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Pakistan’s political change ‘won’t affect solid friendship with China’

Novus ordu seclorum

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You don't understand what I'm saying... Pakistani Generals are slaves to Washington. Even if China has done nothing against Pakistan, the Pakistani Generals will (with just one letter) stab China in the back.

Every Pakistani General has Children living in America with Green Cards... Not in China. Their houses are in London and New York... Not Beijing and Shanghai.... Get the idea???


Just look at what's happening right now.
You live in the West and call yourself a slave where they have the highest level of freedom and dignity compared to the world.

This is called slavery. Where is the respect for humanity?

 

Clutch

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You live in the West and call yourself a slave where they have the highest level of freedom and dignity compared to the world.

This is called slavery. Where is the respect for humanity?


I'm not a slave here..
Black Lives Matter supporter.

I just happen to be born here. But I don't bend my neck for any Gora.

Besides since I am a Westerner (by your definition)... Then I am your master and you are my little Pakistani slave. So behave. Beggers can't be choosers otherwise my goldly powers will unplug you from your life support... Get it?
 
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SQ8

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Here is a probable scenario in a not so far future...
If the West escalate the Taiwan issue by further arming Taiwan, formally recognizing it an independent nation, and creating a security military pact with it. This then forces China to counter the Western crossing of redlines by conducting a military operation in Taiwan. In essence a not too dissimilar playbook of the current Ukraine-Russia conflict.
1. Will Pakistan side with the Chinese or the Americas?
2. If a "Letter" comes from Washington warning of "grave consequences", "turning Pakistan into the stone age", and "you are either with us or against us".... Will the Pakistani established (i.e Army Generals) turn to America or China?


My bet is that the Pakistani army Generals are beholden upon and indebted to Washington not Beijing. They will not risk the lives of their children living in the West not their fortunes in the West. Their conflict of interest and their corruption will ensure China is stabbed in the back.

It is a sad but confirmed reality based upon the recent 'Letter of Treason' and the sacrificial lamb Imran Khan's removal.

In the past I would have said there are a couple redlines Pakistan establishment will never cross: 1. Betrayed of China 2. The Nuclear Deterrent
I am not so sure about 1 and 2 anymore after the current acts of Treason all around from the Supreme Court and the Establishment. I truely think there is only one real redline in Pakistan that the establishment will never cross.... That is breaking the chains of enslavement from the West and thirst for $$$ and houses in London.... That is they only reason why beggars that can't be choosers allow drone bombs on their own people. And Nawaz's desire to sign the NPT. They have no moral compass. They are all sold out.

My thoughts.
How many generals are there?
How many of them have kids in the US, how many of them must keep their kids & grandkids in Pakistan as well regardless of outcomes, plain wish to study abroad for better education (unless you are contradicting the need for education regardless of the quality of courses in actuarial or nanotechnology in the United States versus Pakistan).

How many were compromised as Generals, as junior officers within the US or inside Pakistan.

One AVM has his son compromised right here in Pakistan and he never went to the US himself…is he an outlier or a common occurrence? Would he have been compromised in the US as well?

Is being compromised by US dollars within Pakistan at a major level more tempting versus a General level where you are already worth quite a bit?

You don't like my post you don't reply. GET IT. Don't try to be condensing with me. See Ya.
I don’t think you should produce any condensate together at all.
 

Char

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Here is a probable scenario in a not so far future...
If the West escalate the Taiwan issue by further arming Taiwan, formally recognizing it an independent nation, and creating a security military pact with it. This then forces China to counter the Western crossing of redlines by conducting a military operation in Taiwan. In essence a not too dissimilar playbook of the current Ukraine-Russia conflict.
1. Will Pakistan side with the Chinese or the Americas?
2. If a "Letter" comes from Washington warning of "grave consequences", "turning Pakistan into the stone age", and "you are either with us or against us".... Will the Pakistani established (i.e Army Generals) turn to America or China?


My bet is that the Pakistani army Generals are beholden upon and indebted to Washington not Beijing. They will not risk the lives of their children living in the West not their fortunes in the West. Their conflict of interest and their corruption will ensure China is stabbed in the back.

It is a sad but confirmed reality based upon the recent 'Letter of Treason' and the sacrificial lamb Imran Khan's removal.

In the past I would have said there are a couple redlines Pakistan establishment will never cross: 1. Betrayed of China 2. The Nuclear Deterrent
I am not so sure about 1 and 2 anymore after the current acts of Treason all around from the Supreme Court and the Establishment. I truely think there is only one real redline in Pakistan that the establishment will never cross.... That is breaking the chains of enslavement from the West and thirst for $$$ and houses in London.... That is they only reason why beggars that can't be choosers allow drone bombs on their own people. And Nawaz's desire to sign the NPT. They have no moral compass. They are all sold out.

My thoughts.

The pessimists are right, but the optimists will win in the end.
 

Novus ordu seclorum

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I'm not a slave here..
Black Lives Matter supporter.

I just happen to be born here. But I don't bend my neck for any Gora.

Besides since I am a Westerner (by your definition)... Then I am your master and you are my little pakkistani slave. So behave. Beggers can't be choosers otherwise my goldly powers will unplug you from your life support... Get it?

You are incoherent. You are saying you were born in the West as a slave and that servitude to atheist, communist China makes you free. WTH.
 

martinlucas

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It is true that Pakistan’s political parties are not as strong as China, especially as China has secured CPEC deals and Pakistan has not yet approved CPEC projects. However, Pakistan’s military has promised to protect the CPEC, which will not change regardless of the new Pakistani prime minister. So the China’s friendly relationship with Pakistan will not change.
 

insight-out

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Well, what else would you expect? Countries never openly/overtly interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. That's just how international relations work.

We work with whoever is in power in other countries. And they work with whoever is in power in our country. Nothing to see here
 

Chak Bamu

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Here is a probable scenario in a not so far future...
If the West escalate the Taiwan issue by further arming Taiwan, formally recognizing it an independent nation, and creating a security military pact with it. This then forces China to counter the Western crossing of redlines by conducting a military operation in Taiwan. In essence a not too dissimilar playbook of the current Ukraine-Russia conflict.
1. Will Pakistan side with the Chinese or the Americas?
2. If a "Letter" comes from Washington warning of "grave consequences", "turning Pakistan into the stone age", and "you are either with us or against us".... Will the Pakistani established (i.e Army Generals) turn to America or China?


My bet is that the Pakistani army Generals are beholden upon and indebted to Washington not Beijing. They will not risk the lives of their children living in the West not their fortunes in the West. Their conflict of interest and their corruption will ensure China is stabbed in the back.

It is a sad but confirmed reality based upon the recent 'Letter of Treason' and the sacrificial lamb Imran Khan's removal.

In the past I would have said there are a couple redlines Pakistan establishment will never cross: 1. Betrayed of China 2. The Nuclear Deterrent
I am not so sure about 1 and 2 anymore after the current acts of Treason all around from the Supreme Court and the Establishment. I truely think there is only one real redline in Pakistan that the establishment will never cross.... That is breaking the chains of enslavement from the West and thirst for $$$ and houses in London.... That is they only reason why beggars that can't be choosers allow drone bombs on their own people. And Nawaz's desire to sign the NPT. They have no moral compass. They are all sold out.

My thoughts.
OK. I can work with this now.

Two things need to happen before Pakistan can openly defy the Americans:

1. Diversified export markets. Currently USA & EU are our biggest markets & Pakistan can not afford disruption of trade because we earn most of our foreign exchange from these two. In future China could open up its market as it transitions from a manufacturing to more of a services economy. I think Chinese friends are mindful of this aspect.

2. We need to have secure energy supplies. No foreign exchange = no oil supplied = economy comes to a stop = crops begin to fail = mass unrest. As long as Pakistan has poor HDI & only competes in low-value textile market, then you can kiss any independence of USD goodbye.

3. If there is an attack on Taiwan, Do not expect Pakistan to play an active role. Its not as though China would need Pakistan's help. The most we could do is heat up the LOC in Kashmir a bit & raise temperature with India as a warning that India not disrupt China. Even such a course of action would come with costs. If there is a case of full-blown sanctions, then Pakistan (as it is in its current state) would be in very difficult position. So, let us hope that China gets its objective via diplomacy instead of war.
 

Clutch

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. If there is an attack on Taiwan, Do not expect Pakistan to play an active role. Its not as though China would need Pakistan's help. The most we could do is heat up the LOC in Kashmir a bit & raise temperature with India as a warning that India not disrupt China. Even such a course of action would come with costs. If there is a case of full-blown sanctions, then Pakistan (as it is in its current state) would be in very difficult position. So, let us hope that China gets its objective via diplomacy instead of war.


Great points all around. There really is no decision without some tradeoffs and consequences.

It's point 3 that I would like to pick on; it's not the kinetic support or the direct military support China may seek from Pakistan if (a big if) the Taiwan-China conflict ever comes to the worst case scenario.

As with the Ukraine-Russia conflict, it was the meager diplomatic support that Pakistan gave to Russia (by largely a neutral stance) that was not acceptable to Washington; so too, Pakistan may not have the option of taking a neutral stance in the Taiwan-China conflict. That will be the crossroad I believe Pakistan will not break the chains of beggers-can't-be-choosers from the West. Perhaps for all the reasons you stated or perhaps for the colonial enslavement reasons I gave. India on the other hand balances these conflicts much better.
 

Crimson Blue

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So Modi has congratulated Showbaz on being elected new PM. And US also issued a supportive statement after the election of Showbaz.

However China is still quiet. Not even a twitter message from a lower level Chinese official. Does this signals anything?
 
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satyamev

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I know what you mean, but we are willing to bear any price for our diplomatic principles.

If there may be changes that are not conducive to China in a country, China will interfere in the country's internal affairs at will. So what's the difference between China and USA?

The reason why China hopes to establish a new multipolar world order is that we oppose the status quo of the old order, we oppose Powell's washing powder, and we oppose Bush's freedom to give Afghans with bombs. If China is willing to use the same means to achieve its own goals, there is no need for us to oppose the world of the old order.
In the last 2 weeks imran Khan has praised India multiple times , and not even mentioned China as a positive influence on Pakistan.
If imran comes back to power , i see him engaging with india more substantially, to the detriment of China.
He has seen the light.
 

AZADPAKISTAN2009

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In China they hang corrupt people like Nawaz Sharif or Shobaz sharif if they find out they did corruption on the scale they did

They remove the bad apples really fast in their system so only honest people remain
 

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