• Tuesday, December 12, 2017

Pandora's Box - Religious Profiteering and Faizabad Incident

Discussion in 'Pakistani Siasat' started by Kaptaan, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Kaptaan

    Kaptaan PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    [​IMG]


    https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/who-is-khadim-hussain-rizvi.531620/#post-10061697


    Who is Khadim Hussain Rizvi? He is face of of a disease that is eating away at Pakistan from the inside out and has been doing so since before 1947. What is this disease? The idea that any man can use religion by simply picking up the banner of "Allah" to peddle politics and power. I believe the Chinese call this "religious profiteering".

    I read one of the conclusions of the Justice Munir Commission Report 1954 was that no matter what the cause, no matter how unfair the cause, no matter how illegal the cause if you can galvanize the religious sentiments of the Pakistani masses then you can get away with anything including murder. Everything depends how well you use religion or how effective you are as a "religious profiteer".

    How far and how effective "religious profiteering" is was known to the countries founders. They used it so effectively that we got Pakistan in 1947. Thus was opened the Pandora's Box. Extreme measures like amputating a leg are sometimes required and legitimate course of action in extenuating circumstances of historical import. Sometimes, sometimes one evil might be lesser of the alternative evils. So we can excuse our founding fathers for opening the Pandora's Box.

    However the leaders Pakistan got after 1947 were lesser mortals and became addicted to one of the potent evils within our Pandora's Box - "religious profiteering". If this evil could be used for defeating the British and Congress why not use it to gain advantage in domestic Pakistani politics. Soon every leader began using it to gain popularity with the masses. Military dictators, civilian politicians espousing the left or those on the right of the politics become avid religious profiteers to gain advantage over their opponent.

    Thus began the descent to chaos. The bar continously got lower. The Liaqat Khan government introduced the "Objectives Resolution" which gave legal sanction to "religious profieering". Even Ayub at times dallied in profiteering from religion despite coming across as secularist. Bhutto claimed socialism but as he felt heat he also become a champion profiteer by owering bar further down then anybody had ever dared do. He acquiesced to demands by the clergy and had Ahmedis declared as non Muslims. By this time the Mullahs had cottoned on to the fact that were more than anybody else sat on the perfect recipe for power in Pakistan - use of religion for political gain.

    This process went on and on. Today we are in a situation that everybody is in race to out do each other by using religion to gain points against the other party. We saw the perfect exposition for this with the recent Faizabad incident. A almost unknown Mullah - Khadim Hussain Rizvi managed to hold hostage a major nuclear power of 200 million people. After causing deaths, mayhem and destruction on a epic scale within mile of seat of power in the Pakistani capital he walked away with every demand he made and then some. On top of that his suppporters were bribed with money handed by non other than DG of the Rangers. How bad can this get? The humiliation and defeat of the Pakistani state was complete.


    [​IMG]


    So what conclusions do we draw from this? One possibility is that the Pakistani political elite is so corrupted by money that they have lost any interest in holding on to respect for the the state. However as easy as this conclusion is I think there is more to this. The military also buckled. GHQ is only two miles from Faizabad. One call from COAS to interior ministry to sort out the mess and send a warning signal by placing triple three brigade on alert would have done the trick.

    That did not happen. The military was also complicit in the craven appeasement we saw. So what do we conclude from this? Could it be that they had no choice. Religious profiteering has gone so far that it has spread like a disease into every corner of Pakistani society. Could it be they saw the the danger that if it had come to full head on collision between the state/military and the protesters might win by outdoing the "religion card".

    Could it be that within the masses the protesters would come across as the legitimate defenders of Islam? In this scenario could the civil/military elite have been faced with mass desertions within police, FC and army?

    Years ago on a visit to Pakistan a friends Suzuki Mehran broke down. So we got another friends Toyota Landcruiser to tow it. The Landcruiser had enough raw grunt that it could have pulled two Mehrans behind it. But we struggled because we could not find sufficiently strong rope. We did our best but if the Landcruiser pulled off too strongly or changed direction abruptly the rope keep breaking. So we had to drive the Landcruiser slowly and gently. To a onlooker it would have appeared that the giant Landcruiser was struggling to pull the tiny Mehran. The reality was the rope was not strong enough to cope with too much tension or stress.

    In the same way could it be the military elite saw that if things had got worse and a head on collision had taken place they might have faced a rupture?


    https://www.dawn.com/news/1352009/faces-of-nationalism


    We can only hope that our ruling elite have noe learn't a lesson and are slowly reconstructing Pakistan society and institutions including the military along lines that are not open to "religious profiteering". We can only hope that a secular nationalism takes root. Or it is only a matter of time before religious profiteering runs into the other economic force that is making inroads in Pakistan - the CPEC. And that has China behind it. Does the ruling elite want to see a day where CPEC collides with the Mullahs?

    Thoughts?


    @Sher Shah Awan @Joe Shearer @Diplomat @AndrewJin @Zibago @KediKesenFare
     
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  2. Zibago

    Zibago ELITE MEMBER

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    This molvi said bhar mein jaye China hamain sirf deen ki hukmarani chahiye
    He has zero idea how basic economics works and he may end up with one or two seats from Jhang
     
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  3. HannibalBarca

    HannibalBarca SENIOR MEMBER

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    We did have that behavior after the TN revolution... they did prosper to the point that our nationality is known around the globe
    But they were countered by one thing..; we proved them that the other side, known better on the matter that they build their swords on...
    In english... we proved them wrong... by putting knowledge in the masses and now..; the Eagles became rats...
     
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  4. Zibago

    Zibago ELITE MEMBER

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    They feared Laal Masjid 2.0 i dont think this was any different from countless other blasphemy protests these clowns will die very quickly as anger of one sect cannot win votes
     
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  5. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    Dear Kaptaan,

    This is a genie released from the bottle by Mohandas Gandhi, whom I otherwise respect and admire. In 1920, he committed the Indian National Congress to the support of the sectarian Khilafat Movement, in return for support for the independence movement by the Muslim leaders of that movement. Both Jinnah and Tilak warned him against this step; Jinnah warned him against mixing religion and politics and predicted that the results would be unforeseeable, and walked out of the Congress, never to return.

    Today, we are, in India, also under the grip of this genie. You will not need a recital of the dreadful struggle that is being waged in my country to put matters firmly under the grip of the majority community, even to the extent of undermining each and every institution that had held our country together in the face of the bewildering diversity that we are. At this stage, to witness, as we did, the creation of a provocation, the intemperate response of the fundamentalists, the weakness of the government in the face of a determined minority intent on having its way, and the final denouement, when the last remaining force that might have faced down the blackmailers refused to intervene in such a sensitive matter when its own chief had been the subject of a whisper campaign about the orthodoxy of his own views, was excruciatingly painful. At each stage, people hoped that there would be bold but tempered steps; at each stage, we had to watch while the situation lurched downwards one level lower.

    I can only hope that your country finds its way out of this very existential problem and I hope that you and other men and women of goodwill and integrity will wish us just the same in our own troubled stage.

    My sincere good wishes to you and to all Pakistanis, both citizens and members of its distinguished diaspora.
     
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  6. Zibago

    Zibago ELITE MEMBER

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    Once the genie is unleashed it doesnot go back without a big sacrifice

    Sadly no one is gutsy enough to make it in the top echelons of power
     
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  7. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    What you and @Kaptaan are pointing out is sadly something that has been irreversible in Pakistan, and, more sadly, has been something that we have watched at close quarters in India.

    From the deviation from Jinnah's vision of a nation-state for Indian Muslims, that was itself divergent from his earlier emphasis on the idea of Muslim Indians, through Liaqat's speeches, the Objectives Resolution, Bhutto's Islamic Republic and Zia's thorough-going grass roots level re-orientation, each step has been one further down a particular path than the previous step.

    On our side, the Congress came to power after the first Communist regime with ridiculous claims to stand for a populist action programme; it failed to implement that and lost. The second Communist regime took over; having lost power, it sacrificed everything - well, almost everything - to regain power; the result was a nauseating populism that nobody thought could be exceeded. Everybody thought wrong. Mamata Bannerjee has taken it unfathomable depths. Requiescat in Pace, Bengal.
     
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  8. Zibago

    Zibago ELITE MEMBER

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    It can be reversed if we get a strong govt for change and not a govt which is only concerned about filling its own pockets
    As of now no party has the political will or ability to tackle ingrained bigotry that has taken over our society

    For some odd reason the boggie man of Islam under threat still sells
     
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  9. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    Tell US about it!
     
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  10. MBT 3000

    MBT 3000 FULL MEMBER

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    liberals calling for burning and killing People are peaceful right?
    khooni liberals
     
  11. punit

    punit SENIOR MEMBER

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    Same logic was given when seat deal with TTP was being signed and the deal was hailed as great initiative towards peaceful solution . Rest is history.
     
  12. Mangus Ortus Novem

    Mangus Ortus Novem SENIOR MEMBER

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    God for love.

    God for money.

    God for Power.

    Perhaps it is part of Human Condition that societies...all societies... go through this cycle. Religion is neither a bad thing nor a good.... just like anything else... it is its usage that matters. Soul's journey is a solitary affair!

    Agitating, exciting the masses...flaring up their anger, their passions to use as weapon is nothing new. All idealogies, -isms and social/political movements have done it and shall keep doing it for the foreseeable future. Be it identity politics or religious influence... Humans remain tribal.

    The Idea of Pakistan has gone through so many changes..each cycle of power grab... civilian or military... had engineered the tweaks to the Idea of Pakistan to meet its near term goals... i.e. power grab. However, each of these engineerings have conditioned the people of Pak in a particular way.

    When the ruling elite failed to provide services such as impartial justice, rule of law, education and healthcare... they let the cohesion of state to be run by religion... creating a vaccum which the religious elite have happily filled.

    Now the religious elite has gained significant political capital to spend... and spend they will. The demonstrations are show of force/power. More shall be coming...each larger/violent than the previous.

    The unashamed/unrestrained corruption of democracy leaders of all parties have left the masses without hope or belief in the System.... it is a subliminal process. And here in depth of desperations people seek certainty...HOPE. Religion provides that. HOPE.

    Until Pak Establishment/ Political Elite can provide HOPE and tangible results... the religious elite will keep on gaining more political capital.

    There is NOTHING wrong to hold something deeply sacred...such as Sacred Book or the Sacred Prophet or the God... in a way it is a very good thing... only the application of such devotion is the Key.

    Liberals are people who are middle class with enough material underpinnings to engage in fancy ideas... Essentially liberals want to do whatever they want and not have any stigma of Sin attached to their adventures.

    Conservaties just want to get rich while holding their way of life intact.

    Liberaterian are the best.. but remain in hiding and never is numbers to make a difference. They just don't want to pay taxes.

    Economy, Economy, Economy... the only remedy!

    Look at UAE... a rather conservatie society... yet extremely pragmatic... in certain ways extremely liberal. Women in work place and educated. No religious power grab.... mullahs in the mosques... and no demonstrations in the street. Are they less Muslims than Paks? Same for all GCC. KSA is a different equation. @Khafee

    Quite a sad sight...seeing this beautiful, historic, Civilisational State.... being run like this. If there is Sin...then this apathy is the greatest Sin.

    Hopefully, the Idea of Pakistan will again have traction with the Youth of Pak...especially the Middle Class of Pakistan.

    The Funny thing is that the religious elites were against the Idea of Pakistan... they contributed NOTHING to the creation of Pak... and now they have made a nest in Pak... Tragedy and Farce are siamese twins afterall.

    How can Mullahs of Iran can be bad and not of Pakistan?

    The Covenant is between the Soul and the Creator... no priest or mullah needed in this beautiful relationship!
     
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  13. El Sidd

    El Sidd ELITE MEMBER

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    Religion or Politics are just two basic tools for the preservation of the status quo. They are intertwined in their destiny as lust of power and influence seduces the human thought process.

    For some people status quo is holier than any divine will and its preservation the only survival tactic they know.

    From Constantin to Akhenaten, religion is nothing but a tool to preserve the status quo. That is why the French Renaissance is treated as the start of the Modern Era.

    Pakistan will be ready for it in 20 years.
     
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  14. Jaanbaz

    Jaanbaz ELITE MEMBER

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    Nope, give it another 50-80 years.
     
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  15. KediKesenFare

    KediKesenFare SENIOR MEMBER

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    In my opinion, neither religion nor people trying to benefit politically from the religiosity of the Pakistani society are the real problem here. Be it secular or religious; you will always find people trying to change the distribution of power in the society by exploiting social concerns. This is a manifestation of the human nature.

    The issue in case of Pakistan is that the Islamist movements are almost completely detached from the Pakistani state. By this I mean that Islamist elements in Pakistan don't fight for the hegemony within the locally available state structures. Just look at Iran. It has an Islamist state and societal order and various (Islamist) groups are engaged in a struggle for control of the pre-existing state system. But none of them really wants to destroy the Iranian state. The state is not seen as an enemy.

    Turkey on the other hand is a secular state and it has a society based on secular laws. But if you look closer, you will find smaller - hardly significant - Islamist movements (e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicity_Party). Even among these Islamist groups the establishment of the unitary state is seen as a holy command by Allah. They aim to change the essence of the state but not the state itself. They fight secular groups on the one hand, but they would never attack a soldier/police officer on the other hand even though the police officer might protect secular groups.

    Recently, the Islamic Religious Body of Turkey announced a Fatwa against Bitcoin. This Fatwa is not taken seriously by anyone in Turkey. It has no legally binding character whatsoever. What is seen by the ordinary Western guy as a sign of Islamization is in fact an expression of the Turkish secularism. It shows how deep it goes. Because the reasoning behind this Fatwa is purely secular:

    In order for a currency to have a monetary value,” the Turkish Islamic authority continued, “it must either take its value in the state authority or have a unique value like gold. Virtual money, although used by some sectors as a means of exchange, can not be regarded as money because it does not have the prestige and credibility that the state provides, and because there is no central financial institution behind it and it is not under government guarantee.
    https://news.bitcoin.com/turkey-rel...opriate-to-buy-or-sell-for-islamic-believers/

    The state is the centerpiece of any secular system. Among the Islamist movements of the Middle East, you will find two major traditions regarding the implementation of Islamic law (Sharia).

    The first one is the Turco-Persian Tradition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turco-Persian_tradition), which aims to change the state from within. Historically, the Persian Islamists were more successful because the Turkish identity is more strongly linked to the (secular) state than the Persian identity.

    The second one is Arab jihadism of all sorts. Islamist groups of this branch are considering the state as an enemy even if it's Islamic like in Pakistan.

    Unfortunately, Pakistan is moving away from the Turco-Persian axis towards Arabian jihadism.

    To stop this drifting, Pakistan urgently needs a strict secular state order regardless of the Islamic content.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 1:25 PM
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