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White privilege

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You are very close..
The bird just looks outdated with that rotating dome. Now is the era of electronically scanned arrays. I believe it was revealed on this forum that one of the aircraft had an ESA installed recently, so they are trying to make it fit. But it is well known how Chinese create compromises to achieve certain performance parameters. So it would be interesting to know how much performance upgrade potential is there. Also when we got them, the goal was to not get marooned if sanctions kick in during hostilities and Erieyes are affected. I hope upcoming indigenous solutions rectify these problems.
 

FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

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Horse_Rider

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I think the number of AWEC is 11.

4 erieye ordered originally (2 damaged, 1 destroyed, but all were apparently restored/repaired to working order.

3 erieye ordered in 2017

4 ZDK-03
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11 AWEC : still more than most other nations. Only ones with more are:

1. USA - 87 split between navy and AF
2. China - 28 split between Navy and AF
3. Russia - 16 only AF
4. Japan - 17 Split between navy and "defense force"
5. NATO - 16

3+3+2+4 (Erieye + ZDK) = 12. You are right, it's a decent sized number and counts for 40% losses in a war yet still cover the entire country and it's coastline + EEZ.

Can't compare our AEWC capability with others. US, China, Russia, Japan and NATO have HUGE OTH Radars (UV/UHF/VLF/Broad Spectrum, etc,), plus shipborne radars like the Aegis systems, that can literally see and track hundreds of objects including small missiles from thousands of miles away. In these scenarios, the AEWC is rather focus for tactical support for battlefield operations.
 

Horse_Rider

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Bombardier based global eye on cards for PAF in next few years

No need to. When the Erieye will go for a mid-life upgrade, they will automatically be upgraded to the Global Eye standard. Global Eye is not a separate system, it's a more advanced version of what Pakistan has.

I hope the PAF acquires AKINCI with AESA and use those as much cheaper AEW options. 4 Akinci's with 350+ KM AESA can provide amazing low cost AEW support to our existing AEW systems and can cover the entire Pakistan and the coastline. Plus, these can actually carry BVR missiles at the same time too, so they can not only provide early warning, they can actually respond with BVR weapons.
 
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Tank131

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No need to. When the Erieye will go for a mid-life upgrade, they will automatically be upgraded to the Global Eye standard. Global Eye is not a separate system, it's a more advanced version of what Pakistan has.

I hope the PAF acquires AKINCI with AESA and use those as much cheaper AEW options. 4 Akinci's with 350+ KM AESA can provide amazing low cost AEW support to our existing AEW systems and can cover the entire Pakistan and the coastline. Plus, these can actually carry BVR missiles at the same time too, so they can not only provide early warning, they can actually respond with BVR weapons.
I think this is something the navy should also be able to utilize well. Instead of routing ZDK to Navy for assistance, having a stealthier and smaller aircraft like Akinci for the navy which can not only utilize BVR missiles but also use SOM, will make a huge impact for PN. They can be used as drone swarms with 2 BVR AND a SOM to overwhelm any IN task force when used in conjunction with JF-17.
 

Horse_Rider

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The bird just looks outdated with that rotating dome. Now is the era of electronically scanned arrays.

The US still uses rotating domes on E-3 Sentry and E-3's run wars, infact multiple wars at certain times in the history managing many dozens of airborn and ground assets. So rotating radar doesn't mean anything.

The ZDK-03 is not pulse doppler if that's what you were trying to say. The ZDK-03 is a customized KJ-500, it has TWO rotating AESA radars so it's the latest capability any nation can have. It should have larger range than the Erieyes and a full 360 degree view.

I think this is something the navy should also be able to utilize well. Instead of routing ZDK to Navy for assistance, having a stealthier and smaller aircraft like Akinci for the navy which can not only utilize BVR missiles but also use SOM, will make a huge impact for PN. They can be used as drone swarms with 2 BVR AND a SOM to overwhelm any IN task force when used in conjunction with JF-17.

I agree. But larger numbers of Akinci's will be needed to create an effective volley of SOM's, plus use J-10CP's, not JF-17 as it's still lighter. The Ukraine war teaches us how the current airdefenses can take out up to 70%+ invading subsonic missiles. We need large numbers of supersonic cruise missiles (sea, land, air) akin to the Prithvi (high machs, near hypersonic speeds).
 

Tank131

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The US still uses rotating domes on E-3 Sentry and E-3's run wars, infact multiple wars at certain times in the history managing many dozens of airborn and ground assets. So rotating radar doesn't mean anything.

The ZDK-03 is not pulse doppler if that's what you were trying to say. The ZDK-03 is a customized KJ-500, it has TWO rotating AESA radars so it's the latest capability any nation can have. It should have larger range than the Erieyes and a full 360 degree view.



I agree. But larger numbers of Akinci's will be needed to create an effective volley of SOM's, plus use J-10CP's, not JF-17 as it's still lighter. The Ukraine war teaches us how the current airdefenses can take out up to 70%+ invading subsonic missiles. We need large numbers of supersonic cruise missiles (sea, land, air) akin to the Prithvi (high machs, near hypersonic speeds).
With respect to hypersonic missiles, CM-302 and CM-400AKG should be able to take care of that role. The SOM (which frankly should be acquired for UCAV use) an other subsonic missiles are still not without their use however. Launching a number of Zarb (c-602) from land, SOM from Akinci and harbah from various PN Ships like Baburs and Azmats will likely deplete if not overwhelm if IN Ships. Remember, besides other Visakhapatnam-class and Kalkota class destroyers which have 32 Barak-8, none of the other IN ships are well suited to take out numerous missiles at once. Most of their otger destroyers and frigates operate single armed Shtil launchers which fire 1 missile every 10 seconds (not conducive to taking out numerous missiles). These are backed by Barak-1 in most cases which leaves a lot to be desired.
 

Horse_Rider

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With respect to hypersonic missiles, CM-302 and CM-400AKG should be able to take care of that role. The SOM (which frankly should be acquired for UCAV use) an other subsonic missiles are still not without their use however. Launching a number of Zarb (c-602) from land, SOM from Akinci and harbah from various PN Ships like Baburs and Azmats will likely deplete if not overwhelm if IN Ships. Remember, besides other Visakhapatnam-class and Kalkota class destroyers which have 32 Barak-8, none of the other IN ships are well suited to take out numerous missiles at once. Most of their otger destroyers and frigates operate single armed Shtil launchers which fire 1 missile every 10 seconds (not conducive to taking out numerous missiles). These are backed by Barak-1 in most cases which leaves a lot to be desired.

You are looking at today. I'm looking at tomorrow when a conflict arises. India is bound to either buy or build and deploy an AEGIS like AEW - AD system. The US would want that so it's missile defense system becomes universal and obviously, India gets huge benefit out of it. So in that scenario and compare to Ukraine now, if S-300 MPU could take out 70%+ inbound subsonic cruise missiles, that's bound to happen in our case too. Probably more so as India is a much larger economy and country vs. the Ukraine and can deploy a huge number of AD's. We on the other hand are smaller with much less money. We can't afford 70% of our missiles shot down as we may not have enough post volley 2 or 3!

Now compare the 70%+ loss of subsonic missiles with say Kinzahl. Not ONE was shot down. In fact, in the early days, when Ukraine was begging for AD systems post Kinzahl's use, a reporter asked Biden and he referred to Kinzahl saying "there is nothing that can stop it". The issue was, these were Russian strategic missiles against NATO so they couldn't use them over and over. This scenario applies to us too. Need high mach (4+) missiles in numbers (near Hypersonic spectrum if not Hypersonic). India acquired Prithvi learning these realities. We need numbers of CM-302 and CM-400 AKG. Do you know their speed?
 

Super Falcon

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I wanna have a comparison between the Israel made "Phalcon" and Swedish made "Eireye". In which areas Phalcon Radar is better than or have an edge on Eireye or none.

Remember, In 1986 Pakistan did attempt to acquire a AWACS aircraft E-3 Sentinel from US however the U.S didnt sell it and instead offered the sub-par E-2 Hawkeye. And Phalcon is a similar kind of system as E-3.

View attachment 50626

I have gone through some article according to them Pakistani govrnment made so many blunders in late 70's and 1980's one of them was to disapprove the deal for the production of Mirage-F1 fighters at KAMRA and later Mirage-2000. It was totally approved my french government and US has nothing to do with that too that time.
Phalcons AWACS is much more sophisticated technology than E 3 santry even USAF want to retire them India have better AWACS in phalcons system it's radars give iaf 360 degree coverage pak erimeye only has 300 degree coverage and phalcons can track much more threats at longer ranges of UpTo 700 km with it's ELM 2090 aesa radar pak erieye only tracks less number of targets

IAF will have more AWACS with its domestically built netra similar to erieye netra awacs


 

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