• Thursday, November 23, 2017

Pakistani Senator calls for the development of an indigenous Nuclear Attack Submarine.

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by Horus, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

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    why dont pakistan lease the type 93 nuclear sub and order conventional variants of it and then install its own reactor in one of the subs?
    china can say it wont sell the reactor but would give a conventional subt o pakistan and pakistan can install its own reactor in it.
    so it would be like like 6 of the 8 subs would be a conventional s20 variants. and the final 2 would be the type 93 which one would be conventional and the other nuclear and but by that time mid 2020 youd order more .
     
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  2. 90ArsalanLeo

    90ArsalanLeo FULL MEMBER

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    How can u say this do u have any source of this information?
     
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  3. Optimistic & resolute

    Optimistic & resolute FULL MEMBER

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    Yes it does exist because i was offered a chance there but didn't avail to serve nation . For that repenting now sorry for that i preferred flying abroad
     
  4. 90ArsalanLeo

    90ArsalanLeo FULL MEMBER

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    India dreams of becoming a superpowers and bringing other superpowers like USA, China etc on their knees
     
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  5. schoolboy

    schoolboy FULL MEMBER

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    Good question. I suspect the reasons is that many potential Chinese cities that could be targets are quite a distance away from potential launchpads (Delhi - Beijing is 3800 km). For launch sites in south india the distance is probably 4500 km+. Until there is sufficient confidence in the later Agni series that are 4000 km+ range a submarine that can lie undetected for long periods of time near those targets would be ideal - only an SSBN fits that.
     
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  6. The Eagle

    The Eagle MODERATOR

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    Thanks for the tag Sir. I am not an expert in this area like you and many others though I can comment on the subject through different points of view while depending upon few developments, cooperation between countries, available options involving parties and that I read and See.

    Option 1 and 2 will be covered in these couple of paragraphs so IMO, no need to quote separately here.

    Starting with your Option-4 first.
    • Exactly, the first option than the 3rd. This option pretty much defines that how we need to start. As of now, the wheel is already invented and our friend is wholeheartedly open to us for the learning, experience and supports that if we go alone on such route, it is going to cost us high and time taking that as per current infrastructure, economical shape and threat assessment, we cannot opt for such. So, for the learning, experience and as a first step to handle such platform, PN-PLAN cooperation is very much needed as well as worthy of time. It has to be kept in mind that PN has also learnt a lot by operating different platforms and cooperation with West time to time but as stated, N thing is totally new experience and we are aware of limited access by West/US for us so no one but our dearest friend is standing with us and we trust each other. This option by leasing the sub actually grants the best chance to learn the equipment, understand the method as well as maintenance requirements and all operation learning. The core of N Sub is that having Reactor of such class in first place IMO so as said, we are already up-to that so no worries for a start of indigenization in future.


    Your Option 3
    • True that as this option comes as once we have a good experience to handle such equipment as discussed in above option that can lead us to have this capability by next. As said that our economics currently does allow such large expenditure to build something from scratch that too of such high class, we can start by having the heart, built by us and combine it with available material from friend, in the end to have our required Sub. We are aware that our political elite actually lacks the guts of such decisions under international diplomacy in first place and asking for totally homebuilt would be like giving them a heart attack. We have to keep in mind that current political status and constrains attached to our political government actually wouldn’t allow us to pursue such route of indigenous N-Sub so easily so we have to start by leasing first. As, unofficially, the cat of such reactor is already out of the bag so everyone is aware of situation and it tells that we only need a bit of economical support for total indigenous N-Sub in future that the time is also not far. Furthermore, Pakistan China contract of 8 subs includes that 4 will be built in China and remaining 4 in Pakistan that I see as, IMO, couple of those Subs are from unknown class however, the same is not subject here though, it is included in contract that Pakistani Personnel will be available in China during those build-ups and the few can understand that how such learning is going to help us in long term to make a team in this department for our future programs. The team present in China is not only for assembling learning but it is going to help us a lot to see, check and to have all the know how of required equipment and its quality along with quantity. I see that cooperation of both countries is going to help a lot the both friends. The sharing and learning is not a one way route but indeed, Pakistan will be sharing its expertise with China as well to help them mature their tech further as well.

    Also, a bit of interesting mention that while opting the indigenous route or having the access to the tech for our own Subs, there is still a possibility, that few areas can be supported from Turkiye as we see the capability/quality for up-grade of Augosta-90b so we have good connections in this subject that we can buy from a brother and friend to have an excellent class Sub. And, if imagination has to go in further wilderness with respect learning and having expertise from another country......well.. I have to stop here.

    Indeed, we are well aligned in this subject and I don’t see it too late but In’Sha’ALLAH soon as Babur-III as validated many things and highlighted the need to such platform to make sure that the capability is available by giving no time relaxation to the adversary. It is fact that such platform is not going be completed by overnight or like that as soon but one has to start by someday that will meet an end with success In’Sha’ALLAH.
     
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  7. Muhammad Omar

    Muhammad Omar ELITE MEMBER

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    Why not like these

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

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    Type 95 can be great option but picture I posted is concept of future Type 98 of China
     
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  9. Hassan Guy

    Hassan Guy SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes, like no babur SLCM until 2030?

    WILL try and succeed.

    Like Babur SLCM was not going to happen until 2030-32
     
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  10. EpiiC

    EpiiC FULL MEMBER

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    The real deal is SSBN/SLBM with 24 thermonuclear ICBM Mirved Missiles with 10 Mirv warhead so 24x10 240 warheads on this Sub would be ideal!!!
     
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  11. sparten

    sparten SENIOR MEMBER

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    No. 12-16 launch tubes for a Shaheen III type missile would be ideal and doable.
     
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  12. Hassan Guy

    Hassan Guy SENIOR MEMBER

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    Obviously the best option would be to build something similar to the french (considering we already operate Agosta-90b's)
    [​IMG]
    Even though the French SSBN's are lighter in displacement compared to American and Russian Subs, its still far to massive of a structure for Pakistan to build and operate.
    [​IMG]
    Obviously it would have to be scaled down compared to most SSBN's - but it would do the Job.
    Though developing a smaller SSBN is also a stretch for Pakistan and won't be easy.

    Also the SLBM would probably be a sea variant of the Shaheen series of Missiles and not an M51 ICBM.

    Even this sub would still be twice the displacement as our current Agosta's MINIMUM.
     
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  13. CriticalThought

    CriticalThought SENIOR MEMBER

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    Sir, the following points concern me:

    1. India's development of 5000+ km ballistic missile. Theoretically, such a missile could be mounted on a submarine. That means India's second strike capability can lurk thousands of kms away from our reach. On the other hand, our subs will be confined in a small area, thus giving India better chance to find and attack them.

    2. India's development of anti-ballistic missile technology in cooperation with Israel. I totally expect the India/Israel nexus to achieve the capability to locate ballistic missile launches within Pakistani territory as they happen. A ballistic missile launch is an 'event' and it create a huge trace that can be picked up by various means (radar, satellite, etc.) Any reasonable anti-ballistic system will seek to take the missile out of the picture at the earliest point. That means India's full might will be used against factories, storage silos, mobile vehicles, launch pads, and early stages of the missile while it is in Pakistani territory. In such a scenario, we need to develop extremely long range cruise missile technology that can be fired from subs thousands of miles away.
     
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  14. Muhammad Omar

    Muhammad Omar ELITE MEMBER

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    Type 95 can fulfill all the needs of Pakistan + it's gonna be cheaper then Type 98
     
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  15. Panther 57

    Panther 57 PROFESSIONAL

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    Nuclear weapon is also called as WMD it doesnot have to target factories and storage silos.

    On topic my comments 8-)
     
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