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Pakistan's display of R-73 and R-77 missiles not reliable : Claim by self proclaimed expert

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Suriya

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Indo-Pakistani Conflict: The First Victim
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By Everton Luiz Pedroza *





In the Indo-Pakistani conflict earlier this year, the first victim - as in virtually all conflicts - seems to have been the truth.

On February 27, 2019, an attack package consisting of 24 PAF (Pakistan Air Force) aircraft flew into Kashmir to target targets on Indian territory. It was retaliation and came a day after the IAF (Indian Air Force) Mirage 2000 fighters bombarded with SPICE bombs an alleged terrorist training camp in Balakot.

The well-organized attack package violated Indian airspace and took the IAF by surprise. In response, the Indians were able to send 8 of their aircraft from nearby bases to combat the enemy. However, only 1 Su-30 and 2 MiG-21 Bison fighters had a face-to-face encounter with the enemy. The Su-30 and one of the MiG-21s returned to their bases after "fury shots" from alleged Pakistani F-16 fighters. But one of the pilots did the unimaginable: disobeying ground control recommendations, crossed the Line of Control (LoC) and entered enemy airspace.

From then on, there was a succession of facts that to date have not been properly clarified. It is quite true that the brave Indian driver Abhinandan Varthaman's MiG-21 was shot down and the real cause of the shooting is still a mystery. The IAF, however, claims that before Abhinandan ejected and was captured, he shot down an F-16 fighter using an R-73 missile.


A series of “proofs” - such as radar images of EW and ground aircraft, transcription of Pakistani radio conversations, testimonials from Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir) residents, videos showing two ejections, among others - was assembled by the Indian Air Force, but Pakistan vehemently denies the loss of any aircraft, as well as showing no evidence of the 2 allegedly downed Indian aircraft (1 Su-30 and 1 MiG-21, both by J-17), nor how such clashes occurred. Worse: At first, Pakistan officially claimed the capture of 2 pilots and not using the F-16s in combat. A few days later both claims were dismissed by the Pakistanis themselves.

From the list of Pakistani “evidence” in this regard were presented the 4 missiles of the Abhinandan MiG-21 Bison - which Pakistan says fell with the 4 missiles intact. The missiles were presented on top of 4 beds in a low resolution photo. Then other photos were shown by various sources, but with only 1 or 2 of the missiles in the same photo. However, recent research shows serious evidence of “fraudulent evidence” in ALL photos submitted as evidence. This is the main object of our analysis.


Photo presented by Pakistan alleging the recovery of the wreckage of the 4 mig-21 missiles.
This photo was presented in April, more than a month after the fight (Photo: PAF).

Let's number the 4 table missiles from 1 to 4 from left to right. Number 1: A virtually intact R-73; number 2 is a fairly integer R-77; missile number 3 is a partially burned R-77; and number 4 is an R-73 that crashed into the pylon and caught fire along with the wreckage of the fuselage. Based on a high quality video (see below) taken at the MiG-21 crash site, we can identify various parts of these missiles in the wreckage.


Relevant excerpt from the “ Wreckage of Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison Shot Down By Pakistan Air Forcevideo posted on the Media Talk channel (if you prefer, click here to watch the full video on YouTube).

Our goal is not to say what each missile is or is not - this the Pakistanis have already done - but to show where each of the parts shown on the tables can be seen in the fall scenario.

Below, all parts of the missiles 2, 3 and 4, amid the wreckage, as well as the ammunition of the GSh-23 cannon (compare the photos of the missiles with the parts in the beds).

Fragment of the warhead and solid-propelled section of missile # 2, an R77 (image taken from the video).

Missile Searcher # 2 (image taken from video).

Front of # 2 missile at another angle and # 4 R77 and R73 finder (image taken from video).


Fragments that appear to be from missile # 2, search engine and front directional control section of missile # 4 (image taken from video).



Actuator fragment (tail control) of missile # 3, an R77 (image taken from video).



Wide view of where the front of missile # 3, an R77 (image taken from video) was found.



Search engine and inertial control system of missile No. 3, an R77 (image extracted from video).



Section housing solid propellant and directional control surfaces of # 4 missile (image taken from video).



Rear of R73 # 4 missile from another angle (image taken from video).



Seeker, # 4 missile front directional control system and one R77 actuator / tail control piece.
Note: This piece of R77 does not appear in the table shots (image taken from video).


MiG-21 23mm cannon ammunition (image taken from video).


Parts of missiles 3 and 4 appear in all official Pakistani photos as they were seen in the scenario. However, no part of missile # 1 (R-73 Archer) can be viewed in the video . Precisely the missile that the IAF claims Abhi used to kill the F-16. In the picture of the beds, you can see a practically new R-73. Did the Pakistanis go to the wreckage of the MiG and remove only one of the missiles from the scene? Unlikely.

In another photo, you can see missile # 1, and part of its serial number. The R-73 serial numbers, however, have 13 digits. The final two digits of the R-73's serial number were purposely covered by a cloth , according to the analysis of researcher and former Indian fighter pilot Sameer Joshi.


R-73 incomplete serial number with only 11 of 13 digits (Photo: Sameer Joshi)



R73 (1) and R77 (2) with suspected tampering in the same photo.
The R73 without the full serial and the R77 with a section that looks new and without the tail control back (Photo: Sameer Joshi)

The scary thing is knowing a replica of the R-73 can be yours for $ 225.


Replica R-73 missile for sale on e-Bay website (Image: e-Bay website screen).


Apart from the R-73 in question, the IAF does not allow any other missile to be fired by any of its fighters. That's where we have the “icing on the cake”. Looking at photos of missile # 2 (R-77 Adder), you can see strong evidence of tampering. The "million dollar question" is: why tamper with parts of a missile that the IAF confirms was not fired, instead of just taking the pieces that were in the wreck and presenting them, as was done with the missiles. 3 and 4?

By comparing the photos of the wreckage with the photos of the beds, it can be seen that some parts of the R-77, which are in the official photos, were replaced by parts in better condition. In other words, they are not burned, as can be seen in the wreckage. The missile section, just after the warhead (warhead), looks fresh out of the factory, with the fins very aligned for a major collision. In the wreckage, no similar section could be seen.


Two pieces of R77 2-missile actuator / tail control.
Only one of the parts (missile # 3) appears in the table photos (image taken from the video).

When we look at the picture of the beds, you can see that the final section of R-77 # 2 is not burnt.


Another photo presented by Pakistan, with four parts of missiles in a different order (Image: PAF).


The time to resolve any questions would be after the release of a high resolution photo of the R-77 # 2. The photo exists but, for reasons not yet revealed, omits the rear section of the R-77. Bottom line: There are 3 rear sections (where the directional fins are) for only 2 missiles.


Missile R77 with almost all its parts in the picture, only the actuator does not appear.
In the picture opposite, the missile actuator # 3. The photo of the missile actuator # 2 should be in the left photo (Image: PAF).

Many theories can be created after the discovery of an R-77 adulteration. Has Abhinandan been shot down by his own wingman , whose name remains confidential? Did Abhinandan make an unsuccessful R-77 shot right after his wingman was attacked with an AIM-120 shot? Was Pakistan using Chinese copies of the R-77 on its fighters?

All of these questions are unlikely. Most likely the R-77 was tampered with to validate the fake R-73 shown in the bedding photo. Two very well-maintained missiles on the same side of the plane give the idea that, depending on how the plane crashed into the ground, parts on the same side that fell after the crash were unaffected by the fire that destroyed the other parts of the aircraft. .


R73 (# 1 missile) in high resolution photo.
Absolutely none of its parts appears in the wreckage video. The actual missile was probably fired at the F-16 (Image: PAF).

But what about the tail of the plane, the nozzle, the drift and the sub-tank? These parts fell elsewhere. There is a video (see below) of Shiv Shastry, an Indian military writer, showing all these parts being collected and loaded into a Pakistani military truck. No weapons at the other parts of the wreck.

Finding out the veracity of an air combat kill is sometimes very complicated, which can last for decades. This is not our goal! But quite quickly and conclusively, India awarded Abhinandan Varthaman with a “Vir Chakra” (India's third largest battlefield heroic honor) in September 2019, understanding that his action repelled a package of attack aimed at targets on Indian territory, and that it shot down an invading aircraft.

By way of comparison, in the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, the IAF credited Indian Ajjimada Bopayya Devayya, then Mystére pilot, with the killing of a Pakistani F-104. He would later become a hero by chasing a Starfighter to help other IAF pilots who were being lured into a PAF-set trap. Even with the recognition of the IAF and its fellow pilots, the aforementioned pilot received his “Maha Vir Chakra” (posthumous) only in 1988. Ajjimada died after the crash of his Mystére in Pakistani territory, due to damage suffered in the fight against F- 104. Its merits were only recognized after India was very sure of its achievements.



Thus, it is very difficult to believe that the Indian Government would act lightly in awarding Abhinandan without any evidence of what he did. Especially at a time when collecting evidence is easier and faster due to available technologies.

In air combat, not always shooting means shooting down. It's fact! But with each new information that comes out, it becomes clearer that Abhinandan actually fired at least one air-to-air missile at opposing aircraft.


Everton Luiz Pedrosa
is a banker, designer and researcher of military history.
Graduated in industrial design, Everton is also a plastic model - assembles and collects models of military vehicles. Lives in Jaboatão dos Guararapes, next to Recife / PE. Has drawings and articles published in specialized military aviation and defense vehicles in Brazil and abroad.


https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://velhogeneral.com.br/2019/09/20/a-primeira-vitima/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&xid=17259,15700021,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265


This is the original article in Brazilian(portuguese) language

https://velhogeneral.com.br/2019/09/20/a-primeira-vitima/
 
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AMG_12

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Pakistan publicly invited all leading aviation experts to come and investigate. Perhaps he could pay a visit to Pakistan.
 

Telescopic Sight

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@Suriya : brilliant article ! How the heck did you find out about a Portuguese language article by way of Brazil??

And now I would love to hear some refutations from the PAF fans ....⏳
 

Lincoln

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Indo-Pakistani Conflict: The First Victim
Old General Guests
2 days ago





By Everton Luiz Pedroza *





In the Indo-Pakistani conflict earlier this year, the first victim - as in virtually all conflicts - seems to have been the truth.

On February 27, 2019, an attack package consisting of 24 PAF (Pakistan Air Force) aircraft flew into Kashmir to target targets on Indian territory. It was retaliation and came a day after the IAF (Indian Air Force) Mirage 2000 fighters bombarded with SPICE bombs an alleged terrorist training camp in Balakot.

The well-organized attack package violated Indian airspace and took the IAF by surprise. In response, the Indians were able to send 8 of their aircraft from nearby bases to combat the enemy. However, only 1 Su-30 and 2 MiG-21 Bison fighters had a face-to-face encounter with the enemy. The Su-30 and one of the MiG-21s returned to their bases after "fury shots" from alleged Pakistani F-16 fighters. But one of the pilots did the unimaginable: disobeying ground control recommendations, crossed the Line of Control (LoC) and entered enemy airspace.

From then on, there was a succession of facts that to date have not been properly clarified. It is quite true that the brave Indian driver Abhinandan Varthaman's MiG-21 was shot down and the real cause of the shooting is still a mystery. The IAF, however, claims that before Abhinandan ejected and was captured, he shot down an F-16 fighter using an R-73 missile.


A series of “proofs” - such as radar images of EW and ground aircraft, transcription of Pakistani radio conversations, testimonials from Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (Azad Kashmir) residents, videos showing two ejections, among others - was assembled by the Indian Air Force, but Pakistan vehemently denies the loss of any aircraft, as well as showing no evidence of the 2 allegedly downed Indian aircraft (1 Su-30 and 1 MiG-21, both by J-17), nor how such clashes occurred. Worse: At first, Pakistan officially claimed the capture of 2 pilots and not using the F-16s in combat. A few days later both claims were dismissed by the Pakistanis themselves.

From the list of Pakistani “evidence” in this regard were presented the 4 missiles of the Abhinandan MiG-21 Bison - which Pakistan says fell with the 4 missiles intact. The missiles were presented on top of 4 beds in a low resolution photo. Then other photos were shown by various sources, but with only 1 or 2 of the missiles in the same photo. However, recent research shows serious evidence of “fraudulent evidence” in ALL photos submitted as evidence. This is the main object of our analysis.


Photo presented by Pakistan alleging the recovery of the wreckage of the 4 mig-21 missiles.
This photo was presented in April, more than a month after the fight (Photo: PAF).

Let's number the 4 table missiles from 1 to 4 from left to right. Number 1: A virtually intact R-73; number 2 is a fairly integer R-77; missile number 3 is a partially burned R-77; and number 4 is an R-73 that crashed into the pylon and caught fire along with the wreckage of the fuselage. Based on a high quality video (see below) taken at the MiG-21 crash site, we can identify various parts of these missiles in the wreckage.


Relevant excerpt from the “ Wreckage of Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison Shot Down By Pakistan Air Forcevideo posted on the Media Talk channel (if you prefer, click here to watch the full video on YouTube).

Our goal is not to say what each missile is or is not - this the Pakistanis have already done - but to show where each of the parts shown on the tables can be seen in the fall scenario.

Below, all parts of the missiles 2, 3 and 4, amid the wreckage, as well as the ammunition of the GSh-23 cannon (compare the photos of the missiles with the parts in the beds).

Fragment of the warhead and solid-propelled section of missile # 2, an R77 (image taken from the video).

Missile Searcher # 2 (image taken from video).

Front of # 2 missile at another angle and # 4 R77 and R73 finder (image taken from video).


Fragments that appear to be from missile # 2, search engine and front directional control section of missile # 4 (image taken from video).



Actuator fragment (tail control) of missile # 3, an R77 (image taken from video).



Wide view of where the front of missile # 3, an R77 (image taken from video) was found.



Search engine and inertial control system of missile No. 3, an R77 (image extracted from video).



Section housing solid propellant and directional control surfaces of # 4 missile (image taken from video).



Rear of R73 # 4 missile from another angle (image taken from video).



Seeker, # 4 missile front directional control system and one R77 actuator / tail control piece.
Note: This piece of R77 does not appear in the table shots (image taken from video).


MiG-21 23mm cannon ammunition (image taken from video).


Parts of missiles 3 and 4 appear in all official Pakistani photos as they were seen in the scenario. However, no part of missile # 1 (R-73 Archer) can be viewed in the video . Precisely the missile that the IAF claims Abhi used to kill the F-16. In the picture of the beds, you can see a practically new R-73. Did the Pakistanis go to the wreckage of the MiG and remove only one of the missiles from the scene? Unlikely.

In another photo, you can see missile # 1, and part of its serial number. The R-73 serial numbers, however, have 13 digits. The final two digits of the R-73's serial number were purposely covered by a cloth , according to the analysis of researcher and former Indian fighter pilot Sameer Joshi.


R-73 incomplete serial number with only 11 of 13 digits (Photo: Sameer Joshi)



R73 (1) and R77 (2) with suspected tampering in the same photo.
The R73 without the full serial and the R77 with a section that looks new and without the tail control back (Photo: Sameer Joshi)

The scary thing is knowing a replica of the R-73 can be yours for $ 225.


Replica R-73 missile for sale on e-Bay website (Image: e-Bay website screen).


Apart from the R-73 in question, the IAF does not allow any other missile to be fired by any of its fighters. That's where we have the “icing on the cake”. Looking at photos of missile # 2 (R-77 Adder), you can see strong evidence of tampering. The "million dollar question" is: why tamper with parts of a missile that the IAF confirms was not fired, instead of just taking the pieces that were in the wreck and presenting them, as was done with the missiles. 3 and 4?

By comparing the photos of the wreckage with the photos of the beds, it can be seen that some parts of the R-77, which are in the official photos, were replaced by parts in better condition. In other words, they are not burned, as can be seen in the wreckage. The missile section, just after the warhead (warhead), looks fresh out of the factory, with the fins very aligned for a major collision. In the wreckage, no similar section could be seen.


Two pieces of R77 2-missile actuator / tail control.
Only one of the parts (missile # 3) appears in the table photos (image taken from the video).

When we look at the picture of the beds, you can see that the final section of R-77 # 2 is not burnt.


Another photo presented by Pakistan, with four parts of missiles in a different order (Image: PAF).


The time to resolve any questions would be after the release of a high resolution photo of the R-77 # 2. The photo exists but, for reasons not yet revealed, omits the rear section of the R-77. Bottom line: There are 3 rear sections (where the directional fins are) for only 2 missiles.


Missile R77 with almost all its parts in the picture, only the actuator does not appear.
In the picture opposite, the missile actuator # 3. The photo of the missile actuator # 2 should be in the left photo (Image: PAF).

Many theories can be created after the discovery of an R-77 adulteration. Has Abhinandan been shot down by his own wingman , whose name remains confidential? Did Abhinandan make an unsuccessful R-77 shot right after his wingman was attacked with an AIM-120 shot? Was Pakistan using Chinese copies of the R-77 on its fighters?

All of these questions are unlikely. Most likely the R-77 was tampered with to validate the fake R-73 shown in the bedding photo. Two very well-maintained missiles on the same side of the plane give the idea that, depending on how the plane crashed into the ground, parts on the same side that fell after the crash were unaffected by the fire that destroyed the other parts of the aircraft. .


R73 (# 1 missile) in high resolution photo.
Absolutely none of its parts appears in the wreckage video. The actual missile was probably fired at the F-16 (Image: PAF).

But what about the tail of the plane, the nozzle, the drift and the sub-tank? These parts fell elsewhere. There is a video (see below) of Shiv Shastry, an Indian military writer, showing all these parts being collected and loaded into a Pakistani military truck. No weapons at the other parts of the wreck.

Finding out the veracity of an air combat kill is sometimes very complicated, which can last for decades. This is not our goal! But quite quickly and conclusively, India awarded Abhinandan Varthaman with a “Vir Chakra” (India's third largest battlefield heroic honor) in September 2019, understanding that his action repelled a package of attack aimed at targets on Indian territory, and that it shot down an invading aircraft.

By way of comparison, in the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, the IAF credited Indian Ajjimada Bopayya Devayya, then Mystére pilot, with the killing of a Pakistani F-104. He would later become a hero by chasing a Starfighter to help other IAF pilots who were being lured into a PAF-set trap. Even with the recognition of the IAF and its fellow pilots, the aforementioned pilot received his “Maha Vir Chakra” (posthumous) only in 1988. Ajjimada died after the crash of his Mystére in Pakistani territory, due to damage suffered in the fight against F- 104. Its merits were only recognized after India was very sure of its achievements.



Thus, it is very difficult to believe that the Indian Government would act lightly in awarding Abhinandan without any evidence of what he did. Especially at a time when collecting evidence is easier and faster due to available technologies.

In air combat, not always shooting means shooting down. It's fact! But with each new information that comes out, it becomes clearer that Abhinandan actually fired at least one air-to-air missile at opposing aircraft.


Everton Luiz Pedrosa
is a banker, designer and researcher of military history.
Graduated in industrial design, Everton is also a plastic model - assembles and collects models of military vehicles. Lives in Jaboatão dos Guararapes, next to Recife / PE. Has drawings and articles published in specialized military aviation and defense vehicles in Brazil and abroad.


https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://velhogeneral.com.br/2019/09/20/a-primeira-vitima/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&xid=17259,15700021,15700186,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265
First thing first, he is not neutral. The first paragraph shows that clearly. Pakistan Occupied Kashmir? 8 IAF jets? Brave Abhinandan pilot?

Bring in something better, his analysis is also wrong. He has only gone about stuff already covered, and tried to throw shade.

"Cloth infront of 2 serial numbers," as if that matters.

"You can get a replica for $225," interesting he mentions this knowing well enough that the missiles can be seen in wreckage. And thinks that a wooden model apparently has a metal core as in pictures?

What exactly makes him an aviation expert?

Edit: Searched his name on google. Only this forum, and that one article shows up. Nothing, and absolutely nothing else. Nothing else.
 
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Telescopic Sight

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First thing first, he is not neutral. The first paragraph shows that clearly. Pakistan Occupied Kashmir? 8 IAF jets? Brave Abhinandan pilot?

Bring in something better, his analysis is also wrong. He has only gone about stuff already covered, and tried to throw shade.

"Cloth infront of 2 serial numbers," as if that matters.

"You can get a replica for $225," interesting he mentions this knowing well enough that the missiles can be seen in wreckage. And thinks that a wooden model apparently has a metal core as in pictures?

What exactly makes him an aviation expert?
curious to know how you can differentiate between metal and other materials in these pics ?
 

Lincoln

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@Suriya : brilliant article ! How the heck did you find out about a Portuguese language article by way of Brazil??

And now I would love to hear some refutations from the PAF fans ....⏳
What do you want to hear? He apparently can't comprehend the idea that all pieces in the wreckage could not be seen in the video, the missiles were not in one piece and thinks wooden models from ebay have a metal core.

curious to know how you can differentiate between metal and other materials in these pics ?
I don't know, can you see the metal lining in the picture he tried toasting or you're just as blind?

curious to know how you can differentiate between metal and other materials in these pics ?
The missiles are dissected. Look again. You can see they're metal and not wooden like the replica on ebay.
 

Thorough Pro

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Even if an indian dog barked or an indian monkey showed signs of constipation, Indians would bring that as proof to save their ego.................Pakistani's please stop debating with them on the subject, let them bark or sit on their constipation we know what our AF did and their non-stop efforts to prove otherwise is a proof in itself that IAF got the taste of their national sport at hands of PAF
 

Sine Nomine

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27th was a lie
-Missile were purchased from e-bay.
-Mig 21 was purchased from Amazon
-Abhi was purchased from Ali baba.
None of them belonged to Bharat.
Bhartiyo ab so jao.
PS:-I havn't read about so idiot and gullible people even in history books,something shown on T.V is wrong while something claimed on T.V from thin air is right.
 
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Suriya

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27th was a lie
-Missile were purchased from e-bay.
-Mig 21 was purchased from Amazon
-Abhi was purchased from Ali baba.
None of them belonged to Bharat.
Bhartiyo ab so jao.
The OP views were of an international expert Everton Pedroza and not that of indians.
 

kris

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Pakistan publicly invited all leading aviation experts to come and investigate. Perhaps he could pay a visit to Pakistan.
Even from the start paf press releases were in grey zone.
They didn't release the numbers on these missiles which added doubts
 
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