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Tank131

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The only ITAR free choppers are russian, chinese or S African (but rooivalk is no longer in production and Rooivalk 2 may never come to fruition).

Chinese gunship has been tested and for some reason the PA was not apparently satisfied with its performance (maybe underpowered). Regardless they seemed to prefer Atak.

I think the only gunship on offer from Russia is the Mi-35. Those are really more assault choppers than actual attack helis and are very large and easy targets.

The Atak i think is worth waiting for. PA should be pushing for the Turks to develop and integrate the TS1400 regardless of whether the US approves the sale of their engines, and get them changed out as soon as the turkish engine meets the standards required. From what i understand it is not far from being ready.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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The only ITAR free choppers are russian, chinese or S African (but rooivalk is no longer in production and Rooivalk 2 may never come to fruition).

Chinese gunship has been tested and for some reason the PA was not apparently satisfied with its performance (maybe underpowered). Regardless they seemed to prefer Atak.

I think the only gunship on offer from Russia is the Mi-35. Those are really more assault choppers than actual attack helis and are very large and easy targets.

The Atak i think is worth waiting for. PA should be pushing for the Turks to develop and integrate the TS1400 regardless of whether the US approves the sale of their engines, and get them changed out as soon as the turkish engine meets the standards required. From what i understand it is not far from being ready.
The Rooivalk/2 is a no-go due to its French engine and transmission.

The only way to make the Rooivalk/2 a non-ITAR -- and non-French -- alternative is to change its critical inputs. It may be doable with Ukrainian stuff, but ultimately, I suspect one would need to develop a new transmission for it.

Right now, the only clean-sheet ITAR-free and West-free attack helicopter project on offer to Pakistan is from Turkey. We have the option to sign onto the T629 and/or TS1400-equipped ATAK. It's up to us, but it will take patience to get to that point.

I think the Army will, in all likelihood, take shorter routes moving forward by simply buying equipment from China. For one reason or another, in-house development and original projects haven't worked well for the Army.

So, the next route is using China's economies-of-scale and lower costs to buy modern equipment in large numbers. The bottleneck is our monetary situation -- can we afford importing? If the economy starts looking serviceable over the next 3-5 years, then perhaps. If not, the Army will likely make due with what it has, just as it's been doing since 2010.

The only exception to this rule may be aviation because the lead managing entity for this is the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). If the Army is convinced the PAF (via PAC/AvRID) can manage an attack helicopter project with Turkey, then maybe, we have a shot. It's worth remembering that the ATAK-2 is an option for a heavyweight Apache/Mi-28-type helicopter, so that could interest the Army.
 

Caprxl

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Did anyone ever check with TAI expertise?
Could it be ???

I checked wiki & saw Turkish Naval Forces use ATR 72 & CASA CN-235 both originating from Italy & Spain respectively BUT there is a catch; the ATRs are being Upgraded by TAI. So maybe, TAI can also be looked if what Wiki has stated is correct.

Note: According to Quwa, in 2016 Turkey herself was looking for a LRMPA & P8 was the only option they could fit in the size & category laid by Turk Navy.

That is all I could gather, do not know what is the latest MPA/LRMPA fleet of Turkey is.
 

Ahmet Pasha

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Could've picked a better name tbh.
For example Trident, Sea Serpent, Sea Spray, Maelstrom, Vortex, Sea Vortex, etc.

But overall a good choice with the E jet platform. KC390 and Embraer major stake next??(please say yes).



Bro you have struck a very sensitive string. Ufff

Property dealer/uncle minded/paindoo Generals/Brigadiers. Who shouldn't have been heading HIT/POF. Yasoob trucks were ruined by a different gang entirely. It's cuz they're interested only in DHA plots and not making money for their country. To cover their faults their go to is " Oh we'll just get it from Himalya se oonchi and Samadron se gehri, Our plastic brother China".

These duma55 uncles need to watch some Ertugrul. Especially ones in HIT and POF(slightly better but not what it can be).

For POF: Jo log darre me jaali asla bana kar bech rae hain. Un k liye aik AutoCAD/3D printing course/apprenticeship shuru kro. Aur unki expertise utilise kro. We can make our product with less labor cost at home sans some overhead from initial equipment/tooling. We need to capture rest of the world and 3rd world market share if gora nations won't buy anything from us.

After oil and small other things. Big defence deals are keeping Russia afloat. Or at least helping out it's economy immensely. After every one or two years you hear about an Arab or Soviet bloc or African nation buying/upgrading or repairing their platforms from Russia. Average deal 1-2 billion. Sweat equity!

Aaahhh but HIT and POF dont work like profit making corporations.
^^^^^
Agar aise hi khisyane bahane banane hain to phir FDI ko na kosa kro baith kar Pakistanio!
For one reason or another, in-house development and original projects haven't worked well for the Army.
Embraer already makes ASW called P-99 / R-99,



So why not just go with that and if needed get your own electronics installed.
I think it will raise too many eyebrows. Slow and steady won't irk the big fish. Also Lineage1000 if gently used 2nd hand would be a lot cheaper.
 
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Incog_nito

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Will these 10 MPAs be based on new Aircrafts or used ones?
Can these P-3Cs be converted into strike platforms for PAF?
 

Ali_Baba

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It is an existing design and given the cost, local production of an airliner makes no sense.

Having the same platform for use as a LRMP, future AEW&C, Intelligence/Signit, and for the HASOVJ programme would make a lot of sense.. but, there is nothing to suggest there is such joined up thinking between the PA, PAF and PN.
 

Jf-17 block 3

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Is it possible that we can convert our retiring p-3c Orion’s into bombers or something for PAF?

Those bombers can be useful against terrorists, Afghanistan and India if they have stand off weapons.
 
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Is it possible that we can convert our retiring p-3c Orion’s into bombers or something for PAF?

Those bombers can be useful against terrorists, Afghanistan and India if they have stand off weapons.
Na too slow for bomber and we don't need a bombers, if we have Multirole jets like F-16/JFT and Strike jets Mirage-3/5, bombers are obsolete idea for India/Pakistan war scenarios but its quite possible that P3C will convert into special mission aircraft like (ECM/ECCM/JAMING/EW) aircraft
 

Shabi1

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It is an existing design and given the cost, local production of an airliner makes no sense.

Having the same platform for use as a LRMP, future AEW&C, Intelligence/Signit, and for the HASOVJ programme would make a lot of sense.. but, there is nothing to suggest there is such joined up thinking between the PA, PAF and PN.
It was tried before when PAF hoped PIA would choose Saab-2000, but they chose ATR instead as their Fokker replacement.
A possibility again now since PIA needs narrow body jets.
 

Yasser76

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It was tried before when PAF hoped PIA would choose Saab-2000, but they chose ATR instead as their Fokker replacement.
A possibility again now since PIA needs narrow body jets.

It will always be difficult, airlines will have different priorities than armed forces (like say fuel economy over endurance, or passenger weight over short take off performance etc etc), PN getting ATR was step in the right direction and PIA has fleet of 11 of these and maintanence and training facilities near coast at Karachi Airport
 

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