What's new

Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

Which rifle should win the competition?

  • FN-SCAR-H

    Votes: 231 43.3%
  • Beretta ARX-200

    Votes: 59 11.1%
  • CZ-806 Bren2

    Votes: 113 21.2%
  • Kalashnikov AK-103

    Votes: 116 21.8%
  • Zavasta M21

    Votes: 15 2.8%

  • Total voters
    533

iLION12345_1

FULL MEMBER
May 1, 2016
1,721
11
4,923
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Turks are using their own guns.
That’s because they are either deployed there or are there for longer So they brought their own gear, Turkey-Azerbaijan have a lot more military Co-operation.
When the Turkish SF were training Pakistan with ZATU they were using Pakistani gear and guns. The SSG in this case is definitely using Azeri equipment.
 

SSGOPERATOR

FULL MEMBER
Oct 24, 2020
181
0
136
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
That’s because they are either deployed there or are there for longer So they brought their own gear, Turkey-Azerbaijan have a lot more military Co-operation.
When the Turkish SF were training Pakistan with ZATU they were using Pakistani gear and guns. The SSG in this case is definitely using Azeri equipment.
Training SSG or training with SSG?
 

iLION12345_1

FULL MEMBER
May 1, 2016
1,721
11
4,923
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Training SSG or training with SSG?
Training with. No foreign SFs currently train the SSG, I believe US has done so in the past, but i may even be wrong about that, Turkey certainly has never done so. It’s never really been needed for the SSG.
If anything SSG is in a position where it is training SFs from a few other countries in the ME and Africa (Nigeria and Palestine come to mind, among others).

SSG only trains with other SFs, which is always a learning experience for both sides given everyone has their unique way of training and unique experiences, SSG has some of the most experience in COIN and mountain warfare Ops, they’ve trained with basically everyone at this point, The best of the US, British, NATO, Russian, Chinese, Turkish And so on.
 

SSGOPERATOR

FULL MEMBER
Oct 24, 2020
181
0
136
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Training with. No foreign SFs currently train the SSG, I believe US has done so in the past, but i may even be wrong about that, Turkey certainly has never done so. It’s never really been needed for the SSG.
If anything SSG is in a position where it is training SFs from a few other countries in the ME and Africa (Nigeria and Palestine come to mind, among others).

SSG only trains with other SFs, which is always a learning experience for both sides given everyone has their unique way of training and unique experiences, SSG has some of the most experience in COIN and mountain warfare Ops, they’ve trained with basically everyone at this point, The best of the US, British, NATO, Russian, Chinese, Turkish And so on.
@PanzerKiel why so sad? is something wrong?
 

The Terminator

FULL MEMBER
May 2, 2015
333
1
268
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Taken with Manstein's mobile :D
Btw do you know what it's about?

I don't think we are going to replace our pistols before rifles. But who knows.
Those officers in decision making positions don't even use rifles, so you may expect newer modern pistols in our army even before standard rifle replacement. And pistols would be relatively in low volume and would cost less $$ to acquire as compared to standard issue rifles 😜
 

The Terminator

FULL MEMBER
May 2, 2015
333
1
268
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Is Pakistan considering a 6.8mm caliber Rifle; supposedly similar kinetic performance to a 7.62 but with the range of a 5.56
What are you talking about? 7.62 NATO has more effective range than 5.56 NATO. The only issue with 7.62 is its bulky and not suitable for fully automatic fire.
Newer US prototype rifles and ammo are worth considering because it would take at least 2 or 3 decades more to replace the standard rifles whatever PAK Army decides to acquire today. So any of the standard rifle procurement must meet the requirements of future warfare at least till 2050s.

I might be wrong but I expect modern major militaries to be equipped with thermal sights replacing NVGs, Sophisticated fire control systems mounted on the rifles replacing legacy optics, body armor capable of stopping at least 7.62x51 rounds reliably and some sort of data linked helmet mounted IBMS systems by 2030s.

By then our beloved rifles SCAR-H or AK-103 mounted with red dot or 4x ACOG sights with personal radios and GPS equipped soldiers wouldn't stand a chance against the militaries equiped with aforementioned equipment. Their average soldier would have the capability of a sniper, corner-shot, thermal vision, highly networked, impenetrable body armor by regular rifle rounds. It would require an anti material rifle round or an RPG to neutralize that kind of threat from a distance. That soldier would be equivalent to a walking infantry fighting vehicle of this day.
 

SSGOPERATOR

FULL MEMBER
Oct 24, 2020
181
0
136
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Those officers in decision making positions don't even use rifles, so you may expect newer modern pistols in our army even before standard rifle replacement. And pistols would be relatively in low volume and would cost less $$ to acquire as compared to standard issue rifles 😜
BTW i am not sure if Canik is better than Glock so SSG might not change their pistols.
 

SSGOPERATOR

FULL MEMBER
Oct 24, 2020
181
0
136
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
What are you talking about? 7.62 NATO has more effective range than 5.56 NATO. The only issue with 7.62 is its bulky and not suitable for fully automatic fire.
Newer US prototype rifles and ammo are worth considering because it would take at least 2 or 3 decades more to replace the standard rifles whatever PAK Army decides to acquire today. So any of the standard rifle procurement must meet the requirements of future warfare at least till 2050s.

I might be wrong but I expect modern major militaries to be equipped with thermal sights replacing NVGs, Sophisticated fire control systems mounted on the rifles replacing legacy optics, body armor capable of stopping at least 7.62x51 rounds reliably and some sort of data linked helmet mounted IBMS systems by 2030s.

By then our beloved rifles SCAR-H or AK-103 mounted with red dot or 4x ACOG sights with personal radios and GPS equipped soldiers wouldn't stand a chance against the militaries equiped with aforementioned equipment. Their average soldier would have the capability of a sniper, corner-shot, thermal vision, highly networked, impenetrable body armor by regular rifle rounds. It would require an anti material rifle round or an RPG to neutralize that kind of threat from a distance. That soldier would be equivalent to a walking infantry fighting vehicle of this day.
and InshaAllah then those soldiers will evacuate Afghanistan with their heads down(I am just being sarcastic don't take it personally. Your ideas are great.)
 
Last edited:

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
5,461
20
6,552
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
What are you talking about? 7.62 NATO has more effective range than 5.56 NATO. The only issue with 7.62 is its bulky and not suitable for fully automatic fire.
Newer US prototype rifles and ammo are worth considering because it would take at least 2 or 3 decades more to replace the standard rifles whatever PAK Army decides to acquire today. So any of the standard rifle procurement must meet the requirements of future warfare at least till 2050s.

I might be wrong but I expect modern major militaries to be equipped with thermal sights replacing NVGs, Sophisticated fire control systems mounted on the rifles replacing legacy optics, body armor capable of stopping at least 7.62x51 rounds reliably and some sort of data linked helmet mounted IBMS systems by 2030s.

By then our beloved rifles SCAR-H or AK-103 mounted with red dot or 4x ACOG sights with personal radios and GPS equipped soldiers wouldn't stand a chance against the militaries equiped with aforementioned equipment. Their average soldier would have the capability of a sniper, corner-shot, thermal vision, highly networked, impenetrable body armor by regular rifle rounds. It would require an anti material rifle round or an RPG to neutralize that kind of threat from a distance. That soldier would be equivalent to a walking infantry fighting vehicle of this day.
See the YouTube channel “Task&purpose”. The US is considering 6.8mm rounds; said to have the stopping power of the 7.62 but closer to the weight of the 5.56mm. Ranges are out to 800 meters effective for rifles with the use of FCS built into scopes and the use of suppressors to minimize acoustic and IR signatures from the muzzle flashes. The US is expected to pick its preferred rifle by the end of the year. I’m sure the PA is watching to see the trend and will ultimately pick a competitive rifle it can have in services for at least a generation or two
 

The Terminator

FULL MEMBER
May 2, 2015
333
1
268
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Training with. No foreign SFs currently train the SSG, I believe US has done so in the past, but i may even be wrong about that, Turkey certainly has never done so. It’s never really been needed for the SSG.
If anything SSG is in a position where it is training SFs from a few other countries in the ME and Africa (Nigeria and Palestine come to mind, among others).

SSG only trains with other SFs, which is always a learning experience for both sides given everyone has their unique way of training and unique experiences, SSG has some of the most experience in COIN and mountain warfare Ops, they’ve trained with basically everyone at this point, The best of the US, British, NATO, Russian, Chinese, Turkish And so on.
Like you said training with. Training with doesn't mean a lot except from mocking some standard CQB exercises and exchanging gear with other SFs. If your country is perfectly aligned with the other one or a close ally then that's entirely another ball game of cooperation. But even then there are some tactics of the top tier SFs that they don't really share with best of their allies too for example, the true door breaching tactics of top tier British and US SFs are unknown to even between themselves.

SF training is an art you learn by sweating in the training camps and bleeding in the battlefields, and by creating the best possible institutional training regimes.
 

SSGOPERATOR

FULL MEMBER
Oct 24, 2020
181
0
136
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Like you said training with. Training with doesn't mean a lot except from mocking some standard CQB exercises and exchanging gear with other SFs. If your country is perfectly aligned with the other one or a close ally then that's entirely another ball game of cooperation. But even then there are some tactics of the top tier SFs that they don't really share with best of their allies too for example, the true door breaching tactics of top tier British and US SFs are unknown to even between themselves.

SF training is an art you learn by sweating in the training camps and bleeding in the battlefields, and by creating the best possible institutional training regimes.
You're right and wrong at the same time. Yes not everything is shared but SSG commandos whom I asked told me that they benefit us and not just "mocking some standard CQB exercises and exchanging gear" happens but also a lot of other things including concepts, experiences, etc. are shared.
 

The Terminator

FULL MEMBER
May 2, 2015
333
1
268
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
and InshaAllah then those soldiers will evacuate Afghanistan with their heads down(I am just being sarcastic don't take it personally. Your ideas are great.)
Yeah you are right bro. The cold Era weapons can effectively put holes in your body till today. Even our military utilizes post upgraded WW2 weapons too. But time is changing fast due to the advent of semiconductor microchips. Human is no longer the most genius entity in this world today. AI is taking over everything. AI can learn centuries of the brilliance of a group of top scientists in a matter of hours.

Couple of decades ago we were amused by mobile devices which could call and send text messages. Now we have the entire world inside our pocket. That's the real issue.

Even the determination and courage of Imaan or afghan Taliban can't do that much against future AI systems and semiconductor tech unless you have means to disable or hack it which makes you roughly near peer to them in some sense.
Afghans would never have won without AKs, RPGs, Mortar, Artillery rounds, Explosives, stinger missiles etc. They still had most of the items required to really hurt their adversaries just short of air support and modern drone tech. That's why it costed them a grind of 20 years to win the war of attrition.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom