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Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

Which rifle should win the competition?

  • FN-SCAR-H

    Votes: 233 44.0%
  • Beretta ARX-200

    Votes: 59 11.1%
  • CZ-806 Bren2

    Votes: 111 20.9%
  • Kalashnikov AK-103

    Votes: 113 21.3%
  • Zavasta M21

    Votes: 15 2.8%

  • Total voters
    530

The Terminator

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Well even US military personnels used captured AKs in Iraq and perhaps Afghanistan too to their advantage. But even then they had to maintain their standard issued weapon in pristine shape unless they wanna get into some real trouble. Loss of Standard issued weapon in the battlefield should have to be backed up by a really good reason, solid story and fellow soldiers witnesses to just get away with minimal paperwork.
 

Ahmet Pasha

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Price of a decent M4/Ar-15 maybe around 1000 to 1200 $ in the US. Our officers families run their businesses in the US too. So why the heck they can't afford a pathetic M4 being sold there like candies :chilli:. Whereas an under average American Joe could have a stockpile of those rifles dumped under his bed.

I talked about the kids, students playing video games continuously day & night due to Covid holidays for almost 2 years.
:hitwall:
Bro milspec M16 İ saw on gun trader last year was $3500.
 

The Terminator

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sirjee the thing is army officers have different backgrounds.Some are son of JCOs, some generals,some businessmen, some of them have poor background.
One thing can work,a license from colt which i dont think will ever happen or maybe.
Why do you think Colt M4 is generations ahead than what we currently operating and our prospective future acquisition? Even their own soldiers preferred AKs and then adopted 7.62 calibre rifles in frontline units too. I bet if they would have found a stash of our oldie G3s there, they would have picked up that too. Because G3 still shoots with a heck lot of muzzle energy to hammer down the sturdiest of the targets. They eventually adopted its successor in shape of SCAR-H.

Every platform has its pros and cons. There isn't an ultimate rifle for the super soldiers. And yes cold War Era weapons can still put holes in the body through modern body armor but ehh with less modularity and creature comfort though.
Bro milspec M16 İ saw on gun trader last year was $3500.
In civilian market?
As I already mentioned as a decent or you may say cost effective choice. Better than the shit created in darra at least.

Their local gunsmith industry is far far better, centuries ahead in QC, tech, metallurgy and educated workforce than our ancient style handcrafted gun manufacturing industry.
 
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Ghost 125

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Price of a decent M4/Ar-15 maybe around 1000 to 1200 $ in the US. Our officers families run their businesses in the US too.
perhaps you know better about wealth of officers than me. there is a reference in your post, but officers does not means only Generals, plus gens dont have to move arround in battlefield showing off their M4s. and for Lts, Capts, Majs, Lt Cols and Brigs....its a luxury.
 

iLION12345_1

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perhaps you know better about wealth of officers than me. there is a reference in your post, but officers does not means only Generals, plus gens dont have to move arround in battlefield showing off their M4s. and for Lts, Capts, Majs, Lt Cols and Brigs....its a luxury.
It’s just hilarious how much people think the average army officer earns. They see one retired general with a successful business (either that one is corrupt or not has little relation to the army given the nature of Pakistani people; there will be 10 rich, corrupt government officials and politicians for every corrupt retired army officer, not that it justifies any army or Ex-army persons corruption) and think every officer from a Lt to a brigadier is living in the lap of luxury too.

It’s come to the point where any successful retired army officer is instantly considered to be “doing business in the US”, as if there’s anything wrong with that in the first place, and just imagine if one were able to do a successful business or job in Pakistan. Oh no, that one just has to be corrupt.

It more speaks about the condition of the country where one has to think if corruption is involved every time there is a mildly successful person. The loud and corrupt minority makes the silent and hard working majority look bad too.
 
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The Terminator

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It’s just hilarious how much people think the average army officer earns. They see one retired general with a successful business (either that one is corrupt or not has little relation to the army given the nature of Pakistani people; there will be 10 rich, corrupt government officials and politicians for every corrupt retired army officer, not that it justifies any army or Ex-army persons corruption) and think every officer from a Lt to a brigadier is living in the lap of luxury too.

It’s come to the point where any successful retired army officer is instantly considered to be “doing business in the US”, as if there’s anything wrong with that in the first place, and just imagine if one were able to do a successful business or job in Pakistan. Oh no, that one just has to be corrupt.

It more speaks about the condition of the country where one has to think if corruption is involved every time there is a mildly successful person. The loud and corrupt minority makes the silent and hard working majority look bad too.
You can't win bidding of projects either very small or big ones unless you got connections with people at right places and you have to give monetary benefits to them for your success. It works 90% of the time here. I am not saying that the other countries are free from corruption but here in our beloved Pakistan corruption is more pronounced, visible and doesn't shy from glamorizing itself publicly.

You might be right about the military having better record, but still military too is the part of our society and state where dishonesty and corruption is rampant. Even religious leaders, who 24/7 instill fear of God amongst public are corrupt to their core, while they daily recite the verses of Quran and Ahdees about the punishment and wrath of God for those who are corrupt, usurpers and dishonest. But not all of them for sure, there are people of great dignity and have high moral values too.

Majority of the people can't get their day to day routine calmly and claim what's rightfully their's without bribery and references of people with power. So if there's a widely accepted perception that every successful person here must would have some "connections" and would have indulged in white collar crimes to be successful as he is today. Those perceptions have some strong base in our society by just observing the ground realities of our everyday life here.

But of course there could be some exceptions too.
 

The Terminator

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perhaps you know better about wealth of officers than me. there is a reference in your post, but officers does not means only Generals, plus gens dont have to move arround in battlefield showing off their M4s. and for Lts, Capts, Majs, Lt Cols and Brigs....its a luxury.
Agreed. Here's where our Govt and military top brass should concentrate on. When a junior ranked soldier gets severely injured, permanently disabled or martyred in the battlefield, he or his family is compensated in millions worth of cash, land and better job opportunity for his kid. That's great at least our soldier knows that his family is covered and he got a decent life insurance on him.

But 1 counter narrative could be that instead of compensating the casualties of NCOs and JCOs, why not avoid it from happening at the first place? By providing them with better equipment and better protected vehicles and putting emphasis/money on the human resource.

If you put me in their place and I have been offered 2 options. First option would be that I would get tens of millions in compensation if I ever get seriously wounded/disabled or KIA. Or the second option would be to provide me the best possible equipment, training, logistics and safety gear instead. I would always go for the latter one because it wouldn't only give me the better fighting chance against all odds, maybe high probability of protecting myself and my buddies to be badly injured in sticky situations but it would also increase my overall efficiency in the battlefield rather than be a liability to my family and department after loosing a limb or two, let alone the trauma I would face after being permanently disabled and be dependant upon others for my daily tasks for the rest of my life.

So if you think M4 is much better than what we currently have, then all of my soldiers and military officers on the front lines deserve the best. Why not HK 416. No compromises upon human lives whatsoever.

Alas! But the tragedy is they never get asked. There is even a corruption in opinions too. Either the main stake holders nvere get asked or they are brainwashed to the extent that they loose the ability to apprehend and think of their own opinion about their betterment.
 
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The Terminator

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What China does to circumvent the western tech ban on China and fast track their tech research is that they absorb smaller insignificant but really potent startups or small/medium enterprises by investing heavily in them. When these companies get absorbed, their skills, achievements and IPOs inadvertently goes into the Chinese control. 8-) seemless, effective and really a corporate way of achieving your end goal.

IMHO why don't we do the same? OK majority of us are illiterates, we don't know 💩 about metallurgy and polymers, so what? Invest in a capable local western gunsmith company and stick to them like parasites 😜.

In other words float a tender of a million dollar for a new Assault rifle on the market. Peanuts for the military but a huge amount for smaller companies. Test their reliability and accuracy of the parts presented by the competitors. Select the best one and buy its 50% of the shares from 3rd party offshore companies if you can't acquire them directly. Open their branch in Pakistan and Let them make a rifle for our Army. The designs of the rifles and their gas operating system are not a secret to anybody, but metallurgy is. Just copy the best possible design like H&K 416 in 5.56 category and enhance it to the required standards. Thats how we can get our 100% indigenous rifle 2nd to none.
It would also close the decades of our tech gap with the rest of the world.

Our behemoths like POF, HIT, and PAC should follow the suite and an easier way to the glory rather than begging other's made stuff to defend ourselves. :pakistan:
 

JPMM

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Ok, I will try help you get to the 500 mark
The Pakistan Army could try a 2 speed replacement program.
Keep 70% of the units with thier old rifles, and go for a new off-the-shelf rifle, allready in production somewhere only for their 1st tier forces (ex Strike Corps, Rapid deployment forces, SSG and LCB)
This way you only need 30% of the money do go ahead with it and you could just "BUY" instead the guns, no TOT, no more tests, just delivery
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Invictus01

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It's funny how people select a rifle based purely on looks with zero knowledge of the firearms industry
I'm a gun enthusiastic with trigger time behind a lot of guns
CZ makes the best affordable firearms in the world hands down. FN on the other hand is expensive & overrated
I really hope PA goes for CZ
 

Bossman

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It's funny how people select a rifle based purely on looks with zero knowledge of the firearms industry
I'm a gun enthusiastic with trigger time behind a lot of guns
CZ makes the best affordable firearms in the world hands down. FN on the other hand is expensive & overrated
I really hope PA goes for CZ
I have seen evidence of something going on between POF and CZ. I don’t know what it is or how big it is but something is going on. Some POF stuff was being tested in CZ.
 

JPMM

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I have seen evidence of something going on between POF and CZ. I don’t know what it is or how big it is but something is going on. Some POF stuff was being tested in CZ.
If you could view my vote above, its CZ since the begining.
My Army shouse the SCAR becouse it was affered better economic solution and extra rifles for free. I was part of a larger deal with LMGs/HMGs/40mm GLs and sniper rifles included, and in both calibres (5.56/7.62)
My Air Force shouse the CZ instead, but in smaller numbers.
 

Sudarshan

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It's funny how people select a rifle based purely on looks with zero knowledge of the firearms industry
I'm a gun enthusiastic with trigger time behind a lot of guns
CZ makes the best affordable firearms in the world hands down. FN on the other hand is expensive & overrated
I really hope PA goes for CZ
CZ BRENS are made in India:-)
 

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