliban Kabul is under a puppet regime installed to rule over Afghanistan, they have not till date initiated Dialogue with Afghan Regime for Political Future of Afghanistan.

So by the presence of Foreign Forces at Kabul Airport is an indirect support to that Foreign Regime, which mean when the time come Foreign Force could again gather in Kabul or at least could use Kabul Airport for Operations in Support of Puppet Ghani Regime and not only this by having Kabul Airport under the effective control of "NATO" force US does not need any other Military Base in region.

Which eventually mean the continuation of war in Afghanistan and in that supposed situation Afghan Taliban would not have enemy (US and NATO forces other than Turkish Forces) on the ground in Afghanistan to respond, so in that case they either have to attack NATO forces Present at Kabul Airport (again read Turkish Forces) or have to plan attack on American Soil


Keep in mind in all 20 years of war in Afghanistan, Afghan Taliban have NOT DIRECTLY ATTACKED on Turkish Soldiers but do you or Turkish state want this thing to happen .... ???

I believe No, neither Taliban want this and their 20 years track record of Afghan war is available to back this, and if they keep practising this in future as well then they would be left with no choice other than planning and executing attacks on American Soil which will give America excuse to return back to Afghanistan.

And NO REGIONAL and Neighbouring Country of Afghanistan want this to happen.

I hope you and Turkish state understand the political compulsions Taliban would face because of a WRONG DECISION by Turkey.

What Turkey could do to avoid the situation is to withdraw its forces now but keep its channel of communication with Taliban open for mutual economic benefits in future.
That's the funniest thing I ever heard-" they would be left with no choice other than planning and executing attacks on American Soil which will give America excuse to return back to Afghanistan. "

US can't get out quick enough. Afghanistan is like a blackhole for US Dollars. No matter how much money you put in nothing comes out and the money disappears never to be seen again. After $2 Trillions and countless dead, Millions of Americans living on the streets, Afghanistan is the same poor country of honourable goat herders full of Tribal rivalry and blood thirsty schemers same as pre 2001. As for the Taliban they fear no one and anyone who crosses their path end up in the economic grave. They defeated two superpowers consecutively : the Soviet Union and the US and NATO, perhaps the greatest achievement in the history of warfare and mankind. Waves of B1, B2 , B52,F14, F18, F15s, F16s, F22s A10s, AC130s,Tornadoes, Eurofighters, Apaches etc. without mercy pounded them day and night causing so many tragic loss of lives that the US and NATO forces stopped counting how many they killed. Civilians were brutally killed and tortured , Afghans carried the bodies of their mutilated children in their hands to bury them ; traumatised children filled the mental wards of hospitals and the foreign agencies gasped in disbelief.

The world has been taught a simple lesson: simple people with strong spirits of freedom cannot be defeated no matter how much blood of theirs color the battle fields. 5 prayers a day and an unwavering belief in the Almighty is all it took.
 
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blueazure

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last time i checked, turkey had a hard time controlling a few hills in northern syria ,

!
 

HRK

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That's the funniest thing I ever heard
In that case I would advise you to plz develop your taste in humour bit more .... ;););)
Afghanistan is like a blackhole for US Dollars.
but the both ends of that black hole open within US and fuel the war economy of the USA, so Afghan war is not an Economic loss to US
Afghanistan is the same poor country
& US had no agenda to make Afghanistan an economically develop and prosperous country
They defeated two superpowers consecutively : the Soviet Union and the US and NATO, perhaps the greatest achievement in the history of warfare and mankind.
with a price tag of millions Afghan killed since 1979 and lost of generation after generations .... what they achieved is commendable and noteworthy but why my dear you are not counting the price generation after generation Afghans have paid and it s not only Afghan we Pakistanis also have suffered a lot because of Afghanistan since 1979 ..... why are you forgetting this .... ???

My dear we have to minimise the prospects of our loses as well in any future scenario related to Afghanistan, a perpetually disturb and unstable Afghanistan is not in Pakistan's National Interest.

5 prayers a day and an unwavering belief in the Almighty is all it took.
Bhai Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ne Momin ki Farasat se daraya hai us ki Ibadat se Nahi .... so plz rather to think emotionally I would ask you think pragmatically.

Even after saying all of this at the end I will say that you are entitled to your opinion, so AM I
 

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