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Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

Which rifle should win the competition?

  • FN-SCAR-H

    Votes: 226 44.9%
  • Beretta ARX-200

    Votes: 57 11.3%
  • CZ-806 Bren2

    Votes: 105 20.9%
  • Kalashnikov AK-103

    Votes: 103 20.5%
  • Zavasta M21

    Votes: 13 2.6%

  • Total voters
    503

iLION12345_1

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7.62x51 Will remain the Pakistan armies standard caliber for the foreseeable if not far future. You simply cannot replace that as you would have to Re-tool entire factories, get rid of all your reserves and produce new ones, and you would lose the uniformity of cartridge between you standard MG, DMR, SR and BR (battle rifle)
Moreover 7.62x51 is good for Pakistani terrain and the 2 million~ trained soldiers are familiar with it. It’s unfeasible to change it.

Another thing people don’t seem to understand is that the G3 has never been and will never be fired in full auto in any combat situation, it’s an accurate weapon and so will be the next weapon they induct chambered in the same round, when you can drop an enemy wearing body armor in one shot, why fire full auto? That’s what your MG3 is for, suppressive fire.

Just let it be clear: the G3 is not the standard ASSAULT rifle of the PA, it is the standard BATTLE Rifle. That’s why the AK103 is standardized alongside it for operations where you need a smaller weapon. This dual system works well as both these rounds and rifles (whatever they replace the G3 with) can be used in different circumstances as required. The PA Refers to AK103 as an ‘SMG’ (as it did with Type 56/other AKs) as it started using them in that CQB role during the WoT (room clearing is near impossible with a G3). But it is the standard AR of the PA. We’re starting to see mainly just AKs in soldiers hands because the photos we get are mostly from the WoT where the AKs are more useful. But a modern 7.62x51 weapon will surely be well suited to engagements along the eastern border or beyond.
 

626

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yrr aise karo... choro bandook ko seedha har soldier ko aik attack helicopter pakra do ... remote control 🤣🤣 problem solved!
Bhai aisa kertay hain jo soldiers indian border per hain un sab ko missile day daitay hain. Modi jaisi he hip posture main aa ker surgical strike kehay ga. seedah missile ghusa dain gay.
 

Metal 0-1

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Just let it be clear: the G3 is not the standard ASSAULT rifle of the PA, it is the standard BATTLE Rifle. That’s why the AK103 is standardized alongside it for operations where you need a smaller weapon. This dual system works well as both these rounds and rifles (whatever they replace the G3 with) can be used in different circumstances as required. The PA Refers to AK103 as an ‘SMG’ (as it did with Type 56/other AKs) as it started using them in that CQB role during the WoT (room clearing is near impossible with a G3). But it is the standard AR of the PA. We’re starting to see mainly just AKs in soldiers hands because the photos we get are mostly from the WoT where the AKs are more useful. But a modern 7.62x51 weapon will surely be well suited to engagements along the eastern border or beyond.
That POF Ak-103 is not AK-103.
 

iLION12345_1

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That POF Ak-103 is not AK-103.
I found that interesting too. Some sites say that it is a “licensed copy” of AK-103 but I could not find any source or reference to a licensing contract signed between POF and Klashnikov Concern. The POF itself calls it an AK-103 too.
However it is also obviously not a Stock Type 56 as it is using polymer furniture and magazines along with the Rails and upgraded handguard. One can assume if POF is calling it as such it has the upgraded barrel as well but I’m yet to get my hands on one. I’ve only got an older one. Maybe an active duty personnel here can clarify if any have been issued.
 

Desert Fox 1

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I found that interesting too. Some sites say that it is a “licensed copy” of AK-103 but I could not find any source or reference to a licensing contract signed between POF and Klashnikov Concern. The POF itself calls it an AK-103 too.
However it is also obviously not a Stock Type 56 as it is using polymer furniture and magazines along with the Rails and upgraded handguard. One can assume if POF is calling it as such it has the upgraded barrel as well but I’m yet to get my hands on one. I’ve only got an older one. Maybe an active duty personnel here can clarify if any have been issued.
It is infact the copy of the Chinese copy of Ak47 and has nothing to do with ak103 as its is older than that. The version that you see nowadays is type 56-II
 
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iLION12345_1

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It is infact the copy of the Chinese copy of Ak47 and has nothing to do with ak103 as its is older than that. The version that you see nowadays is type 56-II
That’s also likely not true, Type 56-II has been in service for much longer than that already. The newer one is different. Yes Type 56 is the one we see most often but the one showcased at POF was probably something else and is supposed to supplement or replace the Type 56 from what I can gather.
Though I may be wrong.
 

Desert Fox 1

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That’s also likely not true, Type 56-II has been in service for much longer than that already. The newer one is different. Yes Type 56 is the one we see most often but the one showcased at POF was probably something else and is supposed to supplement or replace the Type 56 from what I can gather.
Though I may be wrong.
Please share a picture if you have
 

Metal 0-1

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I found that interesting too. Some sites say that it is a “licensed copy” of AK-103 but I could not find any source or reference to a licensing contract signed between POF and Klashnikov Concern. The POF itself calls it an AK-103 too.
However it is also obviously not a Stock Type 56 as it is using polymer furniture and magazines along with the Rails and upgraded handguard. One can assume if POF is calling it as such it has the upgraded barrel as well but I’m yet to get my hands on one. I’ve only got an older one. Maybe an active duty personnel here can clarify if any have been issued.
It is infact the copy of the Chinese copy of Ak47 and has nothing to do with ak103 as its is older than that. The version that you see nowadays is type 56-II
Let's go tip to butt and compare AK-103 and PK-21.
AK-103:
SAVE_20210121_075338.jpg

AK-103 comes with a Signature AK-100 series muzzle device which tends to reduce recoil at the cost of your comrade ears next to you. Just a joke AK-103 muzzle device is awesome.

Barrel is Cold hammer forged which is industry standard all over Europe and US.

Handguard is glass filled polymer which is more durable than wood. Remains cool after excessive use.
Klashinkov Group also offers Handguard with picatinny rails.

Magazines are made of polymer which are more lighter and reliable. But it also works with classic metal magazines.

Finish of the weapon is modern corrosion resistance finish.

On the left side you have your mount to attach rails for variety of optics.

Pistol grip is glass filled polymer too.

Now the polymer stock which is great update to wooden stock. AK-103 stock folds to the left side when carrying in vehicles. Folding on left side don't interfere with functioning of weapon.

PK-21:
SAVE_20210121_075311.jpg


There is no muzzle device. Barrel tip is same as 1959 AKM i.e slanted.

Looks like a low quality barrel.

Handguard looks like polymer but old school in look. Always skeptical of POF polymers.

Sights are same as AKM.

Receiver and Dust Cover is old school.

Under folding metal stock.

It doesn't looks like AK-103. It is Type-56/AKM painted in black.
For reference.
SAVE_20210121_075325.jpg


AKM is the first generation of AK and AK-103 is the latest Gen. So It's advanced and superior in many ways.
 

Desert Fox 1

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Anyone who has played both Call of Duty modern warfare 1and 2/3 can understand. Aks in modern warfare 1 were the basic ones and were no fun. But those in COD MW 2/3 were Ak103s and they were different and better(both in effectiveness as well as sound)
Just to give an example.:D
 

Reddawn

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7.62x51 Will remain the Pakistan armies standard caliber for the foreseeable if not far future. You simply cannot replace that as you would have to Re-tool entire factories, get rid of all your reserves and produce new ones, and you would lose the uniformity of cartridge between you standard MG, DMR, SR and BR (battle rifle)
Moreover 7.62x51 is good for Pakistani terrain and the 2 million~ trained soldiers are familiar with it. It’s unfeasible to change it.

Another thing people don’t seem to understand is that the G3 has never been and will never be fired in full auto in any combat situation, it’s an accurate weapon and so will be the next weapon they induct chambered in the same round, when you can drop an enemy wearing body armor in one shot, why fire full auto? That’s what your MG3 is for, suppressive fire.

Just let it be clear: the G3 is not the standard ASSAULT rifle of the PA, it is the standard BATTLE Rifle. That’s why the AK103 is standardized alongside it for operations where you need a smaller weapon. This dual system works well as both these rounds and rifles (whatever they replace the G3 with) can be used in different circumstances as required. The PA Refers to AK103 as an ‘SMG’ (as it did with Type 56/other AKs) as it started using them in that CQB role during the WoT (room clearing is near impossible with a G3). But it is the standard AR of the PA. We’re starting to see mainly just AKs in soldiers hands because the photos we get are mostly from the WoT where the AKs are more useful. But a modern 7.62x51 weapon will surely be well suited to engagements along the eastern border or beyond.

Good post. Is the PA going to adopt a more portable MG at the squad level? From what I've seen the MG3 is a crew operated MG. Is it deployed at the squad or platoon level?
 

iLION12345_1

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Let's go tip to butt and compare AK-103 and PK-21.
AK-103:
View attachment 708843
AK-103 comes with a Signature AK-100 series muzzle device which tends to reduce recoil at the cost of your comrade ears next to you. Just a joke AK-103 muzzle device is awesome.

Barrel is Cold hammer forged which is industry standard all over Europe and US.

Handguard is glass filled polymer which is more durable than wood. Remains cool after excessive use.
Klashinkov Group also offers Handguard with picatinny rails.

Magazines are made of polymer which are more lighter and reliable. But it also works with classic metal magazines.

Finish of the weapon is modern corrosion resistance finish.

On the left side you have your mount to attach rails for variety of optics.

Pistol grip is glass filled polymer too.

Now the polymer stock which is great update to wooden stock. AK-103 stock folds to the left side when carrying in vehicles. Folding on left side don't interfere with functioning of weapon.

PK-21:
View attachment 708841

There is no muzzle device. Barrel tip is same as 1959 AKM i.e slanted.

Looks like a low quality barrel.

Handguard looks like polymer but old school in look. Always skeptical of POF polymers.

Sights are same as AKM.

Receiver and Dust Cover is old school.

Under folding metal stock.

It doesn't looks like AK-103. It is Type-56/AKM painted in black.
For reference.
View attachment 708842

AKM is the first generation of AK and AK-103 is the latest Gen. So It's advanced and superior in many ways.
I was not referring to that AK (the picture you posted), that’s definitely not An AK103, that doesn’t even look like Type 56-II as the Bakelite furniture is missing. And the Type 56-II didn’t originally come with that muzzle attachment either though it’s seen on many now.

I also didn’t call it An AK-103 in my original post, only mentioned that POF calls it that. It does look like it has polymer hand guards but not magazine.

I wouldn’t call the barrel “low quality”, POF doesn’t exactly make “low quality weapons” or polymers. Obviously they wouldn’t be of the same grade as something made by Klashnikov Though.

But the fact that there’s no proof of a licensing contract should be the end of the discussion, POF does not produce any Real AK103s.

They are developing a new rifle for the military currently though, let’s see where that goes.
Please share a picture if you have
The one I have is similar yo the photo posted above of the one made by POF, just with a few things on it. I don’t have a proper photo of it atm so I’ll upload the one I have. (It belongs to a family member as its military issued, sorry for the bad crop, it’s an older photo.)
 

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Tomcats

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Hi,


Here is a video from a russian at how third rate the AK's made in darra are---and he is not wrong

Hi,

Seemingly---you did not hear your own video---.

Darra people are given original equipment---and still they make POS guns----.

Is there anything original came out of Darra---?
Good video and yeah he is not wrong, he summarizes it by saying that if both the state and private owned weapon makers of Pakistan worked that there is a lot of potential. Also you seem to hold a high bar for people with files and tin cans, of course quality will be horrible. Same with the Owen gun during its original state.
 

iLION12345_1

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Good post. Is the PA going to adopt a more portable MG at the squad level? From what I've seen the MG3 is a crew operated MG. Is it deployed at the squad or platoon level?
At the Section level, MG-3 can be used by a single person when needed. it will need to be replaced in time too but Pakistan is a bit behind in small arms replacement atm. We’ve made our own DMR and HMG but AR/MG remain, however the MG3 isn’t too high on the priority list at the moment from what we can see, it does its job well for now.
 

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