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Pakistan's 1st ever metro train service starts commercial operation in Lahore

N.Siddiqui

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The bus service looks pretty good with heavy usage. I believe it was nawaz Sharif who initiated this .
So why so much dislike for him , he seems to be giving actual useful facilities to ordinary Pakistanis ? I believe he was responsible for the excellent motorways in Pakistan with daewoo in the 90s. He might be corrupt but Pakistan seems to get pretty good facilities with him incharge.
Let's face it 150 jf17s at 30 crore a pop , equals 4500 cr and might find no use before being scrapped. India is wary of the f16s , jf17 just make up the numbers. The bus and motorways seem to be a much sweeter use of scarce funds.

Read in other thread about the Lahore surroundings from the Orange Metro not looking good, this Orange line Metro passes through the old city area, and are north east of Lahore a rather old congested area mostly, and the area around is lower middle to lower class, with some area with small factories and Iron forgeries and other small industries.

Rest of Lahore in area about 70% is well planned and developed, with green boulevards, good grid and symmetrical planning of housing estates. Lahore is a bit like Delhi the old area and the new areas divided and different.


Check this video of Mall road Lahore...

 

Kabira

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Read in other thread about the Lahore surroundings from the Orange Metro not looking good, this Orange line Metro passes through the old city area, and are north east of Lahore a rather old congested area mostly, and the area around is lower middle to lower class, with some area with small factories and Iron forgeries and other small industries.

Rest of Lahore in area about 70% is well planned and developed, with green boulevards, good grid and symmetrical planning of housing estates. Lahore is a bit like Delhi the old area and the new areas divided and different.


Check this video of Mall road Lahore...

Horizontal expansion have failed in Lahore, with 80% of plots being empty on city limits. Now trend of living in relatively cheaper flats and closer to city center. And with it many of these old houses are being demolished for high rise apartments.

"This rise in demand has also left an impact on prices of flats in the city, where the average price of a 3-bedroom apartment rose up by 27%, while the 5-marla houses (featuring 3 bedrooms) increased by a mere 10%. Consequently, the demand and the value of land for old houses in various areas and neighbourhoods that are suitable for construction of apartment projects is increasing constantly.

Gulberg is one such examples, where many old houses are being demolished to replace them with high-rise buildings featuring a variety of apartment units. The limited number of empty plots available here are also selling like hot cakes as developers and real estate builders are aware of the neighbourhood’s importance in the real estate sector."

 

RealNapster

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Fantastic! :tup:
Other major cities should demand similar investment in their overall infrastructure and also public transport.
An investment that will require 13 billion rupees Subsidies every year ? No thanks. Instead what we need is vehicle checks and balance, ban on vehicles older then 2000 and Metro Busses connecting every major road in a city.

Replicate this in every city.
 

N.Siddiqui

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Horizontal expansion have failed in Lahore, with 80% of plots being empty on city limits. Now trend of living in relatively cheaper flats and closer to city center. And with it many of these old houses are being demolished for high rise apartments.
The reason is a mushroom growth of housing societies, now in hundreds around Lahore, initially they were catering to the rising demand of the city Lahore, but now reached a saturation point with agriculture land purchased cheaply and developed with roads and infra and sold for huge profit.

This horizontal expansion has its pros and cons...spreading out means less congestion, open and wide areas for home and roads, not much burden on sewerage and water, utilities.

The negatives are precious agri land ending up in housing societies, and that could lead to scare resources and food inflation and scarcity...

Newer areas need to be developed with not just plots marked and with roads and utilities, need to be sustainable, independent towns with schools/colleges, office areas, CBD, central business districts and self sufficient, with no need to come to Lahore downtown.

The new trend as you mentioned need to be regularized and planned, otherwise big apt. blocks and Plazas on Gulberg boulevard, elsewhere will ruin the areas.
 

Enigma SIG

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The bus service looks pretty good with heavy usage. I believe it was nawaz Sharif who initiated this .
So why so much dislike for him , he seems to be giving actual useful facilities to ordinary Pakistanis ? I believe he was responsible for the excellent motorways in Pakistan with daewoo in the 90s. He might be corrupt but Pakistan seems to get pretty good facilities with him incharge.
Let's face it 150 jf17s at 30 crore a pop , equals 4500 cr and might find no use before being scrapped. India is wary of the f16s , jf17 just make up the numbers. The bus and motorways seem to be a much sweeter use of scarce funds.
So much love for Nawaz from across the border. I have an idea that can benefit us both.
Why don't you take him and install him as PM so he can give "actual useful facilities" for ordinary Indians?
Newer areas need to be developed with not just plots marked and with roads and utilities, need to be sustainable, independent towns with schools/colleges, office areas, CBD, central business districts and self sufficient, with no need to come to Lahore downtown.

The new trend as you mentioned need to be regularized and planned, otherwise big apt. blocks and Plazas on Gulberg boulevard, elsewhere will ruin the areas.
We do not have a proper Urban Planning ministry. Apartments are cropping up without calculating how traffic flow will be impacted in surrounding areas. Traffic in Lahore is unbearable. Not a day goes by when your STATIONARY car doesn't get hit by motorcycles. It has come to the point where I do not give an F anymore about body damage to my vehicle.
 

N.Siddiqui

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So much love for Nawaz from across the border. I have an idea that can benefit us both.
Why don't you take him and install him as PM so he can give "actual useful facilities" for ordinary Indians?
:p:
We do not have a proper Urban Planning ministry. Apartments are cropping up without calculating how traffic flow will be impacted in surrounding areas. Traffic in Lahore is unbearable. Not a day goes by when your STATIONARY car doesn't get hit by motorcycles. It has come to the point where I do not give an F anymore about body damage to my vehicle.

It need to be a mix of public transport like BRTS, normal public buses in large numbers on city roads and no need for separate corridors and elevated tracks. Metro rail more corridors, though this is quite expensive and requires dismantling roads and services for long periods.

Current Orange Line Metro is constructed in the wrong area of the city, I am afraid.

I am a bit skeptical of the commuters as this route is congested but there are not many office goers, school/college going commuters living here, who commutes daily and who makes up the bulk of travelers the world over. This is a myth that highly congested area will bring in more rail METRO commuters, this is not true. People running small shops/khokas/puncture shops and Karianas will not travel here and if this was politically selected to gets votes from poor people, this would be a horrible 300 billion Rs. mistake...hope it succeed with more passengers.
 
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xyx007

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We all understand orange train is never make a sense a part of cpec route and what type of benefit will get it .only it politically benefit to nawaz and shahbaz in punjab election.
 

N.Siddiqui

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Pakistanis express happiness over 1st ever metro train










And almost all the METRO infra, the elevated corridors, girders and slabs, the utilities are all constructed by the local Pakistani company Habib Construction, of the Lahore Orange Line METRO.


Habib Construction, Precasting Yard for Lahore Orange Line Metro Train Project

This is near Lahore city on M-2 Motorway.

 
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Jungibaaz

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An investment that will require 13 billion rupees Subsidies every year ? No thanks. Instead what we need is vehicle checks and balance, ban on vehicles older then 2000 and Metro Busses connecting every major road in a city.

Replicate this in every city.
I disagree. People always say this about major infrastructure projects and in particular about public transit and rail. It is expensive yes, but the economic benefits associated with it are equally huge and very hard to quantify.

Here in London, the UK government has been heavily criticized for cost overrunning and major delays to Crossrail, which is a modern railway line that runs from west of London in Reading all the way through major urban areas of London to the East. It has cost the tax payer GBP20bn (that's a whopping PKR4.15tn in today's terms, or more than half of Pakistan's federal annual budget). The cost increases and delays are far far greater than anything we've seen in Pakistan with metrobus projects or orange line. However, the need is so dire that there is no choice but to expand the rail network and improve transit times from the suburbs and outside London to the city. The city has become unlivable, and the government judges that crossrail despite running large operating deficits, will generate FAR more income in the city some GBP42bn it was estimated a while back.

Public transport networks most places in the world are run on subsidies, they are not there to make operating surplus or generate profit. They are a publicly funded merit goods in economic terms. Government's local and national everywhere in the world run deficits (operate at a loss), the point is for them to distribute funds in such a way to maximise economic benefit, boost economic growth, and to undertake highly beneficial large scale projects that the private sector can't or won't (e.g public transport networks, R&D and space etc.). If governments everywhere suddenly began to only spend what they earn in taxes (or even a surplus), the net effect is that they would be actively deflating and shrinking their economies. I can tell you that London operates a gigantic public transport network, and a very costly one, but if it shut down for a few days and the losses to the economy are staggering, and equally long term without these projects your cities cannot expand, your economic activity will suffer, businesses suffer and flexibility of the labour suffers too.

I know I wouldn't be able to work where I do if the public transport network that I use daily were not in place. My journey would conservatively increase to 3-4 hours per day if I were forced to drive to work which doesn't include the hundreds of thousands of cars that would clog the city's roads.

And that's just London, our subsidies and operating losses aren't even that big. Take the light blue part of the charts of the other major cities below:

1604235930086.png


Also, the cost of not spending on rail and bus transit projects or their operating subsidies is at best a zero sum, you either spend there or you suffer economic damage elsewhere. Or you opt for the much worse alternative for major cities which is spending the amount you would have done on transit, instead on more roads and road maintenance. So at best it's a zero sum game, but more likely for major cities, the benefits of public transport are far greater than the overall cost. Public transport networks also account for less air pollution and road congestion. So everyone benefits.

Also, public transport systems are somewhat natural monopolies and economic theory that applies here has it that the subsidies involve are not inherently wasteful, they serve the purpose of improving access and capacity, as well as lowering fares, and the economic benefit is really very prevalent for the lower income groups so it's a pro-poor policy. One slightly off topic paper discusses this a little. You can find a lot of academic papers on the subject of the benefits of costly public transport.

But IMO the best case for them is to look at what other major cities around the world are doing, they are all following this model and are benefiting, even our neighbours are also following the same path. In a country where people complain about nothing being developed, why can't we be happy when a road network, a metrobus or a railway is built and runs successfully? People complained about the metrobus, now everyone wants one, and understandably so, I think the same will happen with the Orange line, despite high cost of rail.
 
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Cliftonite

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Next stop Islamabad and Peshawar.

Meanwhile Karachi will still be running on death trap metal buses in 2050.
 

Jungibaaz

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We all understand orange train is never make a sense a part of cpec route and what type of benefit will get it .only it politically benefit to nawaz and shahbaz in punjab election.
It has nothing to do with CPEC routes. CPEC projects are far, far more diverse and important than a route from Gwadar to Kashgar, most of the infrastructure spending is nothing to do with the route. You're complaining about this. Ever wondered what the dams and power projects have to do with a route? CPEC is not just some highway for trucks to drag race from South to North, it is a huge portfolio of projects that includes trade networks, local public transport and railways, energy and water infrastructure projects and industrial developments and initiatives.

I wish people would learn about CPEC before passing such misguided judgement, you can start here to clear any misconception:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-china-economic-corridor-details-and-implications.372408/
 

xyx007

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It has nothing to do with CPEC routes. CPEC projects are far, far more diverse and important than a route from Gwadar to Kashgar, most of the infrastructure spending is nothing to do with the route. You're complaining about this. Ever wondered what the dams and power projects have to do with a route? CPEC is not just some highway for trucks to drag race from South to North, it is a huge portfolio of projects that includes trade networks, local public transport and railways, energy and water infrastructure projects and industrial developments and initiatives.

I wish people would learn about CPEC before passing such misguided judgement, you can start here to clear any misconception:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-china-economic-corridor-details-and-implications.372408/
It has nothing to do with CPEC routes. CPEC projects are far, far more diverse and important than a route from Gwadar to Kashgar, most of the infrastructure spending is nothing to do with the route. You're complaining about this. Ever wondered what the dams and power projects have to do with a route? CPEC is not just some highway for trucks to drag race from South to North, it is a huge portfolio of projects that includes trade networks, local public transport and railways, energy and water infrastructure projects and industrial developments and initiatives.

I wish people would learn about CPEC before passing such misguided judgement, you can start here to clear any misconception:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-china-economic-corridor-details-and-implications.372408/
It is was initially harvested for political gain but as the new Gov set new political tradition by successfully completing the projects of the previous governments and did not let any project falling victim to political differences. We all as pakistani appreciated it help our local people.
 

Jungibaaz

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It is was initially harvested for political gain but as the new Gov set new political tradition by successfully completing the projects of the previous governments and did not let any project falling victim to political differences. We all as pakistani appreciated it help our local people.
That's your takeaway and/or counterargument? Credit goes to the current government for completing it and not politicizing it? Come on. 🤦‍♂️

Well, as long as we recognize the benefits of such projects and aren't needlessly disparaging them, then fine, I can't complain.
 

xyx007

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That's your takeaway and/or counterargument? Credit goes to the current government for completing it and not politicizing it? Come on. 🤦‍♂️

Well, as long as we recognize the benefits of such projects and aren't needlessly disparaging them, then fine, I can't complain.
:yahoo:
I am not Ayaz Sadiq later my wording enjoy by the enemy. Pakistan hai to hum hain.
 

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