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Philosophical debates and logic puzzles

XenoEnsi-14

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The next week, the executioner knocks on the prisoner's door at noon on Wednesday — which, despite all the above, will still be an utter surprise to him. Everything the judge said has come true.
The prisoner expected it not to happen, and the executioner expected him to not think it would happen by telling him it would be a surprise. So when the executioner knocked on the door the prisoner was surprised.
There are machines that can touch, smell, hear, see and think... In that respect we are no different. Some can learn to, this is called deep learning, perhaps some would answer this question with the "soul" argument, I'm not religious so tend no to.

Is human thought not code? Logical constructs that bring order to our action, like code in a computer program? Perhaps there are no humans? Only machines.

As for reproduction... What of robots that can build other robots?
Humans are biological machines, robots are artificial machines. Anyway we try and make an AI it will be based on our understanding of how we work, but how do we know when we will understand ourselves enough to make a true AI and not something we think is an AI.

Other robots that can build other robots because they are programmed to, not because they choose to.
 

XenoEnsi-14

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describe to me a color you've never seen before.
It's blue and yellow at the same time and it's not a mix of blue and yellow, it's not a shade of green, yellow, blue, or any color or absence of color known. It's beauty is unmatched so alien, both vibrant and illuminating and once you see it you never want to loose it, but you will and it will call for you until the end of time until madness consumes you.
 

Jungibaaz

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I am guessing we have to begin by making atleast one assumption, I dont see anyother way this puzzle can be solved because there're too many missing links.. And your guess was right on spot. You 're smart Jungibhai !!! :-)
No, no assumptions. There was definitely a reason for everything. The only part of the process that wasn't so pretty was getting to sort houses 3-5 right at the end where I tried differrent configurations (ie trial and error, the classic scientific method ;)). And thanks for the kind words, but truly I am not smart. Not by a long shot. :)

Perhaps I'll do this again tomorrow and take appropriate screenshots so that I can explain the steps better for all members.
 

SvenSvensonov

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It's blue and yellow at the same time and it's not a mix of blue and yellow, it's not a shade of green, yellow, blue, or any color or absence of color known. It's beauty is unmatched so alien, both vibrant and illuminating and once you see it you never want to loose it, but you will and it will call for you until the end of time until madness consumes you.
That'll work, but it isn't unheard of:

18lsql2arx87ppng.png


This box will replicate that effect if stated at long enough.

Here's a great link on "impossible colors"

Train yourself to see impossible colors
 

Developereo

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Will this become a new form of eugenics that sees people alter themselves to match certain human phenotypes and conditions, ultimately leading to a more perfect being - at least in their own eyes?
Thanks for a great thread.

This comment of yours touches upon something I wrote a while back on this forum. I feel that the human race will self-destruct, not through climate change or nuclear war, but by genetic tampering.

It will start innocently enough -- a preemptive cure for this, a cure for that -- and media coverage will focus on the innocent child whose life is being saved. Over time, once the public gets used to adjusting babies' genes at early stages, the next step would be to offer optional enhancements to paying customers. No parent would deny such enhancements to their child -- what parent would deny a premium education to their child? -- since such denial would be tantamount to sentencing their child to second-tier status compared to their peers.

So we will initially have an elite super-class of genetically enhanced individuals. After a while, social democracy will take over and such genetic enhancements will be made available to the general public -- at least in rich countries. Intermarriage and heredity will spread the genetic changes further within the population. So we will have entire groups of people with genetic enhancements v/s the "natural" humans in the poor world. Social democracy will then go a step further and provide such enhancements even to the poor countries.

The progression I am describing above would mirror the historical trends for disbursement of medicines around the world. Eventually, most of the world population would have some level of artificial genetics.

Then comes the punchline -- unforeseen side effects.

We are still very much in the dark about the interrelationships between various genetic blocks. We understand some of it and make use of it, but there's a lot more we don't know and I expect our genetic tampering will do us in, or change us in a way that would make the new "human" unrecognizable to us.

Do we feel any kinship with the bonobo?
Will the superhumans retain any emotional bond to us, the natural humans?
 

XenoEnsi-14

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would you care to describe the taste of salt next? Without using salt, salty or any other variation. Should you satisfy both of these (or not care to), I can ratchet up the intensity of my next challenge.
Salt tastes like a weak 9 volt battery with a slight drying and barely noticeable bitterness.

Will this become a new form of eugenics that sees people alter themselves to match certain human phenotypes and conditions, ultimately leading to a more perfect being - at least in their own eyes? I can't help but be reminded of early eugenics tries with selective breeding and to me this isn't too much more different.
Hmmm, I'm favor of only natural / biological eugenics and must be voluntary to create Homo Sapiens Solis which will eventually evolve into Homo Solis a sapient space traveling and world building race.
 

SvenSvensonov

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Hmmm, I'm favor of only natural / biological eugenics and must be voluntary to create Homo Sapiens Solis which will eventually evolve into Homo Solis a sapient space traveling and world building race.
Biology and the natural progression of species takes a long time, with the exception of bacteria and virus which undergo mutations on a shorter time scale. Do we simply leave ourselves alone? Never should we strive for a smarter, healthier, but smaller population? I'm the opposite of your stance, I would like to see humans change radically, mutate though the increased usage of machines.

Perhaps there will come a time when we must change. Runaway climate change, leading to increased heat and increased cold, less food and dying animals, more frequent and dangerous weather patterns and humans being as unreliable and unready as always.

Perhaps it isn't the best scenario to illustrate why we need to change, but there may come a time when we humans, in our current form, just aren't good enough. No matter how smart we are, we can always be better. All species undergo changes to adapt to a changing world, we've largely lost this function. Maybe it's time for an artificial solution?
 

XenoEnsi-14

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Biology and the natural progression of species takes a long time, with the exception of bacteria and virus which undergo mutations on a shorter time scale. Do we simply leave ourselves alone? Never should we strive for a smarter, healthier, but smaller population? I'm the opposite of your stance, I would like to see humans change radically, mutate though the increased usage of machines.
Artificial selection, as in dogs through natural breeding and reduced inbreeding to a safer level. It might take longer but we could at least have more control of what mutations to select for the next generation and better understanding of potentially lethal mutations that we might miss during a faster and more radical change through mutations by machines, not only that but you would have to rely on machine tech.
 

k_arura

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Hey everyone, as has been talked about by @Nihonjin1051 and @Jungibaaz (albeit from a hypothetical standpoint), I'm starting this thread to promote philosophical debates and logical thinking. I feel this is something that can improve the quality of contributions here on PDF... which is at times devoid of rational thought. I invite anyone to participate, but please keep the conversations relevant. Also, I'll start things off with a few logic puzzles. Feel free to offer your own discussions, puzzles and solutions!!!

The goal here isn't to unravel any great mysteries, it's to think more in depth and get a bit more brain excersise then usual. And remember - there is no right or wrong answer, no smart or stupid question, trying is all I ask!

Enjoy!!!

SvenSvensonov

MILK JUGS:

A milkman has two empty jugs: a three gallon jug and a five gallon jug. How can he measure exactly one gallon without wasting any milk?

TRUE STATEMENTS:

A. The number of false statements here is one.

B. The number of false statements here is two.

C. The number of false statements here is three.

D. The number of false statements here is four.

Which of the above statements is true?

LOGIC POEM:

The following verse spells out a word, letter by letter. "My first" refers to the word's first letter, and so on. What's the word that this verse describes?

My first is in fish but not in snail
My second in rabbit but not in tail
My third in up but not down
My fourth in tiara not in crown
My fifth in tree you plainly see
My whole a food for you and me

THREE BOXES:

There are three boxes, one contains only apples, one contains only oranges, and one contains both apples and oranges. The boxes have been incorrectly labeled such that no label identifies the actual contents of the box it labels. Opening just one box, and without looking in the box, you take out one piece of fruit. By looking at the fruit, how can you immediately label all of the boxes correctly.

Which box did you open and how can you be sure to label all boxes correctly

BURNING ROPES:

A rope burns non-uniformly for exactly one hour. How do you measure 45 minutes, given two such ropes?

FOUR DIGIT NUMBER:

What is the four-digit number in which the first digit is one-third the second, the third is the sum of the first and second, and the last is three times the second?

@Nihonjin1051 I'm game for a philosophical debate, assuming it doesn't relate to anything political.

Actually, I've got an early topic that relates to my job. Over the Christmas period, when I tried to quit PDF, I got both a raise, increased stress and increased responsibilities, my increased responsibilities relate to the military usage of cybernetics - mechanical human parts (sorry, can't go too much further than that:(). My question to you is this, 1.) do you consider this ethical? 2.) At what point do we cease to be human? 3.) Will this become a new form of eugenics that sees people alter themselves to match certain human phenotypes and conditions, ultimately leading to a more perfect being - at least in their own eyes? I can't help but be reminded of early eugenics tries with selective breeding and to me this isn't too much more different.

Also, what does the ability to prolong our lives contribute to the trajectory of human populations? Do we begin to thin out our poor, those who can't afford such modification and opt for a more healthy, but smaller and longer living population? What about the impact of prolonged human live's on our worlds resources?

@Nihonjin1051 - thoughts or topics (if this one doesn't interest you, or anyone else, or you have limited expertise and can't contribute with enough quality... I have plenty of subjects like that and like plenty of other subjects that I would be willing to debate)?

@Armstrong @levina @Chinese-Dragon - and anyone else interested in such debates!
Fill 3g jug (3gj) and pour it in 5g jug (5gj). Do it again. You now have 1g left in 3gj.

That assumes there will be anything to quantify. Perhaps nothing will be the reality, existing outside of any time or space, considering our hypothetical question assumed on one universe we are dealing with only one time and space, one set of laws to govern it.

But accepting you answer, we arrive at our next question:

8. What are numbers?

Do numbers actually exist? Are they merely clever heuristics to allow us to better organize ourselves, or is there encoded, natural numbers in our surroundings? Perhaps as if our universe was one big holographic simulation, all things being code
.
Numbers are a human artifice, a concept. Existence or non-existence is a meaningless question.
 

XenoEnsi-14

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Perhaps it isn't the best scenario to illustrate why we need to change, but there may come a time when we humans, in our current form, just aren't good enough. No matter how smart we are, we can always be better. All species undergo changes to adapt to a changing world, we've largely lost this function. Maybe it's time for an artificial solution?
We have domesticated ourselves and are adapting to our newly created environment, we haven't stopped adapting. Homo sapiens have adapted to the world and are highly successful, we just need another race adapted to the space environment.
 

SvenSvensonov

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Numbers are a human artifice, a concept. Existence or non-existence is a meaningless question.
You're assessment is equally so. Don't reject a question, your answer is no more valid than any other being postulated here or elsewhere. It is a point of view, among many others, that is only one solution to a question that hes yet to be resolved.

Don't resign something as "meaningess", show why it is. Saying something is useless helps no one, and the goal of this thread isn't to determine such anyways, it's to get people to think critically.

E. Lee Lady: Do Numbers and Other Mathematical Entities Really Exist?

Do Numbers Exist? – We Love Philosophy

Plato's Heaven: Do numbers exist?


Why are numbers a construct of our consciousness? Why can't they be a result of the natural order of our universe?

We have domesticated ourselves and are adapting to our newly created environment, we haven't stopped adapting. Homo sapiens have adapted to the world and are highly successful, we just need another race adapted to the space environment.
Adaptation is different from evolution though. I can adapt to a new climate within days, but I can't evolve genetic traits such as darker skin or lighter eyes without years or hundreds of them, that is where cybernetics and augmentation would shorten the process by changing the way humans are fundamentally. Take gene modding as an example of augmentation. We can inject useful traits to product the next, the very next generation as we so desire. Natural selection and eugenics would take hundreds of years to match the same.
 
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Aepsilons

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This is a bit more existentialist philosophy that classic philosophy. But I've been thinking about this as I've been studying the social affairs of what's happening in our world right now. So I'm not usually a man that likes to talk about this , but , you know what, i guess that's the beauty of PDF is that we can reach out to people here who might have answers to things we don't usually bring up in daily life. Aside from one's own religious life, lol.

So this goes to @SvenSvensonov , @Developereo , @Syrian Lion , @levina , @al-Hasani , @Steve781 , @flamer84 , @Horus , @Manticore , @Oscar , @Jungibaaz and everyone else --- Early philosophers and even early mystics claimed that there is a soul, sure our respective religions even teach of it, do you think that the human soul can be reached? Where do you think it is located?

I'm going to be gone for the rest of the evening, so i look forward to your answers, responses maybe tomorrow. :)


Good night Gents! and Ladies!



Best,
 

SvenSvensonov

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This is a bit more existentialist philosophy that classic philosophy. But I've been thinking about this as I've been studying the social affairs of what's happening in our world right now. So I'm not usually a man that likes to talk about this , but , you know what, i guess that's the beauty of PDF is that we can reach out to people here who might have answers to thinks we don't usually bring up in daily life. Aside from one's own religious life, lol.

So this goes to @SvenSvensonov , @Developereo , @Syrian Lion , @levina , @al-Hasani , @Steve781 , @flamer84 , @Horus , @Manticore , @Oscar , @Jungibaaz and everyone else --- Early philosophers and even early mystics claimed that there is a soul, sure our respective religions even teach of it, do you think that the human soul can be reached? Where do you think it is located?

I'm going to be gone for the rest of the evening, so i look forward to your answers, responses maybe tomorrow. :)


Good night Gents! and Ladies!



Best,
We accept any topic though, these are just the ones that have so far manifested. If you have a classic philosophy topic, existentialist or any other school, go ahead. All topics are welcome!

On the soul, I'll provide some primers for others, but will refrain from such a discussion. @Nihonjin1051 - this is one topic I must decline, not on this thread (your contributions are very welcomed!!!!!), but from answering. I'm not a religious person, neither accept nor reject the concept of a soul and don't really want to get into a religious debate with anyone - as this will most probably descend into. A good topic, and I wish everyone else luck!!! Happy debating!

Neuroscience suggests that there is no soul

Does The Soul Exist? Evidence Says ‘Yes’ | Psychology Today

My profession is offering that a soul exists, while the focus of my Masters studies is offering the opposite... what am I to believe?
 
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