• Friday, January 24, 2020

Pakistanis say- NO Indian in them

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by Ali.009, Nov 27, 2008.

  1. Ali.009

    Ali.009 FULL MEMBER

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    President Asif Zardari caught many Indians and all Pakistanis by surprise when he made the strange and weird claim that “there was a Indian in every Pakistani”. Many thinking Pakistanis have spent the best part of the week searching for the Indian in them. Almost all have come empty handed on this internal sojourn.

    Why we created Pakistan? The Pakistan Ideology. ONT vs TNT. Expressing his views on Hindu-Muslim relations in the twentieth century Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah observed:

    Pakistanis love meat, and cannot survive without beef. Pakistanis hate urine, one drop will force them to change clothes and they dont’ drink it. Paksitanis bury their dead, marry sitting up and not walking about, dont kill their dauhgers at birth. Pakistanis hate idols, and shun pornographic movies. Pakistanis write right to left and are Perso-Arab in stock. They live in an unstratified society and there is no untouchability in their society. Pakistanis hunt and sacrifice animals on Eid. They pray to the same one diety. They don’t sing and and dance during worship and many dont sing at all.

    Pakistanis remember the 1 million lives lost in creating a country, and also rededicate ourselves to the fact that “Pakistan manzil nahin, Nishan e Manzil hai”. Thatmanzil was defined by Iqbal, Liaqat, Jinnah and many others who carry the banner in the land of the Crescent and Star. Despite some impediments we have not lost track of the “manzil“. Pakistan as it existed 5000 years ago.

    An Indian in every Pakistani? Wednesday, November 26, 2008 Shireen M Mazari The writer is a defence analyst

    Lack of formal education and sheer ignorance does not by definition imply an innate sense of stupidity. On the other hand, formal education in itself is no guarantee of an intelligent and rational human being - just look at the American leaders over the years! As for mental stability, that has little to do with formal education or education of any sort whatsoever. What is true is that leaders who are intelligent and not overwhelmed by a sense of their own greatness and the autocratic “I”, realise their limitations and seek guidance. That is why while many commentators attribute President Zardari’s bizarre pronouncements very charitably to a lack of information or knowledge, the reality is that there is an ominous design in it all. After all, he is surrounded by not only his sycophants but also the whole state machinery with its bureaucrats, intelligence networks and so on. So why do statements that damage the nation in the long run continue to pour forth from the present leadership? Does no one dare to advise the president, or does he see himself as all-knowing even as he is all-powerful? Or is the reality that his advice is actually linked to a US agenda targeting Pakistan? Whatever the case, let us see if a pattern can be traced in all his shenanigans, at least in the realm of foreign and security policies where he has managed to reduce us to a collective absurdity and a vile joke.

    First, there is suddenly a furore over a truncated map of Pakistan that is only now being examined by a wider Pakistani audience. But the reality is that the map first appeared in the US Armed Forces Journal in July 2006, written by a retired US intelligence officer, Ralph Peters and entitled, “Blood Borders”. Some of us had pointed out at that time that this was now part of the US agenda for the so-called “Greater or Broader Middle East Project”, but at that time few paid notice. This has been part of the problem here in Pakistan - we never see far enough ahead and now the US design is in the midst of being operationalised and we have a leadership that has come with a seeming commitment to aid this nefarious US design of destabilising Pakistan through increasing military incursions through the tribal belt and moving beyond - and we have already had that with the US attacks on Bannu - and multiple efforts to eventually roll back our nuclear capability.

    Now let us look at our own leadership’s antics. No one from the presidency has forcefully refuted US media claims that in September this year President Zardari gave the US a nod to continue predator attacks against Pakistan. Meanwhile, we had the “absurdity” of the president claiming that the US had not violated Pakistan’s sovereignty since only aerial attacks were being conducted! Then we had the farce of the parliamentary consensus resolution on terrorism which demanded the government take action against the predator attacks. The government has so far not moved an iota on any of the substantive demands of this resolution. Instead, to make us look even more ridiculous than we already were looking, our leadership hopes that Obama will stop the attacks. Have they looked up Obama’s statements and his potential secretary of state’s viewpoints?

    DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE HINDUS AND MUSLIMS



    Here is a Pakistani patriot arguing about the differences between the two nations:

    From any rational perspective, given the manner in which the US is behaving it is now a hostile if not an enemy state for us, but we have that strange minister of defence continuing to state that if the US stays here for three decades it will be good for Pakistan! Does he think we will survive in any viable form after three decades of bombings by the US and the retaliatory lethal and non-discriminatory suicide attacks against this nation? But then so many of the present leadership, in keeping with past tradition, have homes and rich setups abroad. So what do they care?

    Parallel to our continuous conceding of ground to the US, we are also now complying with the US agenda of establishing India as the regional hegemon. If we see no threat from India and we want a nuclear-free zone in South Asia, eventually we may have a declaration by this president that he hates nukes and we will renounce ours unilaterally - that is unless the US has created enough instability to seek a UN Security Council intervention regarding control of our nuclear assets! Yes, it may seen far-fetched to some, but look how so many unthinkable developments have hit us in a short space of time - beginning right from the present occupant of the presidency itself.

    So when President Zardari offers a “no-first use” (NFU) of nuclear weapons to India, there is a design behind it - a US design. The problem is we have short memories and have forgotten that India has actually reneged on its limited NFU declaration it had made earlier in its overt nuclear life! When India declared its strategic doctrine and stated its intent of using nuclear strikes against any WMD threat from anywhere, it effectively adopted a “first use” doctrine similar to that of the US.

    As for Pakistan, given our limited conventional capability, we cannot afford to remove the ambivalence we are maintaining regarding NFU. In this we are no different from the much mightier NATO. Is it not time for our security managers and strategists to inform the president that one does not bandy about NFU offers whimsically or because one hates the idea of nuclear weapons. No one loves nukes and no one loves war - apart from Mr Bush and the neocons - but there are realities that need to be considered; and one does not bandy about strategic doctrines simply as appeasement tools. Our declared posture of nuclear weapons as weapons of last resort and a deliberate ambivalence on NFU must not be compromised.

    As for the idea of a South Asian Nuclear Weapon Free Zone (NWFZ), it is the Indians who have always rejected the idea, just as they rejected the zero missile idea and now with India acquiring Missile Defence from the US, we cannot continue to support notions that we floated before May 1998. Of course, if the Indians had conceded to a NWFZ and renounced their grandiose nuclear weapon programmes, their fears regarding China (or so their pretext goes) could easily have been handled in a protocol attached to the treaty similar to the protocols attached to and an integral part of the Latin American NWFZ treaty - the Tlatelolco Treaty. But all that was in the past - as was the no-war pact which Pakistan kept pushing for with India. Now all that is truly feasible in the nuclear domain with India is joint nuclear power generation and an ongoing strategic dialogue to maintain the nuclear balance. But then that is not part of the nuclear agenda of the US. The US continues to seek a rollback of Pakistan’s nuclear programme as part of its long-term negative agenda towards Pakistan.

    As for the new, more so-called informed US media on Pakistan, it is high time they realised that our suspicions and hostility towards the US have nothing to do with illiteracy or Talibanisation - Jane Perlez’s analysis notwithstanding. Instead, it has everything to do with US policies towards Pakistan. It is that simple. But our greater issue is with our leadership that seems to be hand in glove with the US. After all, we can certainly counter the predator or the impending grim “Reaper” attacks now on the cards. When will our missiles prove their worth? Or, if our military feels insecure with a direct military response, how about more simple actions easier to accomplish? Here are some suggestions: halt the transit logistic supplies; suspend high-level diplomatic relations; opt out of the trilateral commission; reduce the number of US personnel in Pakistan; take back all the bases. That should be enough to send a resolute message of Pakistani intent to the US and its NATO allies.

    Finally, Mr President, I have searched intensely within myself to discover a little Indian within my Baloch, Punjabi, Seraiki and Pathan heritage, but all I see is an intense Pakistani, born in the sovereign state of Pakistan. For me India is as foreign a country as any other. Sorry Mr President, but you are wrong on this count too. Email: callstr@hotmail.com

    In early eleventh century Al-Biruni observed:

    He wrote:

    According to Beruni:

    Ironically the TNT originated as a result of the parochial writings of major Hindu leaders like Lal Lajpat Rai who were proclaiming that Hindus and Muslims were separate nations and the Muslims should be expunged from the land of the Hindus. When the Muslims saw that the Hindus were targeting them, the Muslims decided to act.

     
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  2. Captain03

    Captain03 SENIOR MEMBER

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    very well put together
    our president is an idiot
     
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  3. third eye

    third eye ELITE MEMBER

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    You have a confused President ?
     
  4. shrivatsa

    shrivatsa FULL MEMBER

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    ^^^^^^^^"yatha raja tatha praja" seems to be correct isntit
     
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  5. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 BANNED

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    Yes, Pakistanis have nothing of the Indian roots left in them.

    They were Indians for thousands of years, they are not now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2008
  6. haviZsultan

    haviZsultan PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    We have a retarded bastard for a president. Entire world knows this man.
     
  7. Awesome

    Awesome RETIRED

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    Be careful, the President might give all of us a hug.

    I've a feeling this President is going to dwarf the Bushisms. Zardariism.
     
  8. haviZsultan

    haviZsultan PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    I think this should'nt be based on the differences of Hindu and Muslim. I have always and always will be very clear on this one. We are brothers and sisters. There are hindus even in Pakistan and Quaid E Azam always wanted a secular Pakistan. This has been proven in several occasions and these speeches became iconic with our minorities. These speeches are still given by minority MP's to constantly remind us of our responsibility towards them.

    These are some of the speeches of Hazrat Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Great Quaid E Azam. I memorize all of them by heart ;):
    We must remember these words and when asked was formation of Pakistan necessary we must not say it was because hindus and muslims could not live together. We had after all been living together for years.

    I am offended by Zardaris comments because he simply insults our sacrifices for the Pakistan to be formed. To tell you the truth quite a few of our family members have been lost in India. The issue was not that Hindu-Muslim could not live together in harmony. The issue was the dogmatic and idiotic approach of the Indian leaders and their inability to understand and accommodate the wants and wishes of the muslim people and the inability of them to stop hindu fanatics from tearing our lives apart.Even as recent as 2003 and in 2007 each we lost one member of our family. Police throw the complainants in jail and when people go to courts they are told to go to Pakistan.

    The fact is we escaped Indian bias and discrimination and hatred that many Indian leaders felt for the muslim faith. This hatred was proven later in their brutal massacres of the muslims in Mumbai genocide and Gujrat genocide and the genocide that still goes on in Kashmir. Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang Dal and several fanatical hindu organizations make life difficult for the minorities today.

    Even I have gotten death threats from these hindu fanatics only and only because I am a muslim even if it is by name and my cousins sister in India was raped and killed and my cousin speaks of the horrors he suffered. Now because of their hatred for him they want to kill me! lol.

    So the reason stated for the formation of Pakistan should alwasy be Indian bias and inability to accomodate the wishes of muslims not that muslims and hindus cannot live together. We must not state this as the reason for the partition or everywhere we will be seen as an ignorant and foolish people. We have to explain in the best possible way what we suffered.

    Now I know this will be disputed by a few Indians who are unwilling to accept the truth but I would like to only tell them that it is very easy to be the majority and say that partition was unnecessary. You have failed to prove it was unnecessary and the various genocides of muslims stand as proof of it.

    The issue with Zardari is he is a pure idiot and has no Pakistani Nationalism in his blood. There is no Indian left in us. The Indian is dead and we threw that identity away when we came here. Our Pakistani identity comes first second and last.

    I honestly beleive a Nationalist Pakistani government is required to change things. The entire idea should be immense love and patriotism for Pakistan and the sole purpose of every Pakistani should be to ensure the prosperity unity and supremacy of the Greatest Nation ever born. People like me try to promote this nationalism and ensure that each and every Pakistani works for a better future for his people by investiung either time or money in developing Pakistan but people like Zardari that try to give us an identity other than the only one that matters are an insult to us.

    It is sad that these are the sort of leaders we select. Another thing is the difference between our reactions to situations. For example just today i read a horrible article by namely but actually the India funded newspaper dawn news which was implying that pakistanis were responsible for the mumbai attacks. It just proves how unloyal the people of Pakistan can be. Our reaction to any given situation is to blame our own. For example even the situation in FATA is often blamed on ISI (ISI funding tehreek e taliban) by our own journalists without any proof whatsoever. On the other hand Indias reactions are completely opposite. Always blaming a foreign source and surprisingly even though every blast or bullet fired in India is blamed on either Bangladesh or Pakistan the Indian public SOMEHOW tend to believe it!
     
  9. haviZsultan

    haviZsultan PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    I think this should'nt be based on the differences of Hindu and Muslim. I have always and always will be very clear on this one. We are brothers and sisters. There are hindus even in Pakistan and Quaid E Azam always wanted a secular Pakistan. This has been proven in several occasions and these speeches became iconic with our minorities. These speeches are still given by minority MP's to constantly remind us of our responsibility towards them.

    These are some of the speeches of Hazrat Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Great Quaid E Azam. I memorize all of them by heart ;):
    We must remember these words and when asked was formation of Pakistan necessary we must not say it was because hindus and muslims could not live together. We had after all been living together for years.

    I am offended by Zardaris comments because he simply insults our sacrifices for the Pakistan to be formed. To tell you the truth quite a few of our family members have been lost in India. The issue was not that Hindu-Muslim could not live together in harmony. The issue was the dogmatic and idiotic approach of the Indian leaders and their inability to understand and accommodate the wants and wishes of the muslim people and the inability of them to stop hindu fanatics from tearing our lives apart.Even as recent as 2003 and in 2007 each we lost one member of our family. Police throw the complainants in jail and when people go to courts they are told to go to Pakistan.

    The fact is we escaped Indian bias and discrimination and hatred that many Indian leaders felt for the muslim faith. This hatred was proven later in their brutal massacres of the muslims in Mumbai genocide and Gujrat genocide and the genocide that still goes on in Kashmir. Shiv Sena, RSS, Bajrang Dal and several fanatical hindu organizations make life difficult for the minorities today.

    Even I have gotten death threats from these hindu fanatics only and only because I am a muslim even if it is by name and my cousins sister in India was raped and killed and my cousin speaks of the horrors he suffered. Now because of their hatred for him they want to kill me! lol.

    So the reason stated for the formation of Pakistan should alwasy be Indian bias and inability to accomodate the wishes of muslims not that muslims and hindus cannot live together. We must not state this as the reason for the partition or everywhere we will be seen as an ignorant and foolish people. We have to explain in the best possible way what we suffered.

    Now I know this will be disputed by a few Indians who are unwilling to accept the truth but I would like to only tell them that it is very easy to be the majority and say that partition was unnecessary. You have failed to prove it was unnecessary and the various genocides of muslims stand as proof of it.

    The issue with Zardari is he is a pure idiot and has no Pakistani Nationalism in his blood. There is no Indian left in us. The Indian is dead and we threw that identity away when we came here. Our Pakistani identity comes first second and last.

    I honestly beleive a Nationalist Pakistani government is required to change things. The entire idea should be immense love and patriotism for Pakistan and the sole purpose of every Pakistani should be to ensure the prosperity unity and supremacy of the Greatest Nation ever born. People like me try to promote this nationalism and ensure that each and every Pakistani works for a better future for his people by investiung either time or money in developing Pakistan but people like Zardari that try to give us an identity other than the only one that matters are an insult to us.

    It is sad that these are the sort of leaders we select. Another thing is the difference between our reactions to situations. For example just today i read a horrible article by namely but actually the India funded newspaper dawn news which was implying that pakistanis were responsible for the mumbai attacks. It just proves how unloyal the people of Pakistan can be. Our reaction to any given situation is to blame our own. For example even the situation in FATA is often blamed on ISI (ISI funding tehreek e taliban) by our own journalists without any proof whatsoever. On the other hand Indias reactions are completely opposite. Always blaming a foreign source and surprisingly even though every blast or bullet fired in India is blamed on either Bangladesh or Pakistan the Indian public SOMEHOW tend to believe it!
     
  10. Nihat

    Nihat FULL MEMBER

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    Oh , thank God - I was getting very worried !!
     
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  11. haviZsultan

    haviZsultan PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Me too... :agree:
     
  12. haviZsultan

    haviZsultan PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    He just might send us to the asmaan if he hears. Afterall he is the shoher of a person whose father threatened to break the tangey of everyone who would go to security council. :agree:

    Asim might i ask a question?

    Why was a sweet, cute person like jana shah banned from this forum?
     
  13. Chanakya.10

    Chanakya.10 BANNED

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    Rupee News :rofl::rofl::disagree:

    Best reliable source of knowledge for paranoid people...... Good Good carry on........
     
  14. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 BANNED

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    ^^ The biggest trash site out there.
     
  15. su-47

    su-47 SENIOR MEMBER

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    If pakistanis had a bit of indian in them and vice versa, there would have been no partition.

    Indians and pakistanis maybe similar in many aspects, but there are a few ideological differences that sets us worlds apart.

    On a personal note, i have searched my soul for my 'Pakistanism' after Zardari's declaration, but couldn't find any. I'm all for peace between both countries, but as an indian, i don't see anything 'pakistani' about myself.

    No offence to my pak brothers. as the article suggests, most pakistanis don't feel there is an india inside them. same case with indians.