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Pakistan's acquisition of Chinese J-10C fighter jets significant for both sides: analysts

S.Y.A

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However, the J-10 doesn’t qualitatively overmatch the twin-engine Dassault Rafale, which has a superior thrust-to-weight ratio, and likely boasts a more capable AESA radar and self-defense jammer. Some cynics therefore claim the buy Islamabad’s inability to pursue other options, and at least one Pakistani politician has criticized a J-10 buy, arguing Pakistan should invest in domestically developed jets.


The Rafale offers certain advantages over the J-10, including highly advanced avionics, electronic warfare systems, and a potentially wider range of weapons, among them ramjet-powered Meteor BVR missiles, as well as superior all-round performance. Nevertheless, the Chinese fighter signals that the PAF is at least keeping pace with wider air combat developments by acquiring a similar ‘4.5 generation’ fighter. Furthermore, its combination of advanced sensors, including AESA, plus PL-15 missiles, would likely give it an edge over most of the IAF’s other fighter types in many situations.

J10s are no doubt a big step up for PAF. the biggest advantage that I can see is this: PAF can get their hands on more J10s ASAP if a war breaks out (through Chinese surplus or loans or whatever). they will also fit in nicely with the Block-3s.
 

White and Green with M/S

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Chihuaha vs Pitbull (Type 346B GaN AESA Radar onboard Type 055 Cruiser)
Yeah rite :D

aRKp7q2_700b.jpg
What's is the proofs that your Type 55 cruiser is using GaN AESA?
 

White and Green with M/S

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China 055 destroyer used dual band AESA S and X Band which currently only deploy by USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier. Horizon class AESA are a step below.

China EW capabilities are demonstrated by PAF JF-17 blk 2 during the 27 Feb 2019 LOC war. You can ask @Windjammer for more info. A main reason why PAF won the conflict.
Lol on Feb 2019 system fight system not fighter jet vs fighter jet and what jf-17 block 2 demonstrate I think NOTHING other than taking escort for our attacking mirages, Indian coms were jamed by our French ECM aircraft and Swedish AWACS
 

Daniel808

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Beast

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Lol on Feb 2019 system fight system not fighter jet vs fighter jet and what jf-17 block 2 demonstrate I think NOTHING other than taking escort for our attacking mirages, Indian coms were jamed by our French ECM aircraft and Swedish AWACS
Why not you ask @Windjammer instead acting as pro when you know nothing? lol..

Btw, EW and AWACS are all useless and show only according to you... You still think now is WWII? Fighter vs fighter only?
 

casual

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J-10C = Cost effective 4+ generation solution
Rafale F3R = Costly 4+ generation solution (performance maximization considerations)

J-10C is equipped with a single engine while Rafale F3R is equipped with two engines (more engine power).

"The most important of these sensors is undoubtedly the RBE2-AA AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar. The current RBE2-AA radar uses Gallium Arsenide (GaAs) T/R (Transducer) modules. The radar can scan an area of 140° and has a range of over 200 km. The high output power and long-range of the radar allows Rafale to use long-range air-to-air missiles like Meteor. Instead of a mechanically rotating antenna, the T/R modules on the radar array are electronically directed, independently of each other. Thus, the radar can operate in more than one mode at the same time. While searching and tracking air targets, it can simultaneously create a terrain profile for low-altitude flight and generate high-resolution maps for navigation and targeting."

Source: Defense Turkey (Volume = 15; Issue = 103; Year = 2020)

However, the J-10 doesn’t qualitatively overmatch the twin-engine Dassault Rafale, which has a superior thrust-to-weight ratio, and likely boasts a more capable AESA radar and self-defense jammer. Some cynics therefore claim the buy Islamabad’s inability to pursue other options, and at least one Pakistani politician has criticized a J-10 buy, arguing Pakistan should invest in domestically developed jets.


The Rafale offers certain advantages over the J-10, including highly advanced avionics, electronic warfare systems, and a potentially wider range of weapons, among them ramjet-powered Meteor BVR missiles, as well as superior all-round performance. Nevertheless, the Chinese fighter signals that the PAF is at least keeping pace with wider air combat developments by acquiring a similar ‘4.5 generation’ fighter. Furthermore, its combination of advanced sensors, including AESA, plus PL-15 missiles, would likely give it an edge over most of the IAF’s other fighter types in many situations.


Absolutely.

J-10C is a fairly advanced jet fighter of its class and PAF can utilize it effectively against IAF when necessary. PAF is known to produce more capable pilots on average, and also has superiority in network-centric operations.

Link 17 is making it possible for the PAF to operate jet fighters such as J-10C and JF-17 variants in conjunction with AEW&C aircraft in network-centric capacity.

- - - - -

Chinese J-16 platform is very impressive as well (performance maximization considerations). Credit where due.
Based on available info, engine output is pretty similar. WS-10B at ~140kN vs 2x M88 at 73kN

And I wouldn't give avionics and EW advantage to rafale like the article you linked. The article also did not support this claim with any evidence.

Hope PAF will do some exercises with countries with rafales and we can know more.
 

White and Green with M/S

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LeGenD

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Based on available info, engine output is pretty similar. WS-10B at ~140kN vs 2x M88 at 73kN

And I wouldn't give avionics and EW advantage to rafale like the article you linked. The article also did not support this claim with any evidence.

Hope PAF will do some exercises with countries with rafales and we can know more.
WS-10B can produce thrust of 89 kN in normal use. You mentioned afterburner kN rating of the engine.

2 x Snecma M88 engines produce combined thrust of 100 kN in normal use and can approach 150 kN mark with afterburner(s).

But afterburner(s) are not commonly used in times of war because excessive heat signatures will draw attention.

As for the avionics and EW capabilities of J-10C, China needs to provide more information in this regard. Not much but good enough to facilitate rough comparisons with Rafale F3R in discourses. Speculations are not helpful.
 

applesauce

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I would not put china's electronics behind france.
considering that fact that that us military is considering MAD in the electromagnetic space in any conflict with china, in which they just deploy wide band jamming and give up any attempts at EW dominance, should tell you a lot about what the us thinks of chinese EW capabilities.

the us would not even entertain such a notion, that they cannot come up ahead in the electromagnetic space during war, against any other nation on earth.
 

casual

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WS-10B can produce thrust of 89 kN in normal use. You mentioned afterburner kN rating.

2 x Snecma M88 engines produce combined thrust of 100 kN in normal use and can approach 150 kN mark with afterburner(s).

Afterburner(s) are not commonly used in times of war due to increased risk of being noticed.

As for the avionics and EW capabilities of J-10C, China needs to provide more information in this regard. Not much but good enough to facilitate rough comparisons with Rafale F3R in discourses. Speculations are not helpful.
China sees its secrecy as a strategic advantage so don't expect it to release any docs just to challenge an article. Like I said, this is all just speculation. Maybe the next PAF exercise against Qatar we will have a chance for a head to head.
 

LeGenD

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China sees its secrecy as a strategic advantage so don't expect it to release any docs just to challenge an article. Like I said, this is all just speculation. Maybe the next PAF exercise against Qatar we will have a chance for a head to head.
Dude,

China have disclosed much about J-16 in comparison to J-10C by now. Why do you think this is the case? Because J-16 is LEGIT. China can literally show to the world what J-16 is packing with confidence.

Every defense article in use has classified aspects to it including Rafale F3R. There is no need to disclose much but good enough to facilitate rough comparisons.
 

casual

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Dude,

China have disclosed much about J-16 in comparison to J-10C by now. Why do you think this is the case? Because J-16 is LEGIT. China can literally show to the world what J-16 is packing with confidence.

Every defense article in use has classified aspects to it including Rafale F3R. There is no need to disclose much but good enough to facilitate rough comparisons.
This argument is pointless. Now that PAF has J-10s, just wait for PAF to disclose detailed specs.
 

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