• Tuesday, May 23, 2017

Pakistanis and Indians Are Not The Same

Discussion in 'Social & Current Events' started by ADT, Mar 3, 2010.

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  1. ADT

    ADT BANNED

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    I quite often hear alot of talk that Pakistanis and Indians are of same origins. I have heard this from Pakistanis, Indians and from others. I am not entirely sure how this gained such widespread popularity but this identity destruction of Pakistanis and Indians needs end. Whether it may be propaganda to assert dominance over another group or whether it may be to end hostility between these two countries it is just false and misleading.

    This belief centers around the fact that the British Raj (British India Empire) controlled Pakistani territories before the nation of Pakistan was formed. But what most people do not realize is that the British Raj controlled Pakistani territories for only 89 years. These 89 years of rule does not negate the fact that for thousands of years Pakistani territories have been ruled by Islamic Dynasties. These 89 years were the only years that there was no Islamic rule in Pakistan. Pakistan history dates back to before the Mughal Emipre (British Raj came after) where the first ruling dynasty of Pakistan was the Umayyad dynasty (second of the four Islamic Caliphates) who ruled all of the Middle East. They began rule in Pakistani territories 29 years after Prophet Muhammed's death and did not rule in India. After them were other Islamic dynasties including the Sayyid Dynasity who were descendents of Prophet Muhammed. Pakistani rulers were mostly of the origins of Arabic, Persian, with Turkic. Hence the official language of Pakistan is Urdu which is a dialect of Arabic, Persian, and Turkic.

    There has been influx of individuals who came from other countries including India and this tends to distort identities of Pakistanis. But the majority of Pakistanis who are are "true blood" Pakistanis meaning that for generations upon generations they have lived in Pakistani territories under various rule. Pakistanis are originally of Arab descent as well as the Iranians. One of the main reason Pakistan and Iran are not considered Arab Nations is due to the national languages not being Arabic and their customs are different.

    These are the facts that make Pakistanis and Indians different from each other.

    :usflag::pakistan:
     
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  2. third eye

    third eye ELITE MEMBER

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    Can we not have this 'who ruled where' coz this is the fastest way for a thread to become a flame bait.

    As regards the highlighted part above, The period from 1716 to 1799 was a highly turbulent time politically and militarily in the Punjab. This was caused by the overall decline of the Mughal Empire. This left a power vacuum that was eventually filled by the Sikhs in the late 18th century, after fighting off local Mughal remnants and allied Rajput leaders, Afghans, and occasionally hostile Punjabi Muslims who sided with other Muslim forces. Sikh warlords eventually formed their own independent Sikh administrative regions (misls), which were united in large part by Ranjit Singh.

    The Sikh Empire (from 1801-1849) was formed on the foundations of the Punjabi Army by Maharaja Ranjit Singh. The Empire extended from Khyber Pass in the west, to Kashmir in the north, to Sindh in the south, and Tibet in the east. The main geographical footprint of the empire was the Punjab. This was before the ' 89' years and includes large parts of what now is Pakistan, Lahore being the capital.

    Suggest we verify facts before posting.

    On the subject of the topic. We were one once, not any more. We were once only because we lived on the same land, shared the same soil, water, festivals and fought together against common enemies.

    Not sure how the Mojahirs will take this ' true blood' point of view. Nations do not have differentiations among its citizens based on their blood line. That way,none of the people living in US & Aus ( less aborigines) would qualify .
     
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  3. MilesTogo

    MilesTogo SENIOR MEMBER

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    Read this -
    http://www.tariqrahman.net/language/Modernity%20and Languages in Islam.htm

    http://www.urdustudies.com/pdf/21/06Rahman.pdf

    Except for Arabic, there is no special language of Islam. However, a language
    used by a community of Muslims can become the language of
    Islam and of Muslim identity in a specific time period and region. With the
    advent of modernity, Urdu, a language of North Indian origin, became
    such a language with political, social, educational, economic and cultural
    consequences. It became part of (ashrāf) Muslim identity replacing Persian
    which occupied that position earlier. It became a symbol of the
    Muslim political identity next only to Islam itself during the struggle for
    the creation of Pakistan out of British India. Then, in Pakistan, it became a
    part of the Pakistani (as opposed to the ethno-nationalist) and Muslim (as
    opposed to secular and Westernized) identity. In these roles it opposed
    the aspirations of the language-based ethnic élites on the horizontal
    (regional) level and that of the lower-middle classes for power on the
    vertical (socio-economic class) level. It also became a language of education,
    again divided along ideological and class lines: Urdu-medium
    schools and colleges being mostly for the lower-middle and middle
    classes and catering to right wing political and cultural views, while English caters mostly to the upper-middle and upper classes and liberal
    political and cultural views. In journalism too Urdu is associated with the
    rightóthe indigenous languages with ethnic nationalism and English with
    liberalism. Thus, in Pakistan, Islam is associated with Urdu in complex
    ways which express how identity is constructed with reference to new
    realities created by modernity. The Indian Muslim community also perceived
    Urdu as part of their collective identity. This makes it an antihegemonic,
    liberal force acting on behalf of pluralism and liberal democracy
    in India, while in Pakistan it is mostly seen as a symbol of the
    domination of the center over the provinces; that is, the hegemony of the
    Punjabis over other ethnic groups of the country and, generally, with
    right-wing, religious orientation. The association of Islam with language,
    then, is a complex, multi-dimensional and even contradictory phenomenon
    in Pakistan and North India


     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  4. ADT

    ADT BANNED

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    Do you get your information from Wikipedia? FYI Wikipedia is not accurate.

    I was looking up Sikh Empire and I was reading that from the Wikipeida page as your responses seem very similar if not exact to the entry in Wikipedia. I thought that Sikh empire had control of some parts of Pakistan and now I am unsure of how much of it and how much actual power they had as there were the Durrani Empire and remnants of the Mughal Empire.
     
  5. gubbi

    gubbi SENIOR MEMBER

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    Good luck with your pseudo-superiority complex! Now where do we remember this complex from? Oh wait - the Third Reich!!

    rofl at the underlined sentences.
     
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  6. ADT

    ADT BANNED

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    Why would that be pseudo-superiority complex? If the original people of Pakistan and Iran were Arab in origin?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  7. Valiant_Soul

    Valiant_Soul FULL MEMBER

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    To ADT


    If you are willing to talk about original ascendants, then you should also consider the fact that you are originally descendants of the present day Hindu sect because no civilization is older than the Aryans as no known literature work dates back as far as those created under the "Hindu" regime.
     
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  8. notsuperstitious

    notsuperstitious BANNED

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    This is the REAL two nation theory, hence no room for mojahirs and bengalis :)
     
  9. third eye

    third eye ELITE MEMBER

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    Check this out. Revert if more inputs are needed.

    http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&so...pb2MCw&usg=AFQjCNFiCWZf7NXlRpYqnlSQIfec8NfNJA
     
  10. ADT

    ADT BANNED

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  11. jinxeD_girl

    jinxeD_girl SENIOR MEMBER

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    When did Pakistanis became "Arabs"? Only a very small minority maybe... Don't link us with semitic people..
     
  12. ADT

    ADT BANNED

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    You are making an assumption without proof and there is no way you can provide proof that Pakistanis are this..
     
  13. third eye

    third eye ELITE MEMBER

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    Verify what has been posted on your own, should there be any differences you cud revert.
     
  14. Valiant_Soul

    Valiant_Soul FULL MEMBER

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    Why do Pakistanis in general have always to rely on proof for everything? Do you also require the proof that sun and moon are for real? Can you not use something called deductive logic?

    Islam evolved some 1400 years back and Hinduism (although no known time is known) is at least 5000 years old. So what can you deduce from that?
     
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  15. notsuperstitious

    notsuperstitious BANNED

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    Then use your own sources, but please share with us your sources.
     
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