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Featured Pakistani Navy confirms Brazilian jetliner will replace Orion patrol aircraft

Taimoor Khan

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On 10 January 2020, the Pakistan Navy (PN) released a tender for one twin-engine jet-powered aircraft it will use as a platform for its next-generation long-range maritime patrol aircraft (LRMPA).
In its documentation, the PN outlined that it requires the aircraft to fall within the following parameters:
  • Maximum Take-Off Weight (MTOW): 120,000 lbs to 140,000 lbs
  • Ferry Range: 4,000+ nautical miles
  • Total Length: 120 ft or less
  • Wingspan: 112 ft or less
  • Maximum Take-Off/Landing Distance: 7,000 ft
  • Service Ceiling: 40,000 ft to 50,000 ft
The PN wants bidders to offer aircraft in a clean configuration, i.e., ‘as-is’ if the aircraft is a passenger or a VIP/executive transport. Moreover, the aircraft “should have no design deviations from the OEM specified basic configuration and should conform to OEM’s original structural design.”
The aircraft “should be suitable for subsequent modification as LRMP” capable of the following missions:
  • Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR)
  • Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW)
  • Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
  • Airborne Early Warning (AEW)
The LRMPA configuration will also be able to support secondary roles, including asymmetrical threats or challenges, search-and-rescue, training, and transport.

Interesting. That ferry range is beyond what Indian threat domain is. We are talking about proper Indian ocean surveillance, beyond Arabian sea.


range.jpg
 

monitor

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Embracer li
There may be a few reasons for the conversion being overseas.

E.g., the contractor may share some of the cost of doing it so they can re-market it to other customers (like Sea Eagle). In this case, the PN gets to split the cost with someone else instead of taking it alone.

The other factor may be that working with a company in Germany or UK could make it easier to get Embraer's help. Some bilateral deal with Embraer and PAC or NRDI could be a lot tougher to pass through some countries. So if the US knocks on Germany's door about the Lineage LRMPA, Germany can say, "well our company's doing it, and it's our business, so tough."

Finally, we also just lack the capacity to do it properly at home. You still need an established design and controls testing (@JamD) regime to carry out the work indigenously.

I think the complexity of a full-fledged LRMPA is much more than an AEW&C or ECM aircraft because you have to integrate (and test) hard points and maybe cut an internal bay. There aren't a lot of countries that can do it, and we really only have one other serviceable example of this type in the world -- the P-8. The Lineage LRMPA would be the second one if it succeeds.
Pakistan get the best bang for buck if it can properly utilised what it intent for . India is paying 300 million per aircraft for their last 6
P-8I posedion .
As Embracer lineage 1000 has almost same. Dimension as P-8 posedion how much anti ship & anti submarines weapons it can carry any idea ? Can it carry the same amount of sonar bouy missile mine as p-8 ?
 

Yasser76

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Pakistan get the best bang for buck if it can properly utilised what it intent for . India is paying 300 million per aircraft for their last 6
P-8I posedion .
As Embracer lineage 1000 has almost same. Dimension as P-8 how much anti ship & anti submarines weapons it can carry any idea ? Can it carry the same amount of sonar bouy missile mine as p-8 ?
With a aircraft that size should be able to carry 4 external missiles plus anything they can fit in a weapons bay.

Much will depend on how we strengthen airframe and cut open the bottom to install an internal bay.


This is very exciting as this will be the only jet LRMPA other then P-8. Others may follow lead here, especially nations that do not want to alternative to US products like Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia and Myanmar
 

CrazyZ

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With a aircraft that size should be able to carry 4 external missiles plus anything they can fit in a weapons bay.

Much will depend on how we strengthen airframe and cut open the bottom to install an internal bay.


This is very exciting as this will be the only jet LRMPA other then P-8. Others may follow lead here, especially nations that do not want to alternative to US products like Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia and Myanmar
I'd love to see Sea Sultan have the ability to launch anti-ship loitering munitions, or be a mothership for naval warfare drones. Going in house allows us to integrate in advanced features that export versions of P-8 lack. :pop:
 

CrazyZ

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Which Chinese aircraft is in this class? Remember they are not buying an MPA simply an airframe.
I largely agree. The Indians have been barking to buy Embraer for about a month...probably expected this deal might occur. Brazil will nationalize Embraer before they would sell it to foreigners. They wouldn't sell it to Boeing for more money why would they sell to India for less. According to this article:

Embraer said that “there are no plans to sell the commercial aviation unit or any other business area. The company is open to discussing growth partnerships aimed at specific projects or insertion in markets ”.
 
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CrazyZ

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Err...

Good choice in the sense that PN can equip it in the manner it see fit (customization factor).


The fastest...


Refer to following post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/brea...fense-systems-to-taiwan.689200/#post-12773240

Hypersonics for ASW missions? Expensive and water will create problems. Hypersonics are better suited for engaging ships. For submarines, proven technologies are affordable and recommended.

Choosing P8 class is not a mistake by any stretch of imagination:





It is rather difficult for Pakistan to source these aircraft in the present, therefore, alternatives will do.
Better to put MAD sensors on a group of drones controlled by the patrol AC. Can cover much more area.
 

Yasser76

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I largely agree. The Indians have been barking to buy Embraer for about a month...probably expected this deal might occur. Brazil will nationalize Embraer before they would sell it to foreigners. They wouldn't sell it to Boeing for more money why would they sell to India for less. According to this article:

Embraer said that “there are no plans to sell the commercial aviation unit or any other business area. The company is open to discussing growth partnerships aimed at specific projects or insertion in markets ”.

If COMAC allows partial local production in Pakistan...then PN should consider using there jets IMO.
Issue with COMAC jets is quality. Only Chinese state airlines are using them and it is being pushed down their throats by Chinese government. They will improve but a few years off. Also Pakistan cannot order enough to justify and entire airplane assembly line.


If this project goes smoothly it has potential to be a win/win. Embraer can float a P-8 alternative within the market and highlight use by Pakistan Navy. PN/PAC get a lot of experiance with systems integration and of course can easily support the bird in country.
 

Taimoor Khan

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If Pakistan develops an ASBM...Any surface ship in the western Indian Ocean can be easily targeted.
I just used the very basic facts like if ferry range requirements are 4k plus nautical miles (7400 kms), you are looking beyond Arabian sea into Indian ocean. American Diego Garcia base well within the range of surveillance and otherwise. India is not the only threat now since America and India formalise their military alliance. PN must/should expand its threat domain.


diego.jpg
 

CrazyZ

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I just used the very basic facts like if ferry range requirements are 4k plus nautical miles (7400 kms), you are looking beyond Arabian sea into Indian ocean. American Diego Garcia base well within the range of surveillance and otherwise. India is not the only threat now since America and India formalise their military alliance. PN must/should expand its threat domain.


View attachment 683426
Better to be neutral against USN unless no other option is left.

IN is our top foe. With ASBM, loitering anti ship munitions and naval warfare drones we cause huge losses for Indian surface ships in the western Indian Ocean. Indian posters will keep going on about how much larger their surface navy is and how it will control the Indian ocean region.......but warfare has changed. Indian surface ships will last as long as Armenian tanks. If China is willing to share real time satellite data with us..similar to BECA. Then we can hit ships in the eastern Indian ocean....if we want to expand our threat domain.
 
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denel

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This is like a few months ago when people "confirmed" C-130J and AH-1Z deliveries right!?
:) ---- same folks are deciphering two burners in skies equating them to jh-7 or j15s. ganja can do that. man they got an entire forum of smokers believing in various hallucination. it is beyond believe what they are coming up up. dont forget f-16 blk70!
 

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