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Pakistan's Gwadar loses luster as Saudis shift $10bn deal to Karachi

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Clutch

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majority people here see both (Zionist & US) in everything hence my comment was based on this assumption.

Good for you that you are pro Israel, i am not pro or against with any one i am only Pro Pakistani that's it and I thing its hard time we all learn to become only pro Pakistani.
Lol... So your logic is... Because "people see Zionist and America behind everything".. you will never see Zionist and America behind anything??? Lol

You still don't know what strategic 5th gen warfare is then?.... CPEC is something the Americans will work against. The entity QUAD idea is to undermine it.
 

nahtanbob

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Learn about Gwadar first become making such an illogical comment. If SA wishes to move out their refinery from Gwadar to Karachi, they have the right to do so because its their investment. At the end of the day whether Karachi or Gwadar the investment is inside Pakistan but let us not make it beyond what it really is.
There is a good reason 20 million people live in Karachi and 200,000 live in Gwadar
 

IceCold

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There is a good reason 20 million people live in Karachi and 200,000 live in Gwadar
Only for the feeble mind. In reality it is clear that Baluchistan is only beginning to get its share of development. Karachi on the other hand is the financial capital of Pakistan. But in the long run it will be Gwadar and not Karachi. Karachi is done in terms of development and can go only this far while Gwadar has only just begun. If this would not be politically motivated, rest assured no business man worth its salt would want to leave Gwadar for Baluchistan.
 

Shah_G

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KARACHI -- Saudi Arabia has decided to shift a proposed $10 billion oil refinery to Karachi from Gwadar, the center stage of the Belt and Road Initiative in Pakistan, further supporting the impression that the port city is losing its importance as a mega-investment hub.

Gawadar Port city won’t lose it’s importance due to its strategic location and deep sea port.

Anyways, In both scenarios Pakistan wins.
 

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

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Infrastructure gaps behind Riyadh's decision to move oil refinery to more developed area
1624613455596.png



Saudi Arabia has decided to shift a proposed $10 billion oil refinery to Karachi from Gwadar, the center stage of the Belt and Road Initiative in Pakistan, further supporting the impression that the port city is losing its importance as a mega-investment hub.

On June 2, Tabish Gauhar, the special assistant to Pakistan's prime minister on power and petroleum, told the media that Saudi Arabia will not build the refinery at Gwadar but will construct it along with a petrochemical complex somewhere near Karachi. He added that in the next five years another refinery with a capacity of over 200,000 barrels a day could be built in Pakistan.

Saudi Arabia signed a memorandum of understanding to invest $10 billion in an oil refinery and petrochemical complex at Gwadar in February 2019, during a visit by Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman to Pakistan. At the time, Islamabad was struggling with declining foreign exchange reserves.


The decision to shift the project to Karachi highlights the infrastructural deficiencies in Gwadar.

A Pakistani official in the petroleum sector told Nikkei Asia on condition of anonymity that a mega oil refinery in Gwadar was never feasible. "Gwadar can only be a feasible location of an oil refinery if a 600-km oil pipeline is built connecting it with Karachi, the center of oil supply of the country," the official said. There is currently an oil pipeline from Karachi to the north of Pakistan, but not to the east.

"Without a pipeline, the transport of refined oil from Gwadar [via road in oil tankers] to consumption centers in the country will be very expensive," the official said. He added that at the current pace of development he did not see Gwadar's infrastructure issues being resolved in the next 15 years.

The official also hinted that Pakistan's negotiations with Russia for investment in the energy sector might have been a factor in the Saudis' decision. In February 2019, a Russian delegation, headed by Gazprom Deputy Chairman Vitaly A. Markelov, pledged investment of $14 billion in different energy projects including pipelines. So far these pledges have not materialized, but Moscow's pledge provided Pakistan with an alternative to the Saudis, which probably irritated Riyadh.

Experts agree that locating the refinery in Gwadar was not feasible due to infrastructure gaps and security concerns.

Arif Rafiq, president of Vizier Consulting, a New York-based political risk firm, told Nikkei that a Saudi-commissioned feasibility study on a refinery and petrochemicals complex in Gwadar advised against it. "Saudi interest has shifted closer to Karachi, which makes sense, given its proximity to areas of high demand and existing logistics networks," he added.

Rafiq, who is also a nonresident scholar at the Middle East Institute in Washington, considers this decision by the Saudis as a setback for Gwadar, the crown jewel of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, the $50 billion Pakistan component of the Belt and Road.

The Saudi decision "is a setback for Pakistan's plans for Gwadar to emerge as an energy and industrial hub. Pakistan has struggled to find a viable economic growth strategy for Gwadar," he said. Any progress in Gwadar in the coming decade or two will be slow and incremental, he added.

Local politicians consider the shifting of the oil refinery a huge loss for economic development in Gwadar. Aslam Bhootani, the National Assembly of Pakistan member representing Gwadar, said the move is a loss not only for Gwadar but for all of the southwestern province of Balochistan. He said he would urge the Petroleum Ministry of Pakistan to ask the Saudis to reconsider their decision.

The decision has shattered the image of Gwadar as an up-and-coming major commercial hub. In February 2020, the Gwadar Smart Port City Masterplan was unveiled, forecasting that the city's economy would surpass $30 billion by 2050 and add 1.2 million additional jobs. Local officials started calling Gwadar the future "Singapore of Pakistan."

Rafiq said such dreams are unrealistic. "A more prudent strategy [for Pakistan] would be to use the city as a vehicle for sustained, equitable economic growth for Balochistan, especially its Makran coastal region," he said.

Relocating the refinery from Gwadar to already developed Karachi also implies that CPEC, or BRI, has failed to promote Gwadar as a mega-investment hub. "Foreign direct investment in Gwadar will be limited and will remain exclusively Chinese," an Islamabad-based development analyst said, "limiting the city's scope for development."

The refinery decision has once again exposed the infrastructural shortcomings of Gwadar, which Pakistan and China have failed to address in the last six years. Without highways and railways connecting it with northern Pakistan, the city will never develop as its proponents hope.

 

AbuzarIlyas

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EVET! At that time, the announcement was made without any prequalification or feasibility study. Refinery+Petrochemical plant needs atleast 10,000 direct workers/officers to operate. In addition to this, it would have caused more than 10 bln$ in terms of additional costs because on ground the Gwadar is still a remote area. No one wants to shift to a remote area leaving the lights of a big city and big commercial markets. The charm on a remote site is unavailable. Be it a case of Pakistan or Gulf.

For example, in Qatar, the workers in Ras Laffan Industrial City are more happy because there are more shopping malls, restaurants and city's hustle bustle as compared to Messaied Industrial City. Same would have been a case in Gwadar. That is why it is recommended to appoint the qualified project managers and experienced planners for authorities like CPEC. Unfortunately, we have appointed a retired general on a post which is crucial for the future of Pakistan.
 

Patriot forever

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Infrastructure gaps behind Riyadh's decision to move oil refinery to more developed area
View attachment 756236


Saudi Arabia has decided to shift a proposed $10 billion oil refinery to Karachi from Gwadar, the center stage of the Belt and Road Initiative in Pakistan, further supporting the impression that the port city is losing its importance as a mega-investment hub.

On June 2, Tabish Gauhar, the special assistant to Pakistan's prime minister on power and petroleum, told the media that Saudi Arabia will not build the refinery at Gwadar but will construct it along with a petrochemical complex somewhere near Karachi. He added that in the next five years another refinery with a capacity of over 200,000 barrels a day could be built in Pakistan.

Saudi Arabia signed a memorandum of understanding to invest $10 billion in an oil refinery and petrochemical complex at Gwadar in February 2019, during a visit by Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman to Pakistan. At the time, Islamabad was struggling with declining foreign exchange reserves.


The decision to shift the project to Karachi highlights the infrastructural deficiencies in Gwadar.

A Pakistani official in the petroleum sector told Nikkei Asia on condition of anonymity that a mega oil refinery in Gwadar was never feasible. "Gwadar can only be a feasible location of an oil refinery if a 600-km oil pipeline is built connecting it with Karachi, the center of oil supply of the country," the official said. There is currently an oil pipeline from Karachi to the north of Pakistan, but not to the east.

"Without a pipeline, the transport of refined oil from Gwadar [via road in oil tankers] to consumption centers in the country will be very expensive," the official said. He added that at the current pace of development he did not see Gwadar's infrastructure issues being resolved in the next 15 years.

The official also hinted that Pakistan's negotiations with Russia for investment in the energy sector might have been a factor in the Saudis' decision. In February 2019, a Russian delegation, headed by Gazprom Deputy Chairman Vitaly A. Markelov, pledged investment of $14 billion in different energy projects including pipelines. So far these pledges have not materialized, but Moscow's pledge provided Pakistan with an alternative to the Saudis, which probably irritated Riyadh.

Experts agree that locating the refinery in Gwadar was not feasible due to infrastructure gaps and security concerns.

Arif Rafiq, president of Vizier Consulting, a New York-based political risk firm, told Nikkei that a Saudi-commissioned feasibility study on a refinery and petrochemicals complex in Gwadar advised against it. "Saudi interest has shifted closer to Karachi, which makes sense, given its proximity to areas of high demand and existing logistics networks," he added.

Rafiq, who is also a nonresident scholar at the Middle East Institute in Washington, considers this decision by the Saudis as a setback for Gwadar, the crown jewel of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, the $50 billion Pakistan component of the Belt and Road.

The Saudi decision "is a setback for Pakistan's plans for Gwadar to emerge as an energy and industrial hub. Pakistan has struggled to find a viable economic growth strategy for Gwadar," he said. Any progress in Gwadar in the coming decade or two will be slow and incremental, he added.

Local politicians consider the shifting of the oil refinery a huge loss for economic development in Gwadar. Aslam Bhootani, the National Assembly of Pakistan member representing Gwadar, said the move is a loss not only for Gwadar but for all of the southwestern province of Balochistan. He said he would urge the Petroleum Ministry of Pakistan to ask the Saudis to reconsider their decision.

The decision has shattered the image of Gwadar as an up-and-coming major commercial hub. In February 2020, the Gwadar Smart Port City Masterplan was unveiled, forecasting that the city's economy would surpass $30 billion by 2050 and add 1.2 million additional jobs. Local officials started calling Gwadar the future "Singapore of Pakistan."

Rafiq said such dreams are unrealistic. "A more prudent strategy [for Pakistan] would be to use the city as a vehicle for sustained, equitable economic growth for Balochistan, especially its Makran coastal region," he said.

Relocating the refinery from Gwadar to already developed Karachi also implies that CPEC, or BRI, has failed to promote Gwadar as a mega-investment hub. "Foreign direct investment in Gwadar will be limited and will remain exclusively Chinese," an Islamabad-based development analyst said, "limiting the city's scope for development."

The refinery decision has once again exposed the infrastructural shortcomings of Gwadar, which Pakistan and China have failed to address in the last six years. Without highways and railways connecting it with northern Pakistan, the city will never develop as its proponents hope.

The assesment is not wrong in moving from qawadar to karachi. The logistics are not there yet, there is just one N10 a dual carriage way that links it to hub that is karachi ( it is a beautiful road and in good condition )

Qawadar is no where what it used to be even compared to a couple of years ago. The property prices have increased considerably ( just went there last month), the internal city roads are clean and developed. It is a well planned beautiful city ( gosh the beach is beautiful) and peaceful, and is seeing rapid development. But it is not at a level to handle a $10b investment. The economic infrastructure is still rudimentary with very small population and locals relying on smuggled goods from Iran.
 
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Norwegian

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The assesment is not wrong in moving from qawadar to karachi. The logistics are not there yet, there is just one N10 a dual carriage way that links it to hub that is karachi.

Qawadar is no where what it used to be even compared to a couple of years ago. The property prices have increased considerably ( just went there last month), the internal city roads are clean and developed. It is a well planned beautiful city ( gosh the beach is beautiful) and peaceful, and is seeing rapid development. But it is not at a level to handle a $10b investment. The economic infrastructure is still rudimentary with very small population and locals relying on smuggled goods from Iran.
So Pakistan developed Gawadar when there is almost no local population and that is surviving on smuggled goods from Iran? Who the fck are economic planners in this country?
 

Patriot forever

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So Pakistan developed Gawadar when there is almost no local population and that is surviving on smuggled goods from Iran? Who the fck are economic planners in this country?
Make no mistake bro, it is in the near future a sister to karachi. And it will be to Balochistan what karachi is to Sindh. It will take time.

When one say goods (i mean iranian chocolates, laban, cheeses, cakes, milk everyday items) which has been the case for decades. Ofcourse as the city grows more businesses will move there, numerous banks have opened, there are hotels, real estate, developers. It has become a small city and no longer a rural town.

The management is exceptional including security, development authority (GDA) etc.

You need to see to understand the potential.
 

Patriot forever

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EVET! At that time, the announcement was made without any prequalification or feasibility study. Refinery+Petrochemical plant needs atleast 10,000 direct workers/officers to operate. In addition to this, it would have caused more than 10 bln$ in terms of additional costs because on ground the Gwadar is still a remote area. No one wants to shift to a remote area leaving the lights of a big city and big commercial markets. The charm on a remote site is unavailable. Be it a case of Pakistan or Gulf.

For example, in Qatar, the workers in Ras Laffan Industrial City are more happy because there are more shopping malls, restaurants and city's hustle bustle as compared to Messaied Industrial City. Same would have been a case in Gwadar. That is why it is recommended to appoint the qualified project managers and experienced planners for authorities like CPEC. Unfortunately, we have appointed a retired general on a post which is crucial for the future of Pakistan.
You are right about the feasability of refinery but that is in terms of logistics and workforce, but you are absolutely wrong about CPEC authority. You have no idea how much disipline is there in the city, how corruption free the departments are and they are doing excellent job. It is organized. (The opposite of karachi)

Please please dont let that beautiful city fall in the hands of vultures like karachi.

As afar as the life around there is concerned, it is developing rapidly, and it has a particular charm in it.
 

AbuzarIlyas

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You are right about the feasability of refinery but that is in terms of logistics and workforce, but you are absolutely wrong about CPEC authority. You have no idea how much disipline is there in the city, how corruption free the departments are and they are doing excellent job. It is organized. (The opposite of karachi)

Please please dont let that beautiful city fall in the hands of vultures like karachi.

As afar as the life around there is concerned, it is developing rapidly, and it has a particular charm in it.
People other than Gen Asim Bajwa are not vultures!
 

Patriot forever

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People other than Gen Asim Bajwa are not vultures!
No bro thats the point. Its the perception you have that you are projecting, which is no where near to reality.

The way gawadar is transformed under him is visible to anyone familiar with the city, and the people reflect that sentiment in gawadar.
 

FuturePAF

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To make Gwadar really viable, the key are Pipelines. Not just from Gwadar to Karachi, which is a must, but there needs to be either a connection between Gwadar and Iran or an undersea Pipeline between Oman and Gwadar. As a flagship project of BRI, it would make more sense for China to build a pipeline from the Gulf Arab nations via Oman to Gwadar continuing on to Karachi and the rest of the pipeline network (for onward transit to China) as well as building a pipeline from Iran to Quetta and onwards to Multan. At Multan one segment of the pipeline can go to India if some rapprochement is made with them, and another to China.

Gwadar’s future is tied with BRI and peace in Afghanistan. Pakistan is working on the Afghan issue, now China with its $1 Trillion reserves should move to advance BRI (with investments not loans)

P.S. If China builds this pipeline from Oman it can actually work with the Gulf Arab countries to also build a pipeline from Djibouti through Yemen to Oman as part of an effort to help generate reliable transit income for the Yemenis and help the rebuilding efforts. It would help counter Iranian influence in Yemen. Just a thought.

Djibouti could be part of a greater African pipeline network from Nigeria and Angola to China. It’s a grand vision but a key way to cement Chinese influence and make Pakistan the center of Chinese oil trade. As a strategic friend, if China does this it would really help prop up Pakistan and withstand some financial pressures.
 
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khanmubashir

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Infrastructure gaps behind Riyadh's decision to move oil refinery to more developed area
View attachment 756236


Saudi Arabia has decided to shift a proposed $10 billion oil refinery to Karachi from Gwadar, the center stage of the Belt and Road Initiative in Pakistan, further supporting the impression that the port city is losing its importance as a mega-investment hub.

On June 2, Tabish Gauhar, the special assistant to Pakistan's prime minister on power and petroleum, told the media that Saudi Arabia will not build the refinery at Gwadar but will construct it along with a petrochemical complex somewhere near Karachi. He added that in the next five years another refinery with a capacity of over 200,000 barrels a day could be built in Pakistan.

Saudi Arabia signed a memorandum of understanding to invest $10 billion in an oil refinery and petrochemical complex at Gwadar in February 2019, during a visit by Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman to Pakistan. At the time, Islamabad was struggling with declining foreign exchange reserves.


The decision to shift the project to Karachi highlights the infrastructural deficiencies in Gwadar.

A Pakistani official in the petroleum sector told Nikkei Asia on condition of anonymity that a mega oil refinery in Gwadar was never feasible. "Gwadar can only be a feasible location of an oil refinery if a 600-km oil pipeline is built connecting it with Karachi, the center of oil supply of the country," the official said. There is currently an oil pipeline from Karachi to the north of Pakistan, but not to the east.

"Without a pipeline, the transport of refined oil from Gwadar [via road in oil tankers] to consumption centers in the country will be very expensive," the official said. He added that at the current pace of development he did not see Gwadar's infrastructure issues being resolved in the next 15 years.

The official also hinted that Pakistan's negotiations with Russia for investment in the energy sector might have been a factor in the Saudis' decision. In February 2019, a Russian delegation, headed by Gazprom Deputy Chairman Vitaly A. Markelov, pledged investment of $14 billion in different energy projects including pipelines. So far these pledges have not materialized, but Moscow's pledge provided Pakistan with an alternative to the Saudis, which probably irritated Riyadh.

Experts agree that locating the refinery in Gwadar was not feasible due to infrastructure gaps and security concerns.

Arif Rafiq, president of Vizier Consulting, a New York-based political risk firm, told Nikkei that a Saudi-commissioned feasibility study on a refinery and petrochemicals complex in Gwadar advised against it. "Saudi interest has shifted closer to Karachi, which makes sense, given its proximity to areas of high demand and existing logistics networks," he added.

Rafiq, who is also a nonresident scholar at the Middle East Institute in Washington, considers this decision by the Saudis as a setback for Gwadar, the crown jewel of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, the $50 billion Pakistan component of the Belt and Road.

The Saudi decision "is a setback for Pakistan's plans for Gwadar to emerge as an energy and industrial hub. Pakistan has struggled to find a viable economic growth strategy for Gwadar," he said. Any progress in Gwadar in the coming decade or two will be slow and incremental, he added.

Local politicians consider the shifting of the oil refinery a huge loss for economic development in Gwadar. Aslam Bhootani, the National Assembly of Pakistan member representing Gwadar, said the move is a loss not only for Gwadar but for all of the southwestern province of Balochistan. He said he would urge the Petroleum Ministry of Pakistan to ask the Saudis to reconsider their decision.

The decision has shattered the image of Gwadar as an up-and-coming major commercial hub. In February 2020, the Gwadar Smart Port City Masterplan was unveiled, forecasting that the city's economy would surpass $30 billion by 2050 and add 1.2 million additional jobs. Local officials started calling Gwadar the future "Singapore of Pakistan."

Rafiq said such dreams are unrealistic. "A more prudent strategy [for Pakistan] would be to use the city as a vehicle for sustained, equitable economic growth for Balochistan, especially its Makran coastal region," he said.

Relocating the refinery from Gwadar to already developed Karachi also implies that CPEC, or BRI, has failed to promote Gwadar as a mega-investment hub. "Foreign direct investment in Gwadar will be limited and will remain exclusively Chinese," an Islamabad-based development analyst said, "limiting the city's scope for development."

The refinery decision has once again exposed the infrastructural shortcomings of Gwadar, which Pakistan and China have failed to address in the last six years. Without highways and railways connecting it with northern Pakistan, the city will never develop as its proponents hope.

Well the investment will be made in Pakistan still

Karachi already has the infrastructure
The required manpower etc.
For such mega projects
Gawadar will take time

Btw one possibility is instead of installing such petroleum plants new renewable energy projects like coastal and offshore turbines solar etc be installed owing to availability of large swaths of undeveloped low price lands
 
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