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Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban: UK University

jagjitnatt

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MOD EDIT: Videos providing the counter POV and illustrating the weakness of the report inserted:


1. the 'view' of taliban commanders is...... and they 'believe' so... but not know so.
2. there is no proof but only based on statements from different western officials (whom we already know well enough) and taliban commanders who are themselves not sure.


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A new report claims to provide the most concrete evidence yet of direct links between Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The report says the ISI is providing funding, training and sanctuary to the Taliban on a scale much larger than previously thought.

The document was prepared by the London School of Economics (LSE).

A spokesman for Pakistan's military rejected the claims as part of a malicious campaign against the country.
'Rubbish'

The report's author spoke to nine Taliban field commanders in Afghanistan earlier this year.

He concludes that Pakistan's relationship with the insturgents runs far deeper than previously realised.



Some of those interviewed suggested that the ISI even attends meetings of the Taliban's supreme council. They claim that by backing the insurgents Pakistan's security service is trying to undermine Indian influence in Afghanistan.

The report concludes that without a significant change in approach by Pakistan, both the Afghan government and international community will find it impossible to end the insurgency in Afghanistan.

The spokesman for Pakistan's military said the claims were "rubbish" and part of a malicious campaign against the country's military and security agencies.

BBC News - Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban
 
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jeypore

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A new report claims to provide the most concrete evidence yet of direct links between Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The report says the ISI is providing funding, training and sanctuary to the Taliban on a scale much larger than previously thought.

The document was prepared by the London School of Economics (LSE).

A spokesman for Pakistan's military rejected the claims as part of a malicious campaign against the country.
'Rubbish'

The report's author spoke to nine Taliban field commanders in Afghanistan earlier this year.

He concludes that Pakistan's relationship with the insturgents runs far deeper than previously realised.



Some of those interviewed suggested that the ISI even attends meetings of the Taliban's supreme council. They claim that by backing the insurgents Pakistan's security service is trying to undermine Indian influence in Afghanistan.

The report concludes that without a significant change in approach by Pakistan, both the Afghan government and international community will find it impossible to end the insurgency in Afghanistan.

The spokesman for Pakistan's military said the claims were "rubbish" and part of a malicious campaign against the country's military and security agencies.

BBC News - Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban
AS you can see the anger of Afghanie gov't of being angry with Pakistan...

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

Mr. Rocket Singh,

All that is crap!!!
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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And lets see what else this report alleges:
The report also alleges that Asif Ali Zardari, the president of Pakistan, recently met captured Taliban leaders to assure them that the Taliban had his government’s full support. This was vigorously denied by Zardari’s spokesman. Pakistani troops have launched offensives against militants in North and South Waziristan.

However, a senior Taliban source in regular contact with members of the Quetta shura told The Sunday Times that in early April, Zardari and a senior ISI official met 50 high-ranking Taliban members at a prison in Pakistan.

According to a Taliban leader in the jail at the time, five days before the meeting prison officials were told to prepare for the impending presidential call. Prison guards wearing dark glasses served the Taliban captives traditional Afghan meals three times a day.

“They wanted to make the prisoners feel like they were important and respected,” the source said.

Hours before Zardari’s visit, the head warder told the Taliban inmates to impress upon the president how well they had been looked after during their time in captivity.

Zardari spoke to them for half an hour. He allegedly explained that he had arrested them because his government was under increasing American pressure to end the sanctuary enjoyed by the Taliban in Pakistan and to round up their ringleaders.

“You are our people, we are friends, and after your release we will of course support you to do your operations,” he said, according to the source.

He vowed to release the less well-known commanders in the near future and said that the “famous” Taliban leaders would be freed at a later date.

Five days after Zardari’s visit, a handful of Taliban prisoners, including The Sunday Times’s source, were driven into Quetta and set free, in line with the president’s pledge.

“This report is consistent with Pakistan’s political history in which civilian leaders actively backed jihadi groups that operate in Afghanistan and Kashmir,” Waldman said.

According to the source, during his visit to the prison Zardari also met Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the Taliban’s former second in command, who was arrested by the ISI earlier this year with seven other Taliban leaders.

Baradar, who is from the same tribe as Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, had allegedly approached the Afghan government to discuss the prospect of a peace settlement between the two sides.

Baradar’s arrest is seen in both diplomatic and Taliban circles as an ISI plot to manipulate the Taliban’s political hierarchy and also to block negotiations between the Kabul government and the Taliban leadership.

Pakistan puppet masters guide the Taliban killers - Times Online
So supposedly the same guy (President Zardari) whose wife was killed by the Taliban, and who is largely viewed as liberal, friendly to the US and India, and wants to 'assert civilian control' over Pakistan's intelligence agencies and military (tried to move the ISI under the Interior Ministry, headed by a Zardari lackey, and has reasserted the role of the Intelligence Bureau domestically, as well as reducing the number of 'military staff' it had), is eventually running the 'pro Taliban policy'.

Rather fantastic don't you think?

And if true, why call this an 'ISI supports Taliban'? Quite obviously if the President is on board this is a 'Zardari and PPP support Taliban', with the ISI merely implementing their policy - the ISI reports to the Prime Minister of Pakistan (Gillani) by the way, who is also considered very loyal to Zardari, albeit also considered a decent and honest man.
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Can't say this isn't a fantastic propaganda effort though, right on the heels of Karzai firing Amrullah Saleh the Afghan intelligence chief who was considered very anti-Pakistan.
 

jagjitnatt

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Can't say this isn't a fantastic propaganda effort though, right on the heels of Karzai firing Amrullah Saleh the Afghan intelligence chief who was considered very anti-Pakistan.
Well, the document is prepared by London School of Economics, the interviewers were from UK, India has been saying the same things since two decades now, Afghanistan has been saying the same, and its not the first time this has come to the light.

So personally I have enough reasons to believe its true and nothing about it seems false to me.
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Well, the document is prepared by London School of Economics, the interviewers were from UK, India has been saying the same things since two decades now, Afghanistan has been saying the same, and its not the first time this has come to the light.

So personally I have enough reasons to believe its true and nothing about it seems false to me.
So you think the story about Zardari makes sense?

Keep in mind that even if the author has in fact narrated the accounts told him by Taliban commanders in detail, they remain opinions and 'stories' passed on by these commanders.
 

jagjitnatt

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So you think the story about Zardari makes sense?

Keep in mind that even if the author has in fact narrated the accounts told him by Taliban commanders in detail, they remain opinions and 'stories' passed on by these commanders.
No no.

I don't think Zardari has anything to do with it. Actually none of the politicians have anything to do with it.

The command of Pakistan has always been with the Army. The army and the ISI have been running the country for a long time now. The army from day 1 has been anti-India and has been trying to do everything it can to harm us.

It is very evident from all the wars.

It is believed there is an ISI within the ISI. The retired ISI personnel have links with the Taliban and they provided funding and weapons from the Pak accounts to them.
 

jeypore

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And lets see what else this report alleges:


So supposedly the same guy (President Zardari) whose wife was killed by the Taliban, and who is largely viewed as liberal, friendly to the US and India, and wants to 'assert civilian control' over Pakistan's intelligence agencies and military (tried to move the ISI under the Interior Ministry, headed by a Zardari lackey, and has reasserted the role of the Intelligence Bureau domestically, as well as reducing the number of 'military staff' it had), is eventually running the 'pro Taliban policy'.

Rather fantastic don't you think?

And if true, why call this an 'ISI supports Taliban'? Quite obviously if the President is on board this is a 'Zardari and PPP support Taliban', with the ISI merely implementing their policy - the ISI reports to the Prime Minister of Pakistan (Gillani) by the way, who is also considered very loyal to Zardari, albeit also considered a decent and honest man.
Beautiful!!!

Why not then put ISI agency under civilian control, like all other democratic countries!!!

Maybe AGNO, that is where suspicion of ISI exists, don't you think!!!
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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No no.

I don't think Zardari has anything to do with it. Actually none of the politicians have anything to do with it.

The command of Pakistan has always been with the Army. The army and the ISI have been running the country for a long time now. The army from day 1 has been anti-India and has been trying to do everything it can to harm us.

It is very evident from all the wars.

It is believed there is an ISI within the ISI. The retired ISI personnel have links with the Taliban and they provided funding and weapons from the Pak accounts to them.
The LSE report quite clearly quotes the Taliban commanders as implicating Zardari and the PPP government in this through the account I posted above - if you believe that entire account is hogwash, then why do you believe anything else in the report?

If these alleged commanders came up with such a fantastic story of Zardari's involvement and meeting at a prison with Taliban leaders, then why isn't the rest of it a lie?
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Beautiful!!!

Why not then put ISI agency under civilian control, like all other democratic countries!!!

Maybe AGNO, that is where suspicion of ISI exists, don't you think!!!
That has nothing to do with the points I raised about the veracity of the report based on the story about Zardari.

And BTW, the DG ISI is appointed by the Prime Minister and reports to the Prime Minister - don't know how else it can be put under 'civilian control' given that it is a military intelligence agency (Inter Services Intelligence - the services being the Army, Air Force and Navy), and therefore will have a staff that is primarily military.

Pakistan does have a civilian intelligence agency called the Intelligence Bureau, that falls under the Interior Ministry and reports to the Interior Minister - that is, currently, staffed largely by civilians.
 

EjazR

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Here is a reuters report on this...

Report slams Pakistan for meddling in Afghanistan | Reuters

The report, published by the London School of Economics, a leading British institution, on Sunday, said research strongly suggested support for the Taliban was the "official policy" of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI).

Although links between the ISI and Islamist militants have been widely suspected for a long time, the report's findings, which it said were corroborated by two senior Western security officials, could raise more concerns in the West over Pakistan's commitment to help end the war in Afghanistan.

The report also said Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari was reported to have visited senior Taliban prisoners in Pakistan earlier this year, where he is believed to have promised their release and help for militant operations, suggesting support for the Taliban "is approved at the highest level of Pakistan's civilian government."

A Pakistani diplomatic source described that report as "naive," and also said any talks with the Taliban were up to the Afghan government.

"Pakistan appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude," said the report, based on interviews with Taliban commanders and former senior Taliban ministers as well as Western and Afghan security officials.

"DUPLICITY"

In March 2009, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, and General David Petraeus, head of U.S. Central Command, said they had indications elements in the ISI supported the Taliban and al Qaeda and said the agency must end such activities.

Nevertheless, senior Western officials have been reluctant to talk publicly on the subject for fear of damaging possible cooperation from Pakistan, a nuclear-armed state Washington has propped up with billions of dollars in military and economic aid.

"The Pakistan government's apparent duplicity -- and awareness of it among the American public and political establishment -- could have enormous geo-political implications," said the report's author, Matt Waldman, a fellow at Harvard University.

"Without a change in Pakistani behavior it will be difficult if not impossible for international forces and the Afghan government to make progress against the insurgency," Waldman said in the report.

The report comes at the end of one of the bloodiest weeks for foreign troops in Afghanistan -- more than 21 have been killed this week -- and at a time when the insurgency is at its most violent.

More than 1,800 foreign troops, including some 1,100 Americans, have died in Afghanistan since U.S.-backed Afghan forces overthrew the Taliban in late 2001. The war has already cost the United States around $300 billion and now costs more than $70 billion a year, the report said, citing 2009 U.S. Congressional research figures.

VIOLENT REGIONS

The report said interviews with Taliban commanders in some of the most violent regions in Afghanistan "suggest that Pakistan continues to give extensive support to the insurgency in terms of funding, munitions and supplies."

"These accounts were corroborated by former Taliban ministers, a Western analyst and a senior U.N. official based in Kabul, who said the Taliban largely depend on funding from the ISI and groups in Gulf countries," the report said.

Almost all of the Taliban commanders interviewed in the report also believed the ISI was represented on the Quetta Shura, the Taliban's supreme leadership council based in Pakistan.

"Interviews strongly suggest that the ISI has representatives on the (Quetta) Shura, either as participants or observers, and the agency is thus involved at the highest level of the movement," the report said.

The report also stated that Pakistani President Zardari, along with a senior ISI official, allegedly visited some 50 senior Taliban prisoners at a secret location in Pakistan where he told them they had been arrested only because he was under pressure from the United States.

"(This) suggests that the policy is approved at the highest level of Pakistan's civilian government," the report said.

Afghanistan has also been highly critical of Pakistan's ISI involvement in the conflict in Afghanistan. Last week, the former director of Afghanistan's intelligence service, Amrullah Saleh, resigned saying he had become an obstacle to President Hamid Karzai's plans to negotiate with the insurgents.

In an exclusive interview with Reuters at his home a day after he resigned, Saleh said the ISI was "part of the landscape of destruction in this country."

"It will be a waste of time to provide evidence of ISI involvement. They are a part of it. The Pakistani army of which ISI is a part, they know where the Taliban leaders are -- in their safe houses," he told Reuters.
 

jagjitnatt

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The LSE report quite clearly quotes the Taliban commanders as implicating Zardari and the PPP government in this through the account I posted above - if you believe that entire account is hogwash, then why do you believe anything else in the report?

If these alleged commanders came up with such a fantastic story of Zardari's involvement and meeting at a prison with Taliban leaders, then why isn't the rest of it a lie?
Political parties in Pakistan have always been puppet governments where the real operators have been the army. Zardari is just a tool. He himself doesn't know what he is doing. He's doing what the army is making him do.

So I won't blame the political parties for what is happening right now. They are being used. The real culprits should be taken care of.
 

jeypore

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AgNoStIc MuSliM

The LSE report quite clearly quotes the Taliban commanders as implicating Zardari and the PPP government in this through the account I posted above - if you believe that entire account is hogwash, then why do you believe anything else in the report?
AGNO are you reading, the article clearly says that ISI, And who Is currently running ISI... The ARMY...
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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AGNO are you reading, the article clearly says that ISI, And who Is currently running ISI... The ARMY...
I am reading - but are you? Have you read the excerpt I posted and what the report claims Zardari did and said? The same guy whose wife was killed by the Taliban and who the West is supporting to 'bring under civilian control' the military and ISI.

Why would the ISI, if it was involved in supporting the Taliban, even trust Zardari with such information and involve him given that he is already considered a lackey of the West in Pakistan by many hardliners?
 

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