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Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

Huffal

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India will have more K 9 than oak army howitzers

And israeli artilery is also under consideration ATHOS
Not really. In this domain (spg) pakistan dominates. 389 m109 (a2, a5 and L variants) and now 250+ sh15.

Compared to Indias 100 k9 (200 more ordered)
 

iLION12345_1

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Not really. In this domain (spg) pakistan dominates. 389 m109 (a2, a5 and L variants) and now 250+ sh15.

Compared to Indias 100 k9 (200 more ordered)
Pakistan received in excess of 500 M109s.
115 M109A5
200+ M109A2 (most of these are modernized to either M109A5 or M109A2M)
150+ M109L.

However not all of them are in service, some of the M109Ls at least were bought for spares.

I’d still guess we have 400+ operational. Add to that the 60-70 M110A2s and now modern SPGs in the form of SH15 (and one more platform might be on the way :))

PA has over 600 SPGs in service with several hundred more planned.

However, IA has a much larger and more modern tower artillery fleet, thats just more down to doctrine, hopefully PA will get a new platform in that regard soon too, I pray HITs proposal passes the army trials.
 

Inception-06

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Pakistan received in excess of 500 M109s.
115 M109A5
200+ M109A2 (most of these are modernized to either M109A5 or M109A2M)
150+ M109L.

However not all of them are in service, some of the M109Ls at least were bought for spares.

I’d still guess we have 400+ operational. Add to that the 60-70 M110A2s and now modern SPGs in the form of SH15 (and one more platform might be on the way :))

PA has over 600 SPGs in service with several hundred more planned.

However, IA has a much larger and more modern tower artillery fleet, thats just more down to doctrine, hopefully PA will get a new platform in that regard soon too, I pray HITs proposal passes the army trials.

What are the strategic and tactical doctrine and thoughts regarding deployment, role, advantage and disadvantage, maintenance circles of this Artillery System ?
 

iLION12345_1

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@PanzerKiel Could we be seeing a M109 upgrade or replacement program (for the Older versions) anytime soon
I don’t think they’ll get upgraded, but they won’t be retired anytime soon either, they’ve got lots of life left in them. They’ll just get supplanted by the more modern artillery where needed. There is not all that much difference in the performance of M109A5s and M109A2/M109L. Keep in mind that PA M109A2s also have some basic upgrades to keep them relevant.
 

iLION12345_1

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Sorry, I was at work when I tipped hastily, the SH-15 please ( are the SH-15s suitable for the Desert warfare ..) .
No problem. The SH-15 is actually a rather smart choice by the PA. I like that They didn’t pick a tracked option because frankly all the tracked options based off the M109, including the K9 inducted by india, the T-155 from Turkey and most versions of the M109 (even the new A7s) are honestly just average at best. They have fundamental design flaws that can’t be fixed unless they are redesigned from the ground up (one of the reasons countries like Germany, Britain etc retired their M109s and made their own guns).

The Chinese and Russian tracked SPs on the other hand are really impressive. I’m totally speculating here, but if PA does go all in on SH-15s, we might see PLZ-05s as a future replacement option for PAs M109s as well. I assume PAs decision to go for a wheeled SP was also influenced by cost and versatility, PAs doctrine focuses a lot on SPs and they already have nearly 600 tracked ones, yet they want a significantly larger number, so going for wheeled makes sense, especially ones with dedicated transport platforms underneath that shouldn’t have much of an issue in any terrain, even our deserts (especially when the engineers operate with them). While tracked SPs offer their own distinct advantages, These are more mobile than tracked SPs and they also out range Indias K9s while also being cheaper.

I’m mildly surprised PA went for the SH-15 given it doesn’t have an auto-loader and they wanted one on their next SP (I was expecting them to pick the South African or Serbian option), but then again this one’s from China so they likely got much a much better deal + ToT + interoperability with the rest of the assets like VT-4 and Z-10ME. Plus the SH-15 due to this lack of auto-loader is much lighter, hence more mobile, and also cheaper, while having a gun that’s just as, if not more capable than the other options.
China was even willing to modify the guns to Pakistani specifications, as they always are. That being said, PA might go for two separate new SP artys due to the aforementioned auto-loader (and other requirements), they do seem to be conducting second trials after all, so we’ll see where thag goes.

But in a nutshell, the performance of this thing is no issue, I don’t know how any of the guns performed in actual trials, but they were literally all good picks on paper (Nora B52, SH-15, South African G6 etc) , I’d have been happy if PA picked any single one. Now I hope PA starts catching up on the towed artillery side of things too, because india dominates that field as much as we dominate the SPs.
 

Inception-06

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No problem. The SH-15 is actually a rather smart choice by the PA. I like that They didn’t pick a tracked option because frankly all the tracked options based off the M109, including the K9 inducted by india, the T-155 from Turkey and most versions of the M109 (even the new A7s) are honestly just average at best. They have fundamental design flaws that can’t be fixed unless they are redesigned from the ground up (one of the reasons countries like Germany, Britain etc retired their M109s and made their own guns).

The Chinese and Russian tracked SPs on the other hand are really impressive. I’m totally speculating here, but if PA does go all in on SH-15s, we might see PLZ-05s as a future replacement option for PAs M109s as well. I assume PAs decision to go for a wheeled SP was also influenced by cost and versatility, PAs doctrine focuses a lot on SPs and they already have nearly 600 tracked ones, yet they want a significantly larger number, so going for wheeled makes sense, especially ones with dedicated transport platforms underneath that shouldn’t have much of an issue in any terrain, even our deserts (especially when the engineers operate with them). While tracked SPs offer their own distinct advantages, These are more mobile than tracked SPs and they also out range Indias K9s while also being cheaper.

I’m mildly surprised PA went for the SH-15 given it doesn’t have an auto-loader and they wanted one on their next SP (I was expecting them to pick the South African or Serbian option), but then again this one’s from China so they likely got much a much better deal + ToT + interoperability with the rest of the assets like VT-4 and Z-10ME. Plus the SH-15 due to this lack of auto-loader is much lighter, hence more mobile, and also cheaper, while having a gun that’s just as, if not more capable than the other options.
China was even willing to modify the guns to Pakistani specifications, as they always are. That being said, PA might go for two separate new SP artys due to the aforementioned auto-loader (and other requirements), they do seem to be conducting second trials after all, so we’ll see where thag goes.

But in a nutshell, the performance of this thing is no issue, I don’t know how any of the guns performed in actual trials, but they were literally all good picks on paper (Nora B52, SH-15, South African G6 etc) , I’d have been happy if PA picked any single one. Now I hope PA starts catching up on the towed artillery side of things too, because india dominates that field as much as we dominate the SPs.
Very well written and explained you should write for ISPR or @Quwa !
 

Inception-06

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