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Pakistani Navy going through a serious buildup

Titanium100

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Look brother every military tech that China have is not available for Pakistan is wrong concept of most of Pakistani people on PDF, Jin or Type-94 is their strategic weapon, how can they give it to Pakistan their most lethal weapon to Pakistan, first we have to gain experience of Nuke subs, its is better that we will gain it through SSN such as Han class instead of directly go for SSBN just like India did to gain experience through Russian/Soviet sole Akula class (INS Chackara) and also JL-3 is also useless for Pakistan, our enemy is in our next door or may be we like to target Israel we don't need ICBM on SSBN but MRBM or at best IRBM,

So getting a Jin/ Type 94 class SSBN from China has a 0% Chance for Pakistan
I agree with you here but i can see you have just turned from ban? Welcome back
 

White Lion

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Re: the submarines, I don't know if the MILDEN is available for outside partners. The Turks are approaching it like a super-secretive program. That said, STM did offer the PN the xTS1700 design, which was a proposal for the MILDEN. It's possible that there are discussions about customizing the xTS1700 for the PN as a next-gen SSP to replace the Agosta 90B (and further enlarge our fleet).
Though this article is by an Indian author but it shows the threat Italy or Turkey submarines might bring in case PN procures them either directly or under licence built.

Pakistan’s New Midget Submarine: Emerging Challenge to India in the Arabian Sea
What will Pakistan’s new indigenous midget submarine bring to its naval capabilities?
By Prakash Panneerselvam
April 29, 2020







This article is presented by
Diplomat Risk Intelligence, The Diplomat’s consulting and analysis division. Learn more here
Pakistan’s New Midget Submarine: Emerging Challenge to India in the Arabian Sea

Credit: Pakistan Navy Official Website (via Wikimedia Commons)ADVERTISEMENT

Pakistan’s submarine force is undergoing major modernization. In the last five years, Pakistan has inked two major submarine deals with China and Turkey to upgrade its submarine force.

In 2015, Pakistan approved the purchase of eight Hangor (Type 042 Yuan-class) submarines with a provision to construct four at Karachi Shipyard with a possible Transfer of Technology (ToT) from China.

Subsequently, in 2016, Pakistan awarded the Agosta 90B Submarine Modernization Project worth $350 million to Turkey-based weapon manufacturer STM. Interestingly, this was the first time Pakistan has selected a Turkish company as the prime contractor for a submarine project. Under this project, STM will be exporting design and engineering services to the Pakistan Navy.

The submarine deals with China and Turkey are expected to be a major game changer for the Pakistan Navy. Along with that, Pakistan is now focusing on building new midget submarines for its Navy.

Pakistan’s Special Service Group (Navy) has been using the Cosmos MG110 midget for overt and covert operations. These submarines have been in service from the early 1990s and are nearing the end of their service lives.

In order to replace these aging submarines, Pakistan has proposed to build a new midget submarine. In the Ministry of Defense Production (MoDP) Year Book 2015–2016, Pakistan listed the development and construction of a midget submarine as a target for 2017–2018. The MoDP documents have also mentioned that midget submarine project will be based on indigenous design and production.

Notably, a recent satellite image (Figure 1) confirms that Pakistan might have indigenously developed a new midget submarine as it proposed in the MoDP 2015–2016.

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From 2016 on, one can see the submarine partially covered in a tent in. Since 2019, the submarine can be seen in open view, suggesting that the construction is near completion and that sea trials may have commenced.

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The new midget submarine, which is compact in size, is leading to speculation regarding its possible role in the Arabian Sea and in combat.


Figure 1 –Satellite imagery shows an MG 110 Submarine docked in Karachi Port along with a domestically built new midget submarine. Source: Google Earth, DOI: 18/12/2019 (24°50’3.74″N, 66°58’14.23″E)

Figure 2 – The image shows the fully constructed hull of a new midget submarine at Karachi Port Source: Google Earth, DOI: 2/11/2018 (24°50’3.74″N, 66°58’14.23″E)
Image Analysis

The midget submarine as seen from the satellite images has a length of around 55 feet (16.7 m) and a beam measurement of around 8 feet (2.43 m). The vessel’s displacement is currently unknown.

The prominent vertical rudder, propeller, and the round-shaped nose are visible from the shadow of the midget submarine. The snorkel is not visible in the image. But it is clear from the image that the submarine appears to be larger than the Swimmer Delivery Vehicle (SDV) and slightly smaller than the MG110 midget submarines.

The compact size of the submarine with simple hull constructions suggests that it is easy to operate and maintain. The vessel can likely be transported over land due to its size. The defense expert H. I. Sutton writes in Forbes that the submarine design is new and doesn’t appear to be an imported one.

Given the present level of cooperation between Pakistan and Turkey, one cannot rule out the possibility of a Turkish firm’s involvement in the development of new midget submarines. In an interview in 2019, Murat İkinci, the general manager of STM, confirmed that the “Pakistan Navy and STM are currently discussing new projects, including serious and dedicated works for midget submarines.” However, there are no official sources to confirm that the new midget submarine has been codeveloped with Turkey.

A Role for the Midget Submarine

The Pakistan has been using new midget submarines for many years now. The development of a new midget submarine not only showcases its indigenous capability, but also shows that Pakistan is prepping its underwater warfare capability.

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As Pakistan continues to lay emphasis on a sea denial strategy there is a possibility that it may use the midget submarine in an offensive role during any conflict with India in the coming months and years.

The seaward defense of Karachi has been one of the major challenges for the Pakistan Navy since the 1971 war with India. The midget submarine would fill a gap in protecting Karachi Port from sea-based attack. Most importantly, it would replace the current MG110s in service with the SSG (Navy) for operations such as frogmen operations, laying mines, and so on.

Also, with the Agosta 90B submarines undergoing midlife upgrades and modernization, scheduled to join the Pakistan Navy in 2020, and first four Hangor submarines stated to be delivered in 2023, the Pakistan Navy would find a significant increase in its ability to execute an anti-access and area-denial (A2/AD) posture in the Indian Ocean. Along with that, the new midget submarine would upgrade Pakistan’s underwater warfare capabilities in a significant way.

In short, the changeover in the Pakistan submarine force could pose a real security threat to India in the Arabian Sea. Given India’s preparedness to develop a credible anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability, Pakistan’s new midget submarine can challenge India’s maritime operations in the Arabian Sea.

Besides, Pakistan might use the new midget submarine to expand its clandestine operations off the western Coast of India, particularly around Gujarat’s Sir Creek area and Mumbai.

Hence, it’s essential that India strengthen its subsurface detection and track capability to thwart any Pakistan anti-access capability in the Arabian Sea and to protect India’s maritime security interests in the region.

Prakash Panneerselvam, Ph.D, is an Assistant Professor at the National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS) in Benagluru, India.


https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/pak...erging-challenge-to-india-in-the-arabian-sea/
 

Zarvan

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I won’t be happy unless we order 4 more frigates and get destroyers as well.

- Zarvan
What Pakistan needs is surface and submarine to ground capability. We need heavy Frigates and Destroyers along with Submarines with each having dozens of VLS to carry long range cruise missiles which can hit deep inside enemy territory. We also need missiles 1800 to 2400 KM range cruise missiles.

1623456590805.png

French FREMM Frigate
1623456651519.png


A 26 Oceanic Extended Range

1623456693402.png


We should have at least 8 such ships with 8 such submarines.
 

Scorpiooo

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JFT sqr belong PAF, the equip
So the C802 antiship missiles on JFT are for shooting ducks on lakes?
The last tranche of mirages bought new from France (1978-79) which I believe were VPA3 config; having Agave radar & Exocet missiles were bought out of PN budget. They equipped No 8 sqn of PAF. They were never under PN command but their primary role was maritime strike and always based at Masroor. Currently the primary maritime strike sqn in No 2 with JF17/C802 missiles. No 8 sqn is no longer equipped with Exocets. They only carry REK bombs and will moat probably be the first mirage sqn to transition either to J10 or JF17s.
Thanks for sharing, but those JFT are ownership of PAF and are in support role for PN.

These is stronge possibilities that we will see dedicated purchase for PN or split of asset
 

Titanium100

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What Pakistan needs is surface and submarine to ground capability. We need heavy Frigates and Destroyers along with Submarines with each having dozens of VLS to carry long range cruise missiles which can hit deep inside enemy territory. We also need missiles 1800 to 2400 KM range cruise missiles.

View attachment 752620
French FREMM Frigate
View attachment 752622

A 26 Oceanic Extended Range

View attachment 752623

We should have at least 8 such ships with 8 such submarines.
PK is already interested in Milden and I think that one is way superior. A sub killer sub it will be a beast in the waters
 
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The best and cheapest option if we can is to buy two SSBN's from China. You have the Jin class submarine also known as "Type 094". The "Type 094" can carry 12 JL-2s. "is a Chinese second-generation intercontinental-range submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM)". The JL-2 has a maximum range of 7200 km. It is MIRV capable. It also has a single megaton blast yield. Can have smaller blast yield in MIRV. The unit cost is 750 million USD. So two Type 094's should cost Pakistan 1.5 bilion USD. Maybe little higher.

Here is a picture of the JL-2's range if fired close from Pakistan's coast. It is launched between Pasni and Ormara.

View attachment 751958 b

Another option not available right now would be the "Type 096". The "Type 096 would be China's equilavent to Americas "Ohio-class submarine". The Type 096 would be able to carry 24 JL-3 SLBM. Not only will it carry twice the amount of ICBM's, but the range of JL-3 will be far longer. According to most sources the JL-3 will have a maximum range of 12000 km. Two Type 096 will in total carry 48 JL-3 ICBM's. Twice that of two type 094 with also far longer range as mentioned earlier. Two Type 096 equipped with JL-3 would be far better for PN rather than 2 Type 094 with JL-2. China is part of the MTCR so it cant export missiles beyond the range of 300 km. But I am sure Pakistan and China can find a "way".

Here you can see the range of the JL-3. Also launched between Pasni and Ormara.

View attachment 751963
That thing looks quite awesome to be fairly honest due to the range being significiant. PN should go for that and add it into the shopping cart
 

Titanium100

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Turkey begins construction of 4th Ada-class corvette for Pakistan

JUN 16, 2021 2:25 PM GMT+3



The steel cutting ceremony for the fourth Turkey-made corvette tailored for Pakistan’s navy was held in the southern port city of Karachi Tuesday.

The ceremony at the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works – Pakistan Navy's specialized shipbuilding division – was attended by Pakistan Navy chief Adm. Amjad Khan Niazi, Esad Akgün, the chief executive officer of Turkey's state-run defense firm ASFAT, and other senior officials from both countries.

In July 2018, the Pakistan Navy signed a contract for the acquisition of four MILGEM (National Ship) Ada class ships with Turkish state-owned defense firm ASFAT.

According to the plan, two corvettes will be built in Turkey and the other two in Pakistan, which will also include technology transfer.

Addressing the ceremony, Niazi hailed ASFAT for achieving this milestone despite the global impacts of the coronavirus pandemic.



He praised the cooperation of the Pakistan Navy, ASFAT, Karachi Shipyard and the Defense Production Ministry for the construction of the warships.

The navy chief also thanked Ankara for its assistance and cooperation in the defense and security fields.

Niazi said that Tuesday's event is a defining moment to further cement the bond of friendship between the two strategically aligned nations with common shared values, culture and principles.

These corvettes will be fitted with the state-of-art surface, sub-surface and anti-air weapons and sensors, integrated through an advanced network central combat management system.

"The induction of MILGEM Corvettes will significantly enhance maritime defense and deterrence capabilities of the Pakistan Navy. These corvettes will become a core element of Pakistan Navy's kinetic response to traditional and nontraditional challenges and to maintain the balance of power in the Indian Ocean Region," said a statement from the Pakistan Navy.

'Deep-rooted brotherhood'
Akgün, in his remarks, said that with the groundbreaking of the fourth corvette, the project is entering a phase of constructing all four ships at the same time.

Despite the setbacks of the pandemic, he said, ASFAT is doing "everything humanly possible to complete the project on time and in budget."

Briefing on the ongoing MILGEM project, he said the production and installation of some 32 blocks on the slipway have been completed, both in Karachi and Istanbul.

Of these 32 blocks, he went on to say, 23 were produced and installed in Istanbul, while the remaining nine in Karachi.

Another 14 blocks have been produced in Turkey, and are ready to be installed, he added.

Some 38 blocks are under construction in Pakistan.

A total of 1,600 tons of steel, he further said, have been processed.

"With 19 shipments, more than 2,000 documents, 145 containers and almost 3,800 tons of material and equipment have been sent to Karachi," he said.

"Every event (like this) is another steel plate welded to our brotherhood roots," Akgün said.

State-of-the-art vessels
MILGEM vessels are 99 meters (325 feet) long with a displacement capacity of 24,00 tons and can move at a speed of 29 nautical miles.

MILGEM anti-submarine combat frigates, which can be hidden from the radar, will further enhance the defense capability of the Pakistan Navy.

In October 2019, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan along with the then Pakistan Navy Chief Adm. Zafar Mahmood Abbasi had cut the first metal plate of the first MILGEM Ada-class corvette during a ceremony in Istanbul.

Turkey is one of only 10 countries in the world that can design, build and maintain warships using its national capabilities.

 

araz

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Thread Topic: Pakistan Naval build up.

Discussions: MKI detected J20. IK called Modi but he didn't respond.

@waz @HRK
Typical trolling. They destroy threads by bringing in off topic discussions and people feed them because thwy feel they will win against them. Posters ahould realize this is done with a specific agenda to bring you to a topic of their choice so they can go on ad nauseum and people keep responding to them.
Please do not feed him and see how long he lasts.
A
 

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