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Pakistans Nuclear Arsenal ?? A Handicap OR Strength

Storm Force

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There are 3 different threads strarted bt People celebrating Pakistanis NUCLEAR weapons success.

Some claim nuclear advantage over India ONE even states NUCLEAR advantage over UK.

it seems people FEEL this is some HUGE achievement which has GIVEN PAKISTAN great clout and strength globally.

I ASK THE QUESTION has it made any difference to the PAKISTAN of the 1960S ???

1. Is pakistan considered a more important nation now
2. Does it carry more clout especially in islamic world
3. will it bring india into negotation table
4. HAS IT MADE more countries want to trade with you

I SAY THIS BECAUSE i think the opposite has happened . I think the pakistan without nukes was a far stronger nation

1. Not isolated has they seem now esp from the WEST
2. Stronger econmoically
3. Far more FDI
4. usa ALLY
5. Conventional superior weapons than INDIA


i think nuclear weapons as brought you as much as nukes have brought NORTH KOREA

IE A ISolated and unpredictable state which the GLOBAL FAMILY fears could lead to allsorts of caos..

WORRYING THING IS PAKISTANIS cant see his themselves !!!!!!!!!
 

Horus

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There are 3 different threads strarted bt People celebrating Pakistanis NUCLEAR weapons success.

Some claim nuclear advantage over India ONE even states NUCLEAR advantage over UK.

it seems people FEEL this is some HUGE achievement which has GIVEN PAKISTAN great clout and strength globally.
Long, useless introduction.

I ASK THE QUESTION has it made any difference to the PAKISTAN of the 1960S ???
1. Is pakistan considered a more important nation now
Member of an elite nation of 8 nuclear powers?
2. Does it carry more clout especially in islamic world
Yes, which is why majority of our votes for UNSC seat came from those VERY Islamic countries.

3. will it bring india into negotation table
It, has, it will, only Idiots will deny that fact.

4. HAS IT MADE more countries want to trade with you
Trade has hardly anything to do with Nuclear weapons, so its a wrong question to start with.

I SAY THIS BECAUSE i think the opposite has happened . I think the pakistan without nukes was a far stronger nation
On, the contrary i think it gave us the power to show India where it belongs, and tell the regional bully that we won't EVER be bullied into submission. India can bully, Bangladesh,Nepal,Bhutan,Burma,Sri-Lanka,Maldives but it cant bully Pakistan which gives hope to those states too.

1. Not isolated has they seem now esp from the WEST
Isolated?

2. Stronger econmoically
Economy has nothing to do with Nukes, on paper almost all nuclear powers are fairly well to do states.
3. Far more FDI
FDI hardly has to do ANYTHING with being a nuclear or a non nuclear state.

4. usa ALLY
I spit on that.

5. Conventional superior weapons than INDIA
Conventional, capability doesn't provide the "PUNCH" needed to talk on equal terms, just look at S.korea they can shoot down N.Korean air force in 72 hours and annihilate their Army, only thing that stops them is North's Nuclear weapons.


i think nuclear weapons as brought you as much as nukes have brought NORTH KOREA
Indians love, comparing Pakistan to N.Korea..have fun.

IE A ISolated and unpredictable state which the GLOBAL FAMILY fears could lead to allsorts of caos..
If, you mean India,Israel,USA by "global family" than to hell with ALL of you.

WORRYING THING IS PAKISTANIS cant see his themselves !!!!!!!!!
We, know what we are capable of, If we don't question why India has nuclear weapons, Indians shouldn't do that either about ours. However it only means hardly anything more than sour grapes now. We are a nuclear state, a reality you just have to live with, its a sour fruit you MUST swallow and digest.

"In the beginning they ask you "why are you doing it", In the End they say "how did you do that"..."
 

Jade

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There is one advantage and several disadvantages of the strategy that Pakistan is following

Advantage
1) Some parity with India

Disadvantages
1) With nukes Pakistan becomes a defense force. More it depends on this strategy, less will its propensity to be adventures against India.
2) Kashmir is settled for all. Status quo is the solution.
3) World community doesn't trust Pakistan with nukes, hence a close eye on its nuke arsenals.
4) There is huge danger from the terrorist groups of stealing nukes. Recent attacks by TTP on its army bases has enhanced world concern regarding Pak nukes.
.....
 

Horus

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There is one advantage and several disadvantages of the strategy that Pakistan is following

Advantage
1) Some parity with India
Very generous.

Disadvantages

1) With nukes Pakistan becomes a defense force. More it depends on this strategy, less will its propensity to be adventures against India.
I giggled.

2) Kashmir is settled for all. Status quo is the solution.
Status quo doesn't last for long and Kashmir is NOT settled.

3) World community doesn't trust Pakistan with nukes, hence a close eye on its nuke arsenals.
Those who themselves have 10s of thousands of nukes? enough said!

4) There is huge danger from the terrorist groups of stealing nukes. Recent attacks by TTP on its army bases has enhanced world concern regarding Pak nukes.
.....
Ignorance is a bliss.
 

Bonhomie

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4) There is huge danger from the terrorist groups of stealing nukes. Recent attacks by TTP on its army bases has enhanced world concern regarding Pak nukes.
.....
don't think nukes are kept in places like that :cheesy: and that attack was countered deliberately by PA.
 

Jade

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Very generous.

Disadvantages



I giggled.



Status quo doesn't last for long and Kashmir is NOT settled.



Those who themselves have 10s of thousands of nukes? enough said!



Ignorance is a bliss.
You cannot match India for weapon for weapon, and nukes are just some showpieces, hence Pakistan is becoming a defense force that cannot be take on India outside its border

As regarding Kashmir. Neither Pakistan nor India can be adventures on Kashmir, and India doesn't believe in UN resolutions. So Kashmir is settled.

I giggled when you compare Pakistan with US. US economy is 75 time larger than Pakistan's economy

TTP attacking Pakistan Naval Station Mehran or the recent attack on Pak's air bases are not some media made up story. If TTP has the capacity to attack a high security Naval base, it has the capacity to steal nukes

don't think nukes are kept in places like that :cheesy: and that attack was countered deliberately by PA.
So you think nukes are kept in outer space? :lol: The level of security that guards nukes should be same to the level of security guarding your naval bases.
 

Safriz

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North’s missiles tied to Musharraf blunder KYODO ISLAMABAD – A retired Pakistani nuclear scientist has claimed that former Pakistani leader Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s 1999 military
adventurism in the Kargil region of divided Kashmir failed in part
because the North Korea-aided, nuclear-capable Ghauri missiles he
wanted to deploy then had a faulty guidance system. Speaking on condition of anonymity, the scientist said that during
the Kargil crisis of May-July 1999, Musharraf, who was then army
chief, “wanted to deploy Ghauri missiles, but air went out of his
balloon when the top general in charge of the missile program told
him the missile had a faulty guidance system.” Over a year earlier, on April 6, 1998, Pakistan had carried out what it
described as a successful first test of the intermediate-range ballistic
missile, developed by Khan Research Laboratory with North Korean
assistance. Even Musharraf, who witnessed that Ghauri launch as a local corps
commander, had been led to believe it was a success then, according
to the nuclear scientist, who until recently had long been closely
associated with the country’s nuclear and missile programs. The truth, he said, is that the ballistic missile failed to reach its
predesignated impact point in Pakistan’s southwestern province of
Baluchistan and its debris could not be found — something that
would have undermined the missile’s deterrent effect if it were
made public. Military experts and strategists have pondered why Musharraf,
immediately after he became chief of the army staff in October 1998,
began planning the ill-fated incursions across the volatile Line of
Control in disputed Kashmir, sparking the worst outbreak of fighting
since the India-Pakistan war of 1971 even though he knew Pakistan
could not prevail in an all-out conventional war with its neighbor. During the May-July 1999 conflict, the two sides fought a two-
month limited war in Kargil that led to over 1,200 fatalities and
added to fears of a nuclear showdown before then-U.S. President Bill
Clinton helped broker a ceasefire and Pakistani withdrawal. Musharraf’s gamble in Kargil has since been interpreted by many as
an effort by Pakistan, aside from gaining a tactical advantage by
occupying dominating positions in the Kargil Heights, to test the
deterrence value of its nuclear weapons. The untold story, according to the scientist, is that Musharraf was
unaware of the Ghauri missile’s faulty guidance system even as he
oversaw the covert occupation by Pakistan troops and mujahedeen
“freedom fighters” of the inhospitable, snowbound outposts in Kargil
that the Indian Army had vacated for the winter. He said Musharraf only learned the truth in March 1999 from Lt. Gen.
Zulfikar Khan, who then commanded the army’s Combat Division. Musharraf then ordered another Ghauri test, which took place on
April 14, 1999, just three days after India tested its Agni-2
intermediate-range ballistic missile and several weeks before India
detected the extent of the Pakistani side’s penetration in Kargil. But this test also failed, with the missile overflying its target and
falling across the border in the Sistan region of southeastern Iran, the
scientist said. It, too, was publicly declared a success, however. The scientist’s remarks were corroborated by two other nuclear
scientists and another knowledgeable source who confirmed that
the two missiles tested in 1998 and 1999 both failed to impact at
the predesignated points in Baluchistan. While Pakistan claimed the Ghauri missiles were designed and
produced indigenously, they were actually Nodong missiles supplied
by North Korea and re-engineered in Pakistan to extend their strike
range. The scientist claimed that after the second test, North Koreans were
invited to a meeting at army headquarters in Rawalpindi, where
they were confronted with the fault in their technology. “The North Koreans started talking left and right but were told to
open their eyes and take care of the guidance system in their
Nodong missiles,” said the scientist, who was privy to the meeting. Musharraf, he said, initially wanted to return the Nodong missiles to
North Korea, from which it had imported 40 in knocked down
condition in the mid-1990s. But then the Pakistan Atomic Energy
Commission undertook to replace the guidance with that of the
country’s Chinese-aided Shaheen missile, he said. Last Nov. 28, the improved version of Ghauri was test-fired and the
government — true to form — declared it a success. Soon afterward,
however, it was found to have exploded in midair and rained metal
debris over parts of Sindh Province. Pakistan’s disgraced nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, whose
laboratory develops nuclear warheads for Pakistan’s missiles,
concedes there was a row about the Ghauri’s accuracy. But he ridicules the assertion that Musharraf wanted to return them
over their faulty guidance system, saying, “What difference does it
make if a nuclear-tipped missile falls 1 km left or right of the
predetermined impact point?” Khan claims Musharraf merely sought to return them because
Pakistan had insufficient funds to pay back what it owed for them. The Kargil crisis happened in the wake of six nuclear tests carried out
by Pakistan in May 1998, which triggered sanctions against the
country and led a drastic fall in foreign exchange reserves. Pakistan suffered a serious military and diplomatic setback after
successful Indian military action and intense international pressure
forced it to unconditionally pull back behind the Line of Control as
part of the U.S.-brokered ceasefire. In his autobiography, published in 2006, Musharraf called it a “myth”
that the two sides had come to the brink of nuclear war during the
conflict and dismissed as “preposterous” speculation that Pakistan
was preparing for a possible nuclear strike on India then. “I can also say with authority that in 1999 our nuclear capability
was not yet operational. Merely exploding a bomb does not mean
that you are operationally capable of deploying nuclear force in the
field and delivering a bomb across the border over a selected
target,” he wrote. Critics of Musharraf’s action often refer to the Kargil conflict as a
“misadventure,” saying it was badly conceived and executed, while
he wrongly assumed the world would sit back idly. Instead of considering the Kargil as a blunder, Musharraf, who has
been living in exile since quitting politics in 2008, claims it actually
brought the Kashmir issue back into international focus and helped
pave the way for a solution. However, tension between the nuclear-armed neighbors, which
have fought three wars since partition in 1947, two of them over
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Horus

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You cannot match India for weapon for weapon
We, don't need to. We are not going to Invade India,and our current resources suffice to provide a credible conventional deterrent.

and nukes are just some showpieces,
Only juveniles think so.

hence Pakistan is becoming a defense force that cannot be take on India outside its border
We have been primarily a defensive force.

As regarding Kashmir. Neither Pakistan nor India can be adventures on Kashmir, and India doesn't believe in UN resolutions. So Kashmir is settled
.

Kashmir is far from being settled.

I giggled when you compare Pakistan with US. US economy is 75 time larger than Pakistan's economy
I, have never compared the US with Pakistan on equal terms, there is something wrong with your comprehension.

TTP attacking Pakistan Naval Station Mehran or the recent attack on Pak's air bases are not some media made up story. If TTP has the capacity to attack a high security Naval base, it has the capacity to steal nukes
Ignorance is a bliss 2.0
 

A.Rafay

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There are 3 different threads strarted bt People celebrating Pakistanis NUCLEAR weapons success.

Some claim nuclear advantage over India ONE even states NUCLEAR advantage over UK.

it seems people FEEL this is some HUGE achievement which has GIVEN PAKISTAN great clout and strength globally.

I ASK THE QUESTION has it made any difference to the PAKISTAN of the 1960S ???
Pakistan with Nuclear Power is stronger than the Pakistan of 1960s, It has frightened our neighbour and stopped Pakistan from being Bullied by USA.

1. Is pakistan considered a more important nation now
the USA cant fight the WOT without Pakistans Help and intelligence from ISI

2. Does it carry more clout especially in islamic world
Yes, Islamic Nations see Pakistan as a brother Nuclear Power with Strong Army, KSA, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar often sends their soldeirs to train in Pakistani Military Academies.

3. will it bring india into negotation table
Yes, In vajepayees tenure, India and Pakistan had Dialogues on Kashmir, And in Musharrafs term Also, And in future india has to negotiate with Pakistan

4. HAS IT MADE more countries want to trade with you
Yes trade ties with countries like Russia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Germany, China, srilanka, Afghanistan, S.korea, USA and other European countries have improved.
 

Jade

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We, don't need to. We are not going to Invade India,and our current resources suffice to provide a credible conventional deterrent.



Only juveniles think so.



We have been primarily a defensive force.

.

Kashmir is far from being settled.



I, have never compared the US with Pakistan on equal terms, there is something wrong with your comprehension.



Ignorance is a bliss 2.0
So you are agreeing that Pakistan is defense force.

How many time nukes have been used since they are discovered some 80 years back? So what is juvenile about this?

What makes you think Kashmir is far from settled? Do you think Pakistan has the capability to wage a war against India, then win it and then take over Kashmir? If you think Pakistan can do this, then I have to say “Only juveniles think so”

Who has 10’s of thousands of nukes – US or Russia

Instead of writing “Ignorance is a bliss 2.0”, care to explain why TTP cannot steal nukes? There is every proof that TTP has the capability to take on high security installations.
 

Bonhomie

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TTP attacking Pakistan Naval Station Mehran or the recent attack on Pak's air bases are not some media made up story. If TTP has the capacity to attack a high security Naval base, it has the capacity to steal nukes

So you think nukes are kept in outer space? :lol: The level of security that guards nukes should be same to the level of security guarding your naval bases.
lol that's a good one 'TTP has capacity bla bla bla to steal nukes.. could you be more propagandist than this? I didn't lol'd much.

of-coures you have nothing to back this up besides purely banal assumptions, speculations nothing new here it's been over a decade Indians babbling about how insecure Pakistan is that TTP can buckle up steal nukes oh yeah its that easy essentially you're confusing the lack of knowledge with expertise which is disappointing but clearly fallacious.
 

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