• Tuesday, November 19, 2019

Featured Pakistan's political history-Part 1

Discussion in 'Seniors Cafe' started by WAJsal, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    That's funny. I thought British "Make India". Ever heard of East India Company? The British even built a capital city for you guy's (New Delhi) then they even built the Viceroy House which you PM sits in. The only thing you guy's did was choose the colour of the flag.

    India is as British as fish and chips !
     
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  2. dadeechi

    dadeechi BANNED

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    That's just grand standing and posturing my dear.

    If West really wanted to take Pakistan down like Egypt, Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan it would just be matter of weeks before Pakistan becomes history...

    Pakistan was creation of British and continues to survive and confront India due to patronage of US/UK.
     
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  3. PAKISTANFOREVER

    PAKISTANFOREVER ELITE MEMBER

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    I'm not your dear you indian slimeball.

    They could take down Pakistan easily?????.....ever wondered why india was powerless to directly attack Pakistan after mumbai 2008 even though you are more than 7x bigger than us and have abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege?:azn:
    The same applies to anyone else thinking of attacking Pakistan.

    Modern day india was a creation of the British via the East india company. india was created as an impediment for China's rise as the world's 1st ever hyperpower.

    Think you are another one suffering from "lesser men syndrome" common to your kind:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/02/28/want-...has-the-biggest-penises-in-the-world-5083922/
     
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  4. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    Well it's quite complicated but I will give you a quick insight. Lieutenant-General Sir George MacMunn was a British Indian Army officer who pushed for the idea of martial race theory.

    [​IMG]


    The upshot of this was he pushed for recruitment to the British Indian Army from mostly (in this order) Punjabi Muslims, Punjabi Sikhs, Pashtuns and Gurkhas. There are others but for sake of simplicity let me stick to the larger groups. The result was by 1930 a area as large as Europe (British India) was almost exclusively recruiting froma tiny area in Punjab, NWFP and Nepal.

    This meant that when Pakistan and India became independant Pakistan got hardly any industry (most of it was in India) or resources (most of them were in India) however Pakistan ended up with huge efficient army as a good chuink of the British India Army was made up of Punjabi Muslims and Pashtuns. These units simply transferred to Pakistan Army.

    That meant after 1947 Pakistan might not have had much but it had a huge battle hardened army from WW2. That is why very soon after 1950 the army became dominant because it was the only efficent and functional arm of the state.

    Listen to this and you will see what I mean.



    @PAKISTANFOREVER Lt. Gen. MacMunn actually discriminated against the Banglas, Biharis, Tamils, Orrissans, Gujjis, Assamese and all the rest of Indian untouchables of Ganga and chose - well you know who. I won't say more but that meant we ended up with a large, efficient army in 1947.
     
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  5. M. Sarmad

    M. Sarmad SENIOR MEMBER

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    Not India, the USSR

    Hanging around the Soviet neck, the "albatross" of Islam,
    as Wali Khan puts it

    The "theory" goes like this:


    The British created Jihadis , they also created Pakistan ; hanging around the Soviet neck, the "albatross" of Islam !!


    If the British policy is closely examined, it becomes apparent that it was based on generating hatred between Muslims and Hindus. The biggest problem confronting the British was the ninety-two per cent Muslim population in the NWFP. The location of this Province was itself a critical factor. Although the expanse of the British Empire was such that the sun never set at once on its every part, they considered the Frontier their horizon because here they were pitted against a well-matched enemy. It bordered on Russia, where the Czarist empire extended to the river Amu in Afghanistan. After the Soviet Revolution of 1917 the British had to face several problems. River Amu, which until now was a geographical boundary, became an ideological boundary as well. In order to protect themselves from this ideological revolution, the British felt the need to create a counter ideology.

    What ideology? During the First World War, the world saw the British make a vitriolic attack upon Islamic unity. In India power was seized from Muslim rulers. Having taken the ocean route to India, the British had, with their own eyes, seen the sweep of Islamic influence. Muslims dominated the entire area from the Balkan States to the Chinese border. On the other side they were spread from North Africa to the mid-West. The most potent Islamic power was the Ottoman Empire in Turkey. The British realized that they had to storm this entire Islamic bastion before they could hope to rest in peace. This was the only way to grab India's tremendous wealth. By the end of the first war the British had crushed the formidable Ottoman Empire, carved up its exemplary Islamic unity, and installed their puppets upon the pieces of broken territory.

    At the end of the war, the British were pleased to see how effectively they had stemmed the Islamic tide from the Turkish side. But now they were faced with the Russian revolution. All the capitalist nations including the British, tried their best to nip this revolution in the bud. First they conspired with counter revolutionaries. When this failed they imposed sanctions against the USSR. They hoped to destroy the revolution by hurting the economy. This too did not work. Now the British were in a panic, they had to think of a new technique for countering this idealism. At last they reached the conclusion that no matter what their modus operandi, there was only one missile that would work—Islam.

    Islam and Communism could be used in hostile positions on this political chessboard, while the British master minded the game. Thus they were forced into strengthening the very Islam they had destroyed by defeating the Turks and other Islamic nations. They, however, feared that if the true Islamic spirit was kindled, it would cause great harm to the "infidels". Another difficulty was that only recently they had waged an open battle with the Islamic Khilafat.

    Clearly, they did not have any use for the real Islam. They wanted an Islam which would align with their capitalist colonial empire and become an ideological weapon for them. They wanted to use Islam as a military crescent which stretched
    from Turkey to the Chinese border, and which could be strung around the neck of the USSR.

    To strengthen and complete the crescent an Islamic stronghold had to be created from Turkey and Iran right up to the China border. To achieve this, it was essential to separate, in the name of Islam, the northern part of India which bordered on the Russian territory. This was expected to serve the dual purpose of protecting the British from the USSR, and of continuing their colonial regime over India. The British were anxiously seeking allies for this venture.The British were using Islam to save their Empire. The Congress was neither interested in opposing Russia nor was willing to do so.





    The Diaries of Sir George Cunningham:

    Since the entire policy of the British was based on Islam, therefore, it is important to record the diaries in detail. This will further inform the people how the British used these so-called devotees of Islam, followers of the Prophet, and inheritors of Namaz to serve their ends. And their entire faith was sold cheap.


    George Cunningham's diaries are a shocking record of men nurtured at the excellent Islamic school at Deoband, who were busy serving the British. With the Holy Book in their hand and the Tasbih strung around their neck, these pilgrims set out to spread me word of colonialism,British Imperialism, and, for a few pieces of silver, agreed to serve as the custodians of slavery for the Indian people.

    Sir George Cunningham's diaries are available at the India Office Library, London. If someone needs proof or wants to investigate further, that is where he should look.

    The British policy of communalism could not work in the Frontier Province. Here, Muslims were in such an overwhelming majority that they were not afraid of any other community. Secondly, the Pakhtoons were so confident of their own strength that no one could impose any unwanted policy on them.

    It became obvious that any people who were ready to tackle a strong, cruel and oppressive race like the British could not be cowed down. Therefore, the British generally sought out the Maulanas; and in the tribal areas and Afghanistan, they especially combined forces with the Maulanas. These religious leaders were expected, to align with the British against Russia. During the Russian Revolution of 1917, the British realized that along with the military strength a new ideology had emerged. Their experienced eye focused on Islam as the only way to confront and confound the ideological strength of the Russians. When faced with a real danger in the person of Amir Amanullah Khan, they used Islam against Muslims. With utmost cunning, Islam was used against a Pakhtoon ruler and the Muslims of Afghanistan. When Hitler's armies darkened European borders, the British, once again, found their boundaries endangered. At that lime we witnessed Islam being used in India to further British interest. It served as a useful ideological weapon against the USSR. During turbulent times in the Frontier Province, the British once again used Islam . Islam as a political force was strengthened not only in the Frontier Province, but also in the tribal areas and in Afghanistan.


    Cunningham wrote that Kuli Khan was being used as the Mullah liaison. He was commissioned to work secretly with the tribal Mullahs and with others who were not prepared to come out in open support. It was a simple case of establishing an Islamic stronghold to combat the Kafirs including the Bolsheviks. The first Mullah recruited by Cunningham was Mullah Marwat. He was formerly connected with the Khaksar movement. Kuli Khan assured him that the only way he could serve Islam was by raising the slogan of Jihad against the enemies of Islam. Through Mullah Marwat, Kuli Khan established relations with the office bearers of the Jamiat-u-Ulema-e-Sarhad, and their supporters in India

    These Mullahs, many of whom had consistently been anti-British, began to speak and write against the Russians and Germans. Subsidies were paid to all Mullahs through Mullah Marwat.

    It was the responsibility of these Mullahs to tell the nation that since the British were believers in the book, Ahl-e Kitaab, even marriage with them was legal. On the other hand, the Russians were Bolsheviks; not only did they not believe in a revealed book, they did not believe in the existence of God. Therefore, the British and the Muslims were united in their common aspiration to fight this infidel race. They were required to continually remind the Muslims that enlisting in the British Army and fighting along with the British is a service to Islam.

    Cunningham records that he persuaded the leaders of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Sarhad to go to Waziristan and convince Faqir Ipi that since the British were at war against the Germans and Italians, Faqir should not bother them because they were now fighting against an infidel race. Their war, in its own way, was a Jihad, therefore, Faqir's Jehad against them should be called off. The British were conducting this intrigue with utmost secrecy. Their enemies had no suspicion that such documents and letters were being exchanged. Cunningham was happy that Faqir’s deputy, Mohammad Waris' letter written to Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Sarhad was friendly in tone. It became evident that Faqir and his companions had no inkling that the Mullahs were accomplices of the British, with explicit instructions from them.

    .
    Cunningham made three groups among the Maulanas. The smaller Mullahs were handed to the local Khans. Those slightly superior in rank reported through the Deputy Commissioners. The senior ones had a direct line to the Governor Cunningham:

    " I have not been in touch with any of the smaller Mullahs myself. I have done it through me following agents with whom practically all my connections have been verbal, as little is put on paper as possible. Ghulam Haider of Sherpao village…he told me that he thought he could work through about nine or ten Mullahs including those of the following villages: Razzar, Kot, Tarnab, Tongi, Utmanzai and Umarzai later Prang and Charsadda. "

    Cunningham wrote that he had asked Ghulam Haider of Sherpao village to meet each Mullah on an individual basis, prepare him to serve the true cause of Islam, give him forty fifty rupees, tell him that he will receive another visit after four months, at which time he should be prepared to brief the authorities about his activities to date. Cunningham asked the Khan Bahadur to hint to the Mullahs that if their work proves satisfactory they could expect a government pension. In return, Khan Bahadur told Cunningham that certain Mullahs were most untrustworthy. Better, if they were called in each month, but they should be well paid. Cunningham said that he had given Ghulam Haider of Sherpao village Rs 600. The list of Mullahs from districts Naushera and Peshawar was handed to the Deputy Commissioner, Iskander Mirza.

    The Mullahs of Swat, Baneer, Mardan and Rani Zai were the responsibility of the Prime Minister of Swat, Hazrat Ali. Cunningham wrote, "The Wazir-i-Azam [Hazrat Ali of Swat] sent me a list of the Mullahs through whom he is working. He is paying them an average of Rs 15.00 per month."

    This was unfair, for the Mullahs of Hashtnagar and Doaba were paid only Rs 10 per month. The Mullahs of Kohat were the responsibility of the Deputy Commissioner of that area. The Mullahs of Bannu were entrusted to Nawab Zafar Khan and Taj Ali. The latter was Khan Bahadur Ghulam Haider's son.

    Cunningham had given Rs 600 to the Deputy Commissioner of Dera Ismail Khan, Mohammad Aslam, to pass along to three spiritual leaders of that area, Ama Khel Faqir, Pir Musa, and Pir Zakoori; two hundred rupees a piece. They were given the assurance that if their work was satisfactory they could get a raise!

    Regarding Syed Abdul Jabbar of Satana, Cunningham wrote that he was connected with Hyderabad Deccan, and waspaid by the Prime Minister, Sir Akbar Hydari. That Hyderabad would pay for the work that was done for the British wasperfectly acceptable to Cunningham. He reports that Khan informed him that work was successfully completed at Sawabi,and that he had sent his cousin to look after the affairs of Bajaur. The Afridi Mullahs of Khyber were the responsibility of the political agent, Bacon. Cunningham had a long standing relationship with Maulvi Barkatullah, the leader of the Mujahideen:

    My arrangement uptil now with him [Maulvi Barkatullah of Asmos] has been that he comes to see me once or twice a year. Barkatullah said he could also do a good deal through ten or twelve Maulvis in different places throughout Bajaur Mohmand country.... I paid him Rs 1000. I asked him to recruit ten or twelve Maulvis from Bajaur within this amount, and contact me in a couple of months.

    Cunningham, then gave a detailed account of the activities of Kuli Khan and the Maulanas. It seems that a lot of work was accomplished through the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Hind. They organized several assemblies, passed a few motions, printed pamphlets and made contacts by touring various areas. In Cunningham's records there is evidence of anti-Congress propaganda along with anti-war statements. "Maulana Mohammad Shuaib toured the Mardan district, condemning Satyagraha. A pamphlet by Maulana Midra ullah condemned war situation and was anti-Congress."



    Cunningham wrote that the Pir of Musa Zai came to visit him at Peshawar. He was friendly with Sher Ali. The latter was able to enlist the support of the Pir Taunsa. He had agreed to go along with him but unfortunately for him became involved in a civil suit.

    In Khyber the political agent entrusted his work to Maulana Abdul Baqi. He placed implicit trust in him and claimed to have given him Rs 1000.

    When the war broke out and Hitler became the supreme dictator, the British had to face defeat from all directions. They became concerned that the USSR, taking advantage of the situation, may move towards India. To forestall this possibility the Jamiat-ul-Ulema declared at their annual general meeting that if Russia attacked Afghanistan it was the duty of all Muslims to Join the Jehad against them. When the British were satisfied that there was no fear from Russia, Cunningham issued an edict, "I advised Kuli Khan to modify his anti Bolshevik propaganda and to concentrate more on propaganda against Germany and Italy


    It is difficult to conceive how a true Muslim could bear to side with his sworn enemies. Right from the time of Sultan Salahuddin until the Ottoman Empire, the British had routed the Muslims. The British-Indian army had showered the Great Mosque with bullets.

    They had seized the throne from the Mughal Emperors. The memory of their treatment of the last Mughal Emperor, Bahadur Shah Zafar, and his children will long linger in human memory. Then, before the very eyes of their brethren in the Frontier Province, how badly they treated the Pakhtoons in Afghanistan. Amir Dost Mohammad Khan, Amir Sher AH Khan, and, finally, Amir Amanullah Khan, all these Muslims were destroyed by the British. Were the Mullahs unaware of all the atrocities inflicted by the British on the Khudai Khidmatgars from 1930 onwards? Their bombing and attacks on the tribal areas were no secret for the Mullahs, and neither was their military action on Wazir, Masood, Afridi and Momand. The war against true believers and Mujahids like Haji Sahib Turang Zai and Faqir Ipi was inspired and instigated by the British.

    The Mullahs were concerned neither with Islam, nor Quran, nor with the faith itself. These followers of the Holy Prophet were busy selling religion for ten or fifteen rupees a month. The British were their Muftis and Qazis. Their religious sanction came from the British. Having raised the sword in the name of Islam, they were prepared to pounce upon the "enemy" at the slightest nod from the British. If the British called the Russians "infidels", the Mullahs echoed "Yes". If the British declared the same for the Germans, the Mullah's nodded in agreement although the Germans like the English were Ahl e Kitaab. The Mullahs did not concern themselves with the principles: they waited upon the pleasure of the British. When it was a question of damning Italy, the Mullahs echoed the British sentiment without recognizing that Rome was the seat of Christianity, and Vatican city, residence of the Pope.

    Cunningham wrote:

    "Wazir-i-Aam of Swat is now employing eighteen Mullahs at Mardan and thirty two at Pir Baba Ziarat, paying each one of them thirty rupees per month."


    Cunningham further wrote that Maulana Mohammad Shuaib and Maulana Midrarullah came to see him at Nathiagalli. They brought a detailed, Urdu pamphlet which was intended for distribution in the districts (Zillahs) and tribal areas. It was an excellent pamphlet; anti-Congress, anti-Japan and anti-Germany. What better proof could there be that these Mullahs wanted to "serve" Islam, and in what better way could they "serve" it than to perform Jehad with the militancy of their pen? They pronounced Islamic Judgements (Fatwas), but these were first approved by the British before they were announced:

    Maulana Mohammad Shuaib and Maulana Midrarullah came to see me at Nathiagalli on the 26th August and produced a long draft in Urdu of the pamphlet which they proposed to issue both in the Districts and in Tribal Territories; all good anti-Congress, anti-Japanese and anti-Marxist stuff. They were extremely friendly.

    The British did Islam a good turn by recording the names and addresses of these Mullahs. There were twenty-four Mullahs from the Peshawar district, of whom six were from the city of Peshawar, thirteen from the Tehsil Charsadda, three from Tehsil Naushera, and eighteen from Mardan and Sawabi. And so it goes. It is humiliating to read how these interpreters of religion sold their conscience to the political agents and bartered Islam for a few pieces of silver! It is further painful to see proof of their false Judgements (Fatwas) upon true sons and patriots of India. What amazing manipulations! To preserve their imperial regime the British were able to raise and organize a band of servile Muslims who never demanded a free India. On the contrary they resisted the freedom movement, and fully supported the British, confident of material support from them and moral support from their so-called interpretation of Islam.

    The British strategy was to befriend those families whose heads were involved in the freedom struggle. The two most important persons fighting the Jehad against the British were Faqir of Ipi and Mullah Pawandah. Another crucial link was Haji Sahib Turangzai of Momand. The British were most interested in ingratiating themselves with these three individuals. And their greatest triumph was to win over the sons of these valiant patriots. Mullah Pawandah's son Fazal Din
    and Haji Turangzai's son Padsha Gul. If one were to assess the state of things it becomes apparent that there were very few influential persons in the districts and tribes whom the British had not obtained for a price. After the death of Haji SahibTurangzai and Mullah Pawandah, Faqir was the only stalwart whom they could not buy!

    An interesting incident occurred when, after the outbreak of the war in Europe, the British tried to persuade the Afghans to throw out the Germans. To pressurize the Afghans, they invited Shami Pir to the tribal territory, instructing him to incite the people against the royal family of Afghanistan. When the British were satisfied that the task had been successfully completed, they called Shami Pir to the Vana cantonment in Waziristan. They settled with him for £25,000. Shami Pir performed a disappearing trick! Having seen this task successfully completed the Secretary of State for India was thrilled. He asked the Viceroy to make a similar deal with Faqir. The Viceroy's reply is dated 14 July 1938. "There is, I fear, no possible chance in dealing with him on the same basis as Shami Pir. He is not only implacable, but also completely incorruptible. Who would rid me of this turbulent priest?"






    As soon as the USSR. attacked and ravaged Germany, and drove the Germans back to Berlin, the British realized that the USSR was still a formidable enemy. Although their entire country was pillaged, their cities destroyed, and two crore Russians wiped out, the USSR still had the strength to chase away the Germans. This compelled the British to, once again, turn their minds to building a Military Crescent against the USSR. Knowing how powerful the Congress was, the British thought it better to allow Afghanistan to regain Pakhtoon territory than hand over the whole of India to the Congress.This would have two advantages. First, India would be deprived of a natural defence by losing the mountain range on its Northern Frontier. This loss of a natural geographical border would seriously hurt India. The British knew how essential it was to control the Northern Passes. If the Afghans ruled this area, India would never be able to rest with ease. Secondly, Afghanistan would become a British ally, and there would be many occasions to repay the friendship. But the victory of the USSR entailed a change of heart. Once again, they regretted their contemplated magnanimity towards Afghanistan. The question arose how to combat the USSR? In his diary, Wavell explained this issue in detail. Anyone who has not read Wavell’s diaries will find it difficult to understand his policies

    Wavell's scheme was as follows: The disputed areas between the Congress and the Muslim League were located on the border. The Pakistan scheme was divided into two parts. North West and North East. These were areas with a Muslim majority. Wavell suggested that the areas with a Congress majority should be handed over to them and be given complete autonomy. The British, along with their army, civil servants, and families should move into areas with a Muslim majority.Since Wavell was a professional soldier he knew that if the North East and North West were separated from India and left under British control, what effect would it have upon the Indian defence policy? The territories were specified; in the East,Bengal and Assam, in the West, the Frontier Province, Punjab and Sind. Delhi would be under direct British control and the rest would go to the Congress. At the end he stated that it was likely that the Muslim League would not object. Then he went a step further, "In fact the Muslim League would presumably welcome the plan." Wavell then called Sir Feroz Khan Noon and asked him to find out his leaders' reaction to this plan. He returned with the answer that the League had no objection.






    On 1 May 1947 two Americans, Ronald A. Hare, Head of the Division of South Asian Affairs, and Thomas E. Weil, Second Secretary of U.S. Embassy in India, visited Jinnah. A detailed account of this visit was sent by the American Charge D' Affairs to Marshall, the Secretary of State. According to this account Jinnah stated that under no condition was he prepared to accept the scheme for a united and federated India. The Muslim League had decided to insist upon the creation of Pakistan:

    He [Jinnah] sought to impress on his visitors that the emergence of an independent, sovereign Pakistan would be in consonance with American interests. Pakistan would be a Muslim country. Muslim countries stand together against Russian aggression. In that endeavour they would look to the United States for assistance, he added. [Venkataraman, American Role in Pakistan,p.1]

    This is a variation on the old British game of hanging around the Soviet neck, the "albatross" of Islam

    Jinnah was trying to persuade the United States that it was politically expedient to build an Islamic bastion against Russians. If India was allowed to remain unified then the bastion stretching from Turkey to China would be incomplete. This message was being communicated by Jinnah through every American Agent. The slogan was,


    "Create Pakistan and save the western world!"


    (Excerpts from "Facts are Facts" by Wali Khan)
     
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  6. PAKISTANFOREVER

    PAKISTANFOREVER ELITE MEMBER

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    I love reading your posts. You make a lot of sense.
     
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  7. niaz

    niaz PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Regret to disagree.

    It is alleged that British supported formation of Muslim League to lessen the popularity of the Indian National Congress party. The allegation may or may not be true. But then Allan Octavian Hume, a British civil servant actively helped in the creation of the Indian National Congress in 1885 out of the members of the Indian Theosophical Society such as Dadabhoy Naoroji, Womesh Chandra Banerjee & Wacha Dinshaw etc. Would you call India also a creation of the British?

    To the best my knowledge, Allama Iqbal & MA Jinnah were essentially looking to safeguard the Muslim minority. Quaid had agreed to be part of the united India in 1946. It was Pundit Nehru who insisted on being the first Prime Minister of India which caused partition and thus created Pakistan.

    Understand your ex foreign Minister Jaswant Singh confirmed this in his book. However you are free to presume whatever suits your fancy.
     
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  8. dadeechi

    dadeechi BANNED

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    They did not build them for Indians rather for themselves.

    The whole process of India's and Pakistan's independence was a well played act by the British to divide and delay the Independence. This was hatched to counter and hijack the Indian Independence movement that started in 1857.

    Dadabhai Naoroji was a Gujarati-speaking Parsi British MP who founded Indian National Congress

    Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a Gujarati Parsi Lawyer trained in London and had a soft corner for Ahmadiyyas

    Gandhi was a Gujarati-speaking lawyer trained in London

    Do you think Indian flag was a unique?



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    Dadabhai Naoroji , Gandhi, Jinnah , Tagore, Ambedkar all have British connection.


    Nehru, Vivekananda, Tata were also Freemasons
    PTI
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    • [​IMG]
      A file photo of Swami Vivekananda. Photo: The Hindu Photo Archives
    • [​IMG]
      A file photo of J.R.D Tata. Photo: The Hindu Photo Archives
    • [​IMG]
      A file photo of Motilal Nehru. Photo: The Hindu Photo Archives

    New Delhi, Dec 25:
    They are one of the world’s oldest secretive societies whose members included Motilal Nehru, Vivekananda, JRD Tata, King George VI and George Washington, among others. Their temples and lodges are specimens of grand architecture and their arcane rituals have inspired as much curiosity as fear. They are the Freemasons.

    Freemasonry, an esoteric fraternity which owes its origin in the late 16th to 17th century in Scotland and England came to India through the East India Company in the early 18th century. They are known by their most recognisable symbol of an interlaced ‘Square and Compass’, found on the facade of all Freemason’s Hall.

    The Grand Lodge of India (GLI) is the main governing body of Freemasonry within India. It was officially constituted on November 24, 1961 and celebrated its Golden Jubilee last year.

    Before the establishment of its own order there were three delegations from the Grand Lodge of Scotland, Grand Lodge of Ireland and Grand Lodge of England.

    “Our first lodge was a military one established by the EIC in 1730. After the British took it back to England post-Independence, the oldest surviving lodge, now in India is the Calcutta’s Freemason’s Hall, known as ‘The Star in the East’,” Ambarish Singh Roy, a Freemason and Assistant Regional Grand Secretary, Regional Grand Lodge of Eastern India said.

    The fraternity is administratively organised into independent Grand Lodges or sometimes Orients, each of which governs its own jurisdiction, which consists of subordinate or daughter Lodges. Grand Lodges are independent and sovereign bodies that govern Masonry in a given country, state, or geographical area (termed a jurisdiction).

    Made famous by the bestsellers of Dan Brown, like ‘The Da Vinci Code’, the Freemasons society commands a global membership of over 6 millions and their number in India is only growing. Their secret and elaborate rituals involve a checkered-board floor and their lodges are run well by ‘Grand Masters’.

    India’s first President Rajendra Prasad, first Vice-President S Radhakrishnan, Sir Phirozeshah Mehta, C Rajagopalachari, Sir Jamsetjee Jeejeebhoy, the Nawab Of Pataudi Mansur Ali Khan, Maharaja Jivaji Rao Scindia, among other eminent Indians, were also Freemasons, according to information on the Regional Grand Lodge of North India.

    Ambarish and other Freemasons from around the world participated in their 12th World Conference and 51st Grand Festival of India organised recently in South India.

    The two-day conference in Mahabalipuram saw around 37 Grand Masters from their respective Lodges and carried the theme of “The Role of Freemasonry in Universal Peacekeeping”.

    The conference was followed by a Grand Festival in Chennai which ended with the formal induction of new Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of India.

    “RW Bro Vasudev Masurekar took over the charge of the next Grand Master from MW Bro Capt Dr B Balaram Biswakumar in a formal ceremony that was held during the festival,” B Kamakoti, Grand Secretary said.

    Freemasons around the world though do not operate under an over-arching body they recognise and derecognise each other. Each country has one central Grand Lodge which is run by a Grand Master elected every three year.

    “At the conference only those Lodges were invited which are in ‘amity with each other’ which means those that recognise each other. Also, during a world conference only the Grand Masters (GMs) are allowed to speak or present papers,” Kamakoti added.

    The Grand Secretary affirmed that now with so many literature and cinema based on or featuring Freemasonry, whatever myths that been associate with it, must been dispelled.

    “I believe whatever myths people had associated with Freemasonry have been dispelled now with so many books and movies, having come out and I feel really sorry for those who say, who do not know or have heard of this,” Kamakoti added.

    Well, despite their presence with architecturally striking buildings bearing the ‘Square and Compass’, in almost all major cities in India, Freemasonry has still remained a somewhat esoteric and a mythical term. But its members say, they brush by it almost everyday albeit unwittingly.

    “The iconic Rashtrapati Bhavan (Viceroy’s House) has Masonic signatures as many British kings were Freemasons. In fact, the plan of the creation of the New Delhi capital has Masonry embedded in it.

    Even, the Jantar Mantar has Masonic elements. We can see it, a layman cannot,” added Roy who said Freemasonry involves a lot of study on astronomy as well.

    Asked if Freemasonry is present in Pakistan, the Grand Lodge of India informed that it existed earlier before being disbanded by ex-Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and ex-President Zia-ul Haq.

    “We did had Freemasonry in Pakistan but it was disbanded during the reign of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Zia-ul Haq and now those building are being used as government bungalows and post-offices, among others,” Roy added.

    “The Goshamal Baradari in Hyderabad, built in 1682 by Sultan Abul Hassan Tanasha, is the oldest building used as a Masonic Temple in India. It was donated to the fraternity in 1872 by the Nizam of Hyderabad,” Roy said expounding on the architectural heritage of Freemasonry in India.

    The organisers believed that Freemasonry would only rise in popularity from here and cited the

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...-tata-were-also-freemasons/article4237921.ece
     
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  9. Oscar

    Oscar ADVISORS

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    The odds against Pakistan are Pakistanis themselves. We are the vermin, we are the termites eating away at M.A Jinnah's gift.
     
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  10. PAKISTANFOREVER

    PAKISTANFOREVER ELITE MEMBER

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    I'll try to be an optimist and say it's not all Pakistanis but a significant proportion unfortunately.
     
  11. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

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    Your analysis is correct, but perhaps not your conclusions.

    Please consider three points. You may find that some of your conclusions merit review.

    The fact that the Army Pakistan 'inherited' a battle-hardened Army is correct; it was, however, faced by an equally battle-hardened Army across its border, and therefore gained no special advantage.

    As you have pointed out, it did have an impact on the Pakistani state, since it stood out as an island of stability and of tradition and heritage in a chaotic situation. A situation where the priceless legacy gifted by a titan among men was lost by his petty minded succession, something that Oscar has pointed out elsewhere.

    Your distaste for the repeated and relentless attempts to acquire 'Pakistan' history as part of an all-encompassing 'Indian' history is understandable, although gentle derision might have been a more appropriate answer to the shrill cries of the mob of trained_but_uneducated technicians that form the bulk of the Indian middle class, and the overwhelming majority of 'bhakts'.

    This distaste has an effect on your analysis, and that is regrettable. It leads you to overlook the very different path followed on the Indian side until very recently: the firm subordination of the military to the civil, a development that WAJsal has not failed to notice and to point out.

    The third point to be considered is that McMunn taking a racist and essentially incorrect stand does not justify a subsequent conclusion that he was right and that his predecessors and the battle record of the previous century or more was completely mythical or that it was skewed in some way. His discrimination against Banglas, Biharis, Tamils, Orrissans (sic), Gujjis (sic), Assamese and "all the rest of Indian untouchables of Ganga" was deliberate and not based on the soldierly qualities, or the lack of soldierly qualities of those ethnic groups. Consider the following:
    1. Starting from the end of your statement, the bulk of the British Indian Army, under the East India Company, were formed of high-caste Brahmins and Bhumihars, not the 'untouchables' that you refer to. That reference is itself a curious usage, as if it has any meaning. It might have meaning, to a bigoted 'bhakt' perhaps, but why does it find a place in your argument? Mangal Pandey and the 'Pandys' that the British referred to will illustrate the point; so, too, will the names of the caste regiments of John Company, and you might also like to take a look at Major Amin's analysis of caste in the Indian Army and the results in battle, before and after the 'martial races' theory took a grip;
    2. The Assamese were not backward fighters, and held off the Mughals, whose armies were largely constituted of precisely those martial races that McMunn glorified. It is bad history to think of them as unable to form military formations, but that bad example is repeated again and again;
    3. I have nothing to say about the Gujjis, except that I wish that you would not weaken your argument by using deprecatory diminutives; in your native Britain, you must have noticed the bigotry underlying such diminutives;
    4. The Orissans, or Oriyas, at one time dominated most of India, including the regions with large concentrations of martial races; no race is incapable of military domination, if the condition of society in its own domain and in proximate domains is taken into account. Considering their present condition as a permanent assessment of their martial capability or their martial potential is as mistaken as taking Italian performance during the second World War as illustrative of their capability; Roman history would tell us differently, and it would also remind us that the most martial races have fallen into bad days. Not just Roman history: Greek, Egyptian, Slavic, Spanish, French, Belgian, Dutch history would tell us the same story;
    5. It is really strange that you deprecate the Tamils. They are among the best soldier material. Please look carefully at their past and recent records, and re-consider; without wishing to exaggerate, I would rate them right up there with the most martial of races in south, central and west Asia, given proper motivation, equipment and leadership;
    6. If anything exceeds one's surprise at your dismissal of the Tamils, it is your bracketing them with Biharis in a list of faint contempt - well, perhaps not too faint! You will find that Dutch military historians of south Asian military history ( a recent school, but very well informed with well-researched positions) consider them to have been the backbone of south Asian armies in the northern parts of India for centuries;
    7. You may be right in your characterisation of 'Banglas', although the records of gallantry in recent times tells an entirely different tale. It is appropriate that others, other than I, should consider this race and its competence, rather than my doing so.
    I believe that you wrote what you did in a fit of spleen, provoked and annoyed by the usual plethora of 'bhakts' writing nonsense and presenting fatuous arguments. Anybody who has carefully read your posts (and other sources) will know that you are no shallow hyper-patriot dependent on the power of your lungs to make your points. May I respectfully and humbly ask you to go through the facts, and recognise that 'bhakts' are bad, but neither caste nor ethnicity is a good index of martial capability and competence.
     
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  12. niaz

    niaz PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    The “Martial Race Theory” evolved after the 1857 war of Independence or Mutiny ( as British call it) and was based upon the presumption that population of the North-western portion of Indian subcontinent was source of the best fighting material.

    It is true that generally speaking residents of the North West and of Rajputana were on the average taller and of more robust build than the East & the South. However this should not automatically translate into them being victors on the battle field.

    Undoubtedly, physical strength is important and can be intimidating to the people of the smaller stature. However, there is no substitute for training & discipline as well as weapons technology on the battlefield of today and / or of yore. For example, based upon the skeleton evidence; average Roman soldier was about 5ft 6” tall but they were able to overcome the Gauls & Celts who were much taller and of heavier built. Besides, how can one ignore Vietnam?

    British Army had earlier faced tough fights against the Marathas & the Mysore Nawabs Hyder Ali & Tipu Sultan. Most of the leaders of the 1857 Mutiny were also Maratha war lords. The Martial theory therefore is not based on historical experience. However, the tough resistance faced by the British in the Sikh wars may have had something to do with it.

    My view is that the Punjab & Frontier region remained loyal to the British, and “loyalty” on the battlefield is of utmost important. In addition to being physically robust; people of the Western regions of the subcontinent were also considered more trustworthy and therefore better material for the British Indian army.

    However it is a fact that the Martial race theory was accepted as ‘Truth’ and put into practice following British Indian Army re-organization post 1857.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  13. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    The question here is not to judge the merits of the Martial Race Theory. What however is fact is the British discriminated in favour of a region that would become Pakistan later and this would have profound effeect on Pakistan. The heavy British recruitment from North Punjab, neighbouring KPK would leave a legacy that resonates in Pakistan today - just look at the dominant military recruitment pattern today and it is only slightl;y changed from the British era.

    More to the historical evolution of Pakistan is that in 1947 Pakistan inheritated a huge military and even bigger military tradition built over the preceding century. This assured that in post 1947 the nascent Pakistani state was blessed by a huge oversized *muscle* like Popyeye the sailor. This secured Pakistan's survival as a state despite all the problems and to a degree it still does today.

    Most of the pedigree regiments of Pakistan Army like Baluch, Frontier Force, Lancers etc date from British era. These regiments al;ready had built ilustrious record fighting in WW1 in France, WW2 in Italy etc and were allocated to Pakistan because major portion of manpower was made up of Punjabi Muslims (Potohar), Pashtuns (KPK) and even some from Azad Kashmir.

    Never said they did it for charity. India was made by greed, British greed.

    For gawds sakes man the British made India. They stitched it together from dozens of pieces of land. Withouit them South Asia would have looked like Europe. Lots of states. You are aware that what is now Pakistan was Sikh Empire and independant Sindh in the south? If the British had not moved west this area would never have ended up in British India and yopu would not worry about 2NT or 1947. Even they did divide they united it in the first place and left less fdivisions then if they had not come.



    [​IMG]


    British India 1800

    [​IMG]


    By the time British had finished their project they had joined Burma, Bangladesh, present day India and Pakistan into one empire and you talk of dividing?

    [​IMG]

    @PAKISTANFOREVER
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  14. dadeechi

    dadeechi BANNED

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    Yes they did unite kingdoms of India but they divided it too as a parting shot.