• Thursday, December 5, 2019

Pakistans Nuclear Arsenal ?? A Handicap OR Strength

Discussion in 'Pakistan Strategic Forces' started by Storm Force, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Storm Force

    Storm Force BANNED

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    There are 3 different threads strarted bt People celebrating Pakistanis NUCLEAR weapons success.

    Some claim nuclear advantage over India ONE even states NUCLEAR advantage over UK.

    it seems people FEEL this is some HUGE achievement which has GIVEN PAKISTAN great clout and strength globally.

    I ASK THE QUESTION has it made any difference to the PAKISTAN of the 1960S ???

    1. Is pakistan considered a more important nation now
    2. Does it carry more clout especially in islamic world
    3. will it bring india into negotation table
    4. HAS IT MADE more countries want to trade with you

    I SAY THIS BECAUSE i think the opposite has happened . I think the pakistan without nukes was a far stronger nation

    1. Not isolated has they seem now esp from the WEST
    2. Stronger econmoically
    3. Far more FDI
    4. usa ALLY
    5. Conventional superior weapons than INDIA


    i think nuclear weapons as brought you as much as nukes have brought NORTH KOREA

    IE A ISolated and unpredictable state which the GLOBAL FAMILY fears could lead to allsorts of caos..

    WORRYING THING IS PAKISTANIS cant see his themselves !!!!!!!!!
     
  2. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    Long, useless introduction.

    I ASK THE QUESTION has it made any difference to the PAKISTAN of the 1960S ???
    Member of an elite nation of 8 nuclear powers?
    Yes, which is why majority of our votes for UNSC seat came from those VERY Islamic countries.

    It, has, it will, only Idiots will deny that fact.

    Trade has hardly anything to do with Nuclear weapons, so its a wrong question to start with.

    On, the contrary i think it gave us the power to show India where it belongs, and tell the regional bully that we won't EVER be bullied into submission. India can bully, Bangladesh,Nepal,Bhutan,Burma,Sri-Lanka,Maldives but it cant bully Pakistan which gives hope to those states too.

    Isolated?

    Economy has nothing to do with Nukes, on paper almost all nuclear powers are fairly well to do states.
    FDI hardly has to do ANYTHING with being a nuclear or a non nuclear state.

    I spit on that.

    Conventional, capability doesn't provide the "PUNCH" needed to talk on equal terms, just look at S.korea they can shoot down N.Korean air force in 72 hours and annihilate their Army, only thing that stops them is North's Nuclear weapons.


    Indians love, comparing Pakistan to N.Korea..have fun.

    If, you mean India,Israel,USA by "global family" than to hell with ALL of you.

    We, know what we are capable of, If we don't question why India has nuclear weapons, Indians shouldn't do that either about ours. However it only means hardly anything more than sour grapes now. We are a nuclear state, a reality you just have to live with, its a sour fruit you MUST swallow and digest.

    "In the beginning they ask you "why are you doing it", In the End they say "how did you do that"..."
     
  3. Jade

    Jade SENIOR MEMBER

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    There is one advantage and several disadvantages of the strategy that Pakistan is following

    Advantage
    1) Some parity with India

    Disadvantages
    1) With nukes Pakistan becomes a defense force. More it depends on this strategy, less will its propensity to be adventures against India.
    2) Kashmir is settled for all. Status quo is the solution.
    3) World community doesn't trust Pakistan with nukes, hence a close eye on its nuke arsenals.
    4) There is huge danger from the terrorist groups of stealing nukes. Recent attacks by TTP on its army bases has enhanced world concern regarding Pak nukes.
    .....
     
  4. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    Very generous.

    Disadvantages

    I giggled.

    Status quo doesn't last for long and Kashmir is NOT settled.

    Those who themselves have 10s of thousands of nukes? enough said!

    Ignorance is a bliss.
     
  5. Bonhomie

    Bonhomie FULL MEMBER

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    don't think nukes are kept in places like that :cheesy: and that attack was countered deliberately by PA.
     
  6. S_O_C_O_M

    S_O_C_O_M SENIOR MEMBER

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  7. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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  8. S_O_C_O_M

    S_O_C_O_M SENIOR MEMBER

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    very true.
     
  9. Jade

    Jade SENIOR MEMBER

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    You cannot match India for weapon for weapon, and nukes are just some showpieces, hence Pakistan is becoming a defense force that cannot be take on India outside its border

    As regarding Kashmir. Neither Pakistan nor India can be adventures on Kashmir, and India doesn't believe in UN resolutions. So Kashmir is settled.

    I giggled when you compare Pakistan with US. US economy is 75 time larger than Pakistan's economy

    TTP attacking Pakistan Naval Station Mehran or the recent attack on Pak's air bases are not some media made up story. If TTP has the capacity to attack a high security Naval base, it has the capacity to steal nukes

    So you think nukes are kept in outer space? :lol: The level of security that guards nukes should be same to the level of security guarding your naval bases.
     
  10. Ziras

    Ziras FULL MEMBER

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    North’s missiles tied to Musharraf blunder KYODO ISLAMABAD – A retired Pakistani nuclear scientist has claimed that former Pakistani leader Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s 1999 military
    adventurism in the Kargil region of divided Kashmir failed in part
    because the North Korea-aided, nuclear-capable Ghauri missiles he
    wanted to deploy then had a faulty guidance system. Speaking on condition of anonymity, the scientist said that during
    the Kargil crisis of May-July 1999, Musharraf, who was then army
    chief, “wanted to deploy Ghauri missiles, but air went out of his
    balloon when the top general in charge of the missile program told
    him the missile had a faulty guidance system.” Over a year earlier, on April 6, 1998, Pakistan had carried out what it
    described as a successful first test of the intermediate-range ballistic
    missile, developed by Khan Research Laboratory with North Korean
    assistance. Even Musharraf, who witnessed that Ghauri launch as a local corps
    commander, had been led to believe it was a success then, according
    to the nuclear scientist, who until recently had long been closely
    associated with the country’s nuclear and missile programs. The truth, he said, is that the ballistic missile failed to reach its
    predesignated impact point in Pakistan’s southwestern province of
    Baluchistan and its debris could not be found — something that
    would have undermined the missile’s deterrent effect if it were
    made public. Military experts and strategists have pondered why Musharraf,
    immediately after he became chief of the army staff in October 1998,
    began planning the ill-fated incursions across the volatile Line of
    Control in disputed Kashmir, sparking the worst outbreak of fighting
    since the India-Pakistan war of 1971 even though he knew Pakistan
    could not prevail in an all-out conventional war with its neighbor. During the May-July 1999 conflict, the two sides fought a two-
    month limited war in Kargil that led to over 1,200 fatalities and
    added to fears of a nuclear showdown before then-U.S. President Bill
    Clinton helped broker a ceasefire and Pakistani withdrawal. Musharraf’s gamble in Kargil has since been interpreted by many as
    an effort by Pakistan, aside from gaining a tactical advantage by
    occupying dominating positions in the Kargil Heights, to test the
    deterrence value of its nuclear weapons. The untold story, according to the scientist, is that Musharraf was
    unaware of the Ghauri missile’s faulty guidance system even as he
    oversaw the covert occupation by Pakistan troops and mujahedeen
    “freedom fighters” of the inhospitable, snowbound outposts in Kargil
    that the Indian Army had vacated for the winter. He said Musharraf only learned the truth in March 1999 from Lt. Gen.
    Zulfikar Khan, who then commanded the army’s Combat Division. Musharraf then ordered another Ghauri test, which took place on
    April 14, 1999, just three days after India tested its Agni-2
    intermediate-range ballistic missile and several weeks before India
    detected the extent of the Pakistani side’s penetration in Kargil. But this test also failed, with the missile overflying its target and
    falling across the border in the Sistan region of southeastern Iran, the
    scientist said. It, too, was publicly declared a success, however. The scientist’s remarks were corroborated by two other nuclear
    scientists and another knowledgeable source who confirmed that
    the two missiles tested in 1998 and 1999 both failed to impact at
    the predesignated points in Baluchistan. While Pakistan claimed the Ghauri missiles were designed and
    produced indigenously, they were actually Nodong missiles supplied
    by North Korea and re-engineered in Pakistan to extend their strike
    range. The scientist claimed that after the second test, North Koreans were
    invited to a meeting at army headquarters in Rawalpindi, where
    they were confronted with the fault in their technology. “The North Koreans started talking left and right but were told to
    open their eyes and take care of the guidance system in their
    Nodong missiles,” said the scientist, who was privy to the meeting. Musharraf, he said, initially wanted to return the Nodong missiles to
    North Korea, from which it had imported 40 in knocked down
    condition in the mid-1990s. But then the Pakistan Atomic Energy
    Commission undertook to replace the guidance with that of the
    country’s Chinese-aided Shaheen missile, he said. Last Nov. 28, the improved version of Ghauri was test-fired and the
    government — true to form — declared it a success. Soon afterward,
    however, it was found to have exploded in midair and rained metal
    debris over parts of Sindh Province. Pakistan’s disgraced nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, whose
    laboratory develops nuclear warheads for Pakistan’s missiles,
    concedes there was a row about the Ghauri’s accuracy. But he ridicules the assertion that Musharraf wanted to return them
    over their faulty guidance system, saying, “What difference does it
    make if a nuclear-tipped missile falls 1 km left or right of the
    predetermined impact point?” Khan claims Musharraf merely sought to return them because
    Pakistan had insufficient funds to pay back what it owed for them. The Kargil crisis happened in the wake of six nuclear tests carried out
    by Pakistan in May 1998, which triggered sanctions against the
    country and led a drastic fall in foreign exchange reserves. Pakistan suffered a serious military and diplomatic setback after
    successful Indian military action and intense international pressure
    forced it to unconditionally pull back behind the Line of Control as
    part of the U.S.-brokered ceasefire. In his autobiography, published in 2006, Musharraf called it a “myth”
    that the two sides had come to the brink of nuclear war during the
    conflict and dismissed as “preposterous” speculation that Pakistan
    was preparing for a possible nuclear strike on India then. “I can also say with authority that in 1999 our nuclear capability
    was not yet operational. Merely exploding a bomb does not mean
    that you are operationally capable of deploying nuclear force in the
    field and delivering a bomb across the border over a selected
    target,” he wrote. Critics of Musharraf’s action often refer to the Kargil conflict as a
    “misadventure,” saying it was badly conceived and executed, while
    he wrongly assumed the world would sit back idly. Instead of considering the Kargil as a blunder, Musharraf, who has
    been living in exile since quitting politics in 2008, claims it actually
    brought the Kashmir issue back into international focus and helped
    pave the way for a solution. However, tension between the nuclear-armed neighbors, which
    have fought three wars since partition in 1947, two of them over
    Kashmir, has remained high since the Kargil conflict. 0 comments What's this? ALSO ON THE JAPAN TIMES ONLINE Welfare payments to be slashed ¥74
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  11. Horus

    Horus ADMINISTRATOR

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    We, don't need to. We are not going to Invade India,and our current resources suffice to provide a credible conventional deterrent.

    Only juveniles think so.

    We have been primarily a defensive force.

    .

    Kashmir is far from being settled.

    I, have never compared the US with Pakistan on equal terms, there is something wrong with your comprehension.

    Ignorance is a bliss 2.0
     
  12. A.Rafay

    A.Rafay ELITE MEMBER

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    Pakistan with Nuclear Power is stronger than the Pakistan of 1960s, It has frightened our neighbour and stopped Pakistan from being Bullied by USA.

    the USA cant fight the WOT without Pakistans Help and intelligence from ISI

    Yes, Islamic Nations see Pakistan as a brother Nuclear Power with Strong Army, KSA, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar often sends their soldeirs to train in Pakistani Military Academies.

    Yes, In vajepayees tenure, India and Pakistan had Dialogues on Kashmir, And in Musharrafs term Also, And in future india has to negotiate with Pakistan

    Yes trade ties with countries like Russia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Germany, China, srilanka, Afghanistan, S.korea, USA and other European countries have improved.
     
  13. Jade

    Jade SENIOR MEMBER

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    So you are agreeing that Pakistan is defense force.

    How many time nukes have been used since they are discovered some 80 years back? So what is juvenile about this?

    What makes you think Kashmir is far from settled? Do you think Pakistan has the capability to wage a war against India, then win it and then take over Kashmir? If you think Pakistan can do this, then I have to say “Only juveniles think so”

    Who has 10’s of thousands of nukes – US or Russia

    Instead of writing “Ignorance is a bliss 2.0”, care to explain why TTP cannot steal nukes? There is every proof that TTP has the capability to take on high security installations.
     
  14. JonAsad

    JonAsad ELITE MEMBER

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    Hi OP-

    Pakistan is a nuclear capable country-

    Get over it OP-
    Bye OP-
     
  15. Bonhomie

    Bonhomie FULL MEMBER

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    lol that's a good one 'TTP has capacity bla bla bla to steal nukes.. could you be more propagandist than this? I didn't lol'd much.

    of-coures you have nothing to back this up besides purely banal assumptions, speculations nothing new here it's been over a decade Indians babbling about how insecure Pakistan is that TTP can buckle up steal nukes oh yeah its that easy essentially you're confusing the lack of knowledge with expertise which is disappointing but clearly fallacious.